Best Drivers...?

[Super Hans]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Magnusson

The very defenition of uninspiring for many.

Exactly.

Though I hear Yvan Muller is planning to walk in the sand and be nice to his wife in an effort to improve lap times.

[werner]

ROFL!

[stedevil]

Originally Posted by werner

ROFL!

+1 Hans! You are hurting my stomach

[helterskelter]

On the other hand, walking on the beach and having a great family led Priaulx to beating everyone for 4 years in a row, which nobody ever managed to do before.
But I can understand you, you only know how it feels to be outside the car. You try to be in a BMW, fighting for an european championship and having Thompson putting pressure on you for a whole race, with a faster car and with 50° air temperature. In those situations, details make you win, which is why Priaulx manages to win when put under pressure. Because he has that serenity and that focus that enable him to do what he does. If you don't understand this, you don't even conceive the concept of 'Super Champion' or however you may want to call it, so this thread is useless. With this thread I just wanted to talk about how do I judge a driver when rating him. Not only raw talent, but technique and personality, ability to face the pressure and so on. If you look at this sport with numbers to judge someone's performances, you're missing half the beauty of it, IMO. Hans, very nice joke, you made me laugh a lot, but I hope we'll meet again here in 3 years' time, to see if Yvan managed to do what Andy did. Then we'll see who's going to make the jokes out of professional drivers who know how to do their job much better than we do...

[Super Hans]

Originally Posted by helterskelter

On the other hand, walking on the beach and having a great family led Priaulx to beating everyone for 4 years in a row, which nobody ever managed to do before.

I'd put his acheivements down to his talent, his hard work and his intelligence. Plus he is peerless at reading a race. A happy, relaxed family life helps support this, but it isn't the be-all and end-all.

Originally Posted by helterskelter

But I can understand you, you only know how it feels to be outside the car. You try to be in a BMW, fighting for an european championship and having Thompson putting pressure on you for a whole race, with a faster car and with 50° air temperature.

I'm aware that I myself am not a competitor in the WTCC, but I'm as entitled to my opinion as you are.

Originally Posted by helterskelter

In those situations, details make you win, which is why Priaulx manages to win when put under pressure. Because he has that serenity and that focus that enable him to do what he does.

He has made mistakes when under pressure. Witness Brands 2006. This proves that like all drivers, he is only human, not a superman.

Originally Posted by helterskelter

If you don't understand this, you don't even conceive the concept of 'Super Champion' or however you may want to call it. So this thread is useless.

I've never claimed to understand the concept of 'Super Champion'. Though from what you're saying a 'Super Champion' is a champion who you like personally.

Originally Posted by helterskelter

With this thread I just wanted to talk about how do I judge a driver when rating him. Not only raw talent, but technique and personality, ability to face the pressure and so on. If you look at this sport with numbers to judge someone's performances, you're missing half the beauty of it, IMO.

I don't judge the performances by numbers, I judge the performances by the performances.

Originally Posted by helterskelter

Hans, very nice joke, you made me laugh a lot, but I hope we'll meet again here in 3 years' time, to see if Yvan managed to do what Andy did. Then we'll see who's going to make the jokes out of professional drivers who know how to do their job much better than we do...

I was making a joke about Andy Priaulx, I was making a light-hearted post about your comments in this thread.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by helterskelter

On the other hand, walking on the beach and having a great family led Priaulx to beating everyone for 4 years in a row, which nobody ever managed to do before.

Do you honestly think walks on the beach are the reason behind Priaulx winning championships. Or is it more of a case that in those seasons, the driver/car package was quicker and more consistent than any other?

Does that mean that every driver in the Andros Trophy is a hell-raising womaniser?

Was Andy Rouse surrounded by criminals and violent drunks when he took his BTCC titles?

Seriously, this thread has become 'My favourite driver is... and so as a result I want to rewrite the english language to accomodate the words I want to portray'.

Is it time for a poll? Who is your favourite TC driver, and who is the best role-model for the sport? Combine this with a poll of who is the most succesful driver, and we'll have our 'Ten-tenths Super-champion'

[Super Hans]

I walk my dog on the beach every weekend and neither myself or my dog have achieved motorsport success on Priaulx's scale.

There must be something else to it...

[werner]

You should consider entering some form of dogrelated sports. You know, that you have to let your dog run through tunnels and slalomming between cones.

[stedevil]

Agility
But maybe he also need to marry the dog?

[werner]

What also should help is to speak German. I know a guy who did, and he became F1-world champion 7 times!

