First Lap 1985

The Snout · 25 Aug 2003, 00:52 (Ref:697851)

Thing I like about forums is being able to ask questions about long ago and finally maybe get an answer.

Bathurst 1985, into the first corner Walkinshaw led Johnson in the Mustang. Yet going up Mountain Straight Johnson dropped to 5th or something. I assumed that he missed a gear, can anyone confirm or knows what happened ?

Not important but one of those long lost mysteries I wondered about.

RRR · 25 Aug 2003, 05:30 (Ref:697928)

Dick did have a problem going up Mountain straight. It might have been gear selection problems, but I'm not entirely sure. One thing is for sure though is that those Jaguars were mighty fast up the hill, which could also be an answer to your question.

Check out one of the Great Race books for confirmation ...

rdmdog · 25 Aug 2003, 06:30 (Ref:697956)

Would you believe that up until four days ago I had a copy of the '85 book next to my computer here at work, for research purposes on another matter, but Ive taken it home for safe keeping. If I remember Ill take a look and see what it says.

Outright engine power may have had something to do with it, of course Im sure no-one would bring an illegal car here from Europe

racer69 · 25 Aug 2003, 07:49 (Ref:697983)

I'm not entirely sure the Johnson/Perkins Ford had a problem up Mountain straight that first lap.

The Mustang wasn't very fast in a straight line, and the cars that passed it up the hill was the V12 Jag of Jeff Allam/Ron Dickson and the Volvo turbo of Robbie Francevic/John Bowe, two cars which were very fast in a straight line (Grice may also have got him before Griffins as well, have to check the tape)

Crash Test · 25 Aug 2003, 11:23 (Ref:698152)

Don't forget that a couple of cars down the pack had a barney half way up the straight and finished in the fence. Was one Alf Grant?

William Dale Jr · 25 Aug 2003, 11:32 (Ref:698162)

Yep, Alf Grant / John French and Peter Fitzgerald / Brad Jones ended up in the barriers on the inside of Mountain Straight just out of Hell Corner.

racer69 · 25 Aug 2003, 12:12 (Ref:698204)

It was quite a first lap that year. Brock and Goss went side by side over Skyline and through the esses on lap 1, and John Harvey got caught up with someone and had to pit at the end of lap 1.

The Snout · 25 Aug 2003, 22:03 (Ref:698724)

I think Allam, Francevic and Grice all got Johnson going up mountain straight (I'm doing this from memory). I can believe the Volvo Turbo and Jag getting him but Grice as well hmmm, the 'stang qualified 3rd so it wasn't that slow. Might have to hunt down a book some time.

rdmdog · 26 Aug 2003, 01:29 (Ref:698906)

Had a look at The Great Race book last night, no reason was given for the lack of performance off the start, this could mean a combination of less HP and maybe even a missed gear (Getrag?) although it would be hard to get a driver to admit that

.

Did the car have a camera inside or was that in '86? you never know that tape maybe hidden somewhere and would tell the story well?

ANYONE, ANYONE?

The Snout · 26 Aug 2003, 03:36 (Ref:698968)

Yeah he had an incar cam. Remember the smoke inside when he broke a oil cooler not far into the race and he had smoke inside.

Conrod Kieron · 26 Aug 2003, 05:43 (Ref:698994)

The Mustang was never a very powerful car, i'd be surprised if it got close to the Holden V8 on power output. Still, it had more grunt than the 635 Bimmer, everyone should remember the friendly wave from Richo Snr as Johnson outdragged him up Mt Straight.

Where the little 'Stang did excel though was its handling/braking.

GROUPA · 26 Aug 2003, 06:39 (Ref:699011)

The only reason why the BMW 635csi was out dragged it was not allowed to use the 24 valve M6 motor it was homologated with.
Just like the M3's were not allowed to run abs, electronic spoilers & splitters

**GTRMagic** · 26 Aug 2003, 07:15 (Ref:699040)

The M6 engine wasnt an option in Group A, in Group C they were able to use the M6 24 valve motor because it was homologated that way under a 'Group 5' classification in Europe.

A good 635Csi evolution motor (i.e. late 1986) made at best 340bhp... bulletproof reliable, fuel efficient, tractable... but not powerful. The M3 produced more than that in the 2.5 Batmobile specification

GROUPA · 26 Aug 2003, 07:23 (Ref:699048)

So why was the M3 not allowed to run at the homologated spec?
Abs, electronic spoilers, spiltters etc...

PS If the 2 JPS 635's did not spin into the sand at Hell Corner do you think they would have won (Longhurst & Richards not Crichton and I think Ludwig Finuear)

**GTRMagic** · 26 Aug 2003, 07:39 (Ref:699064)

The homologated spec for the evo2 M3 with the watercooled ABS, movable front splitters, and the really high rear wings were used in the DTM spec of the same car. All pooh poohed in Group 'A'. Beautifully designed and built cars though. Wonder if they had a pendulum fitted?

In 1985, Jim Richards and George Fury spun off on the same patch of oil and bogged in the sand. The Richards car had the consistency and enough pace to win, had it not spun, would have certainly finished in front of the Schnitzer Bob Jane T-Marts 635, and would likely have picked off John Goss' ailing Jaguar as well.

The Fury car, shared with Croaky was doing well but not as well as the lead car, so wouldnt have made a similar impression.

A shame for the JPS BMW boys, they never really could take a trick despite a lot of money and loads of effort.

racer69 · 26 Aug 2003, 11:21 (Ref:699250)

On the BMW, it and the Mustang seemed to have similiar straight-line speed. When Johnson and Richards went side-by-side up Mountain straight, on conrod straight the lap before Richards had pulled out and passed Johnson on pace.

The Schnitzer BMW ran with an engine problem all day which affected it's pace. It had a very poor start. If it was running properly, chances are that, coupled with the Goss/Hahne Jags broken seat, the Ravaglia/Cecotto car would have been in there with a shout.

There weren't many cars that ran trouble free in '85, a proper endurance race

MHDT · 26 Aug 2003, 23:38 (Ref:700134)

Quote:

Originally posted by rdmdog
Had a look at The Great Race book last night, no reason was given for the lack of performance off the start, this could mean a combination of less HP and maybe even a missed gear (Getrag?) although it would be hard to get a driver to admit that .

Having a look at Big Bill's Book, the opening sequence of the first lap doesn't provide much information, except that the Mustang lost two or so places by the time they arrived at Murray's.

But I did like the picture of the Bathurst Suzanne store, home of the "Dick Johnson Fan Club", and the XB GT Greens Tuff 'replica'.

GROUPA · 27 Aug 2003, 01:18 (Ref:700181)

A shame for the JPS BMW boys, they never really could take a trick despite a lot of money and loads of effort.

They did win ATCC and AMSCAR from memory.

By the way GTR...what happended to Ludwig Fineuar????

**GTRMagic** · 27 Aug 2003, 01:27 (Ref:700190)

Ludwig 'Goofy' Finauer ended up as a milko in Berry NSW. Thats what an article in Motor Racing Australia suggested anyway.

Ludwig did some engine work for BM Conversions on the side, but it seems a waste of a BMW-Motorsport trained talent that a Supercar team never picked him up

RaceTime · 27 Aug 2003, 01:27 (Ref:700191)

Didn't his name crop up recently here? Seem to recall seeing about something happening in Syd or Bris (but then again my memory is starting to fade with age

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