[helterskelter]

Ok, you're all very nice and a laugh is welcome. But when it comes to serious things, you should read Andy's biography: this is not my opinion, it's HIS opinion and I think he knows best. He claims that everytime he has to go to Macau to fight for the World Championship he takes a walk on the beach in Guernsey, absorbs the inspiring nature and feels the sand between his toes. When in the car, in Macau, he goes back to that feeling, feels more relaxed and ready to do his job, which he always did, when he had the chance to. But I know from your endless experience as a Wtcc driver that this is just crap...
But seriously, let's take F1 as an example: do you think that Jones and Prost, who both won the championship, were the same kind of driver and you should rate them the same way because they are both champions? I believe Prost had something special that Jones did not have.
Talking to Priaulx, reading what he wrote and knowing his story, I believe that certain things made him who he is, not just raw talent but deep preparation for everything he does. Have you ever heard about Andy Priaulx Performance Management? Sign up for its mailing list and you'll know why I say these things. And you can even make fun of these methods, but that's what led people like Senna and Priaulx become who they have become. Did you know, for instance, that Priaulx visualizes himself going through a corner hundreds of times, does many laps of a track in his mind weeks before the race or the test, so that when he goes on track he can drive automatically, without thinking about it, because he's done it so many times? That's why he can 'read' the races better than the others, because his mind is free to concentrate on something else than just driving. If you want to, laugh at it and laugh at this thread. Priaulx and his fans like me have been laughing for 4 years in a row...

[Jimmy Magnusson]

The word "fanboy" comes to mind.

[Super Hans]

Originally Posted by helterskelter

He claims that everytime he has to go to Macau to fight for the World Championship he takes a walk on the beach in Guernsey, absorbs the inspiring nature and feels the sand between his toes. When in the car, in Macau, he goes back to that feeling, feels more relaxed and ready to do his job, which he always did, when he had the chance to.

This is quite a common psychological technique. As is visualisation.

[Dani Filth]

visualisation is an old technique .. just ask any alpine skier, bobsleigh or luge runner

[werner]

If you have a chance, try to watch the top-gear 'winterolimpics'-special. Hammond does a run with the bobsleigh, and you can see the steeringman preparing himself for the run. It's magical to see the focus of a professional athlete about to perform.

[helterskelter]

Yet, I know no Wtcc driver who applies this technique. And about the walks on the sand, when I said that Priaulx did it everyone picked on me, and now it turns out that it's a common technique. Is that something to joke about or a serious and well recognized technique? Make up your mind

[Dani Filth]

walking on sand is overrated big time .. walking on water on the other hand ..

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by helterskelter

Yet, I know no Wtcc driver who applies this technique. And about the walks on the sand, when I said that Priaulx did it everyone picked on me, and now it turns out that it's a common technique. Is that something to joke about or a serious and well recognized technique? Make up your mind

If you mean walking on sand is a common technique, then what about drivers who don't live near the coast. Do they need to find a local childcare centre and walk through their sandpit?

If you mean visualising situations as a technique, then every driver who has practised a corner will probably have visualised their ideal line etc.

Military training sometimes involves repetition and ingraining of scenarios, with the objective being that when in a real situation, your actions will become 'natural'.
Priaulx obviously finds this mindset works well for him. It doesn't mean he's a 'super-champion' because he walks on the sand, or even because he visualises situations. It is just one factor that contributes towards him being as successful as he has.

You say that Muller is not a 'super-champion' in your eyes, yet he has achieved things in ice-racing that no other driver has. Is it because you don't like Muller as a person? Do you feel that because his lifestyle is different to Priaulx then he shouldn't recieve the same praise that Priaulx does?

I think most people on this forum respect the achievements of both Priaulx and Muller and most will have their own preferred driver. These preferences may arise from many different factors. Nationality, Team, Car etc.

What people need to respect though is that while I may prefer a particular driver because of the town they were born in, others might prefer a driver because they drive a certain marque. You obviously prefer Priaulx because of his personality and character, others may prefer Muller because they feel he is a more rounded driver who adapts to different race formats.

[helterskelter]

I never said I don't respect Muller as a driver or his fans: in fact, I would like to have the same respect as a Priaulx fan, but you made fun of his methods and of what I believe in and live my racing life (and sometimes everyday life) according to it. Sandwalking is not the point! The point is that he takes deep inspiration from it. It could also be standing in a forest, looking at a sunset or whatever, just the importance that he gives to the mind approach and how much all of his life relates to racing. And visualising is not about thinking of a corner and its ideal line, but practicing the whole lap in your head hundreds of times before you get into the car. That's the total preparation and the dedication that shocked me. If you look at his autobiography, apart from talking to him, you will realise that there are dozens of such practices that make him who he is. What I meant by opening this topic is that there are a lot of good drivers, some very good drivers, very few special drivers, and to me Priaulx is one of them. Yes, visualisation and sandwalking are two factors, but take all the factors, put them together and you will have what makes him special. My opinion, though. As for the ice racing, I don't know much about them but we're talking about touring cars, or I could mention that Priaulx has been the official test driver for Williams in 2005, when only one test was planned, but he shocked them so much that they kept him for that year. Also, I don't know anything about the level in ice racing, so I can't express an opinion as I don't have enough knowledge to have one.
As for the lifestyle, yes, I think it is important to gain the praises: the driver has to be a human being, not act like a superman or as if he were the master of the world just because he's in a racing car and you're not. Priaulx deserves more praises because he won more titles and yet he's such a humble erson, Muller is the opposite. On the other hand, I repeat for the 50th time, he is an absolutely worthy world champion, he deserved the title and is in the olympu of the great drivers in the history; only, IMO, he's not the best.
I like the personality of many other drivers, yet I prefer Priaulx above all, for his story and his technique, and everyone should respect my opinion, because I completely respect yours, I respect everyone's opinion, I worth them as much as mine. After all, we're here to discuss and get to know each other's ideas, not to make fun of each other.

[Super Hans]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

If you mean walking on sand is a common technique, then what about drivers who don't live near the coast. Do they need to find a local childcare centre and walk through their sandpit?

It's not walking in the sand per se, but putting yourself in a relaxed environment (the beach, a lake, your back garden...) and committing every feeling and sensation to memory, so that you can bring it to mind before a stressful event (an exam, an interview, a motor race...) to help achieve relaxation and focus. I imagine it's part of a lot of sportsmen's armoury.

[awrb]

Have you read Mullers autobiography? Do you know his entire story. I don't think people are making fun of Priaulx's techinques here, just the fact that you seem to find them so special. I guess most drivers in the WTCC, and indeed most people in the world, have a spot where they like to relax and clear their heads. I think most drivers will visualise the race before the weekend. From reading Priaulxs book you have gained some knowledge on how he prepares, which has made a good impression on you. But without reading books by other drivers, for example, you will not know how they prepare. And Priaulxs techniques have worked wonders for him, but if Muller did the same, it may not help. Everyone needs to prepare in their own way, not someone else's.

[helterskelter]

I'd never heard of anything like this before and when I asked Muller about his preparation he relied to me about gym time, running and biking... True, everyone needs to prepare their own way, but Priaulx's seems to be the most effective and the most preparing to the 'under pressure' moments, IMO. As simple as that. No need to make fun of walking on the sand and so on. Anyway, that everyone does that is your opinion, Priaulx doing it is a fact. I hope his wins are explainable by this super preparation, because otherwise we have to call Area 51 to check if he's a human...

[Super Hans]

Originally Posted by helterskelter

I hope his wins are explainable by this super preparation, because otherwise we have to call Area 51 to check if he's a human...

His acheivements are explainable by a variety of factors, preparation being just one, hard work, talent and intelligence being others. Not to mention the fact that he drives a good car and has a good team around him.

[awrb]

Originally Posted by helterskelter

when I asked Muller about his preparation he relied to me about gym time, running and biking

So Muller does have preparation. Maybe he finds riding a bike clears his head, in the same way a walk on the beach might.

No need to make fun of walking on the sand and so on.

I don't think people were making fun of walking on sand. If I didn't live in Birmingham, an hour drive to the nearest beach, which is horrible, I would go for walks on the beach. It would not make me more successful in life. It would just be nice.

Anyway, that everyone does that is your opinion, Priaulx doing it is a fact

I like to listen to music for a few minutes to clear my head, or take a walk in my local area. I don't count it as preparation as such, because i'm not preparing for anything in particular, just relaxing. Are you saying you never just take time for yourself? I think you'll find most if not all successful sports people will do something. Like Muller, however, they may not make a big deal out of it.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by helterskelter

I hope his wins are explainable by this super preparation, because otherwise we have to call Area 51 to check if he's a human...

Can you explain how relaxing and visualization are 'super preperation'?

http://www.essortment.com/all/easyrelaxation_rggv.htm

A quick search for Priaulx's magic secret will reveal an abundance of sources and reference to millions of people who utilise these methods. It doesn't mean they're the best method, just one way that works for Priaulx.

Because Muller chooses to use a different method, doesn't make him any less worthy a champion in my eyes.