Women in Circuit Racing

[NaBUru38]

Last June I started this Wikipedia article (you are invited to translate it . There are so few relevant women in motorsport that I listed pretty much all of them.

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

Why dont a mod move this to a more general section as I think it would bring in more comment. We do have some decent women drivers overhere who may like to chip in.

Some time ago I asked for a general forum, to discuss general things like new circuits and subjects like this. It seems that it didn't gain echo.

[Dasher]

Originally Posted by Rob29

See also other thread with same title with 645 posts in National & club racing forum.Guess this one was meant to relate to Aussies? Try wife of Garth Tander who was at one time reckoned to be his equal?

As I have said before Rob29, unfortunately albeit that Leanne is a very good steerer in her own right, she has always fallen short for one reason or another in winning a Championship of her own.

I have never seen or read the suggested comparison mentioned by you and I am sure if it was said or written, that it was with TIC, she's not even close to being his equal.

And the thread was for a world wide opinion not just Aussies.

[Abbie44]

Just thought id add a comment here being a female racing driver myself.

I believe, as others have also said that the fact a female hasn't won any high championships is due to numbers. The percentage of female racing drivers to males is obviously small due to the general interest of motor racing being from guys, and I feel females are not given the same opportunity as males to achieve such goals. An example of this is Susie Stoddart in DTM, when she first went into the championship she had an older car, so was immediately on the back foot.

However I also believe that quite a few of female drivers are there just to be a 'racing driver' and don't actually have the genuine drive, determination and passion to make a real success of themselves.

But I know of a few young females that are easily equal and sometimes better than most males out there.

I myself aim to be a works driver in either V8 supercars or DTM, which given the right backing and opportunities I feel i have the talent to prove myself.

[275 GTB-4]

Originally Posted by Abbie44

Just thought id add a comment here being a female racing driver myself.

I believe, as others have also said that the fact a female hasn't won any high championships is due to numbers. The percentage of female racing drivers to males is obviously small due to the general interest of motor racing being from guys, and I feel females are not given the same opportunity as males to achieve such goals. An example of this is Susie Stoddart in DTM, when she first went into the championship she had an older car, so was immediately on the back foot.

However I also believe that quite a few of female drivers are there just to be a 'racing driver' and don't actually have the genuine drive, determination and passion to make a real success of themselves.

But I know of a few young females that are easily equal and sometimes better than most males out there.

I myself aim to be a works driver in either V8 supercars or DTM, which given the right backing and opportunities I feel i have the talent to prove myself.

Hi Abbie,

Let me wish you all the very best towards achieving your dreams...

Its not so much about gender...but its all about cash, who you know, marketability (at the top level) and pure unadulterated luck!!

[Reload]

Originally Posted by 275 GTB-4

Hi Abbie,

Let me wish you all the very best towards achieving your dreams...

Its not so much about gender...but its all about cash, who you know, marketability (at the top level) and pure unadulterated luck!!

Danica Patrick ticks all those boxes !
Can i throw skill, talent and killer instinct into your requirements.

[TWRv12]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

Last June I started this Wikipedia article (you are invited to translate it . There are so few relevant women in motorsport that I listed pretty much all of them.


Some time ago I asked for a general forum, to discuss general things like new circuits and subjects like this. It seems that it didn't gain echo.

I've no spanish, but aren't you missing a female F1 principle, F1 steward and some rather famous motorsport engineers?

[formerf1champ]

Originally Posted by ForumNick

Well... 221 posts in... that should exclude you from expressing an opinion on this subject!!!

Who's expressing an opinion? I was asking a question. If it were my opinion, I think it's been backed up a little with...

Originally Posted by Abbie44

However I also believe that quite a few of female drivers are there just to be a 'racing driver' and don't actually have the genuine drive, determination and passion to make a real success of themselves.

OK, it is my opinion.

Originally Posted by Rob29

Try wife of Garth Tander who was at one time reckoned to be his equal?

Maybe Leanne thought this, nobody else.

[Dasher]

Originally Posted by TWRv12

I've no spanish, but aren't you missing a female F1 principle, F1 steward and some rather famous motorsport engineers?

With all due respect TWRv12, WTF does your reply mean, I have NFI ?

[Dasher]

Originally Posted by Abbie44

But I know of a few young females that are easily equal and sometimes better than most males out there.

I myself aim to be a works driver in either V8 supercars or DTM, which given the right backing and opportunities I feel i have the talent to prove myself.

Hi Abbie44, I wish you all the very best to be the FIRST female to win a Major Motor Racing Championship & DTM would qualify if that's your intended series.

If you know of some talented females including yourself as you claim, name them so we can keep an eye on their progress or lack of it as the case may be?

Numbers certainly do favor the male drivers, but in over 150 years of Worldwide racing there hasn't ever been even 1 female to accomplish this task despite their huge advantages over the males in marketability.

Danica is one example of this, albeit a very talented driver she has the complete package that any potential sponsor would drool over (I know I do, LOL) but at the end of the day she cant cut the mustard.

The question to ALL you female drivers is WHY ?

[porsche91722]

Originally Posted by Dasher

................The question to ALL you female drivers is WHY ?

I guess the simple answer is..... they are not good enough!
That is not meant to be a sexist remark, although I am sure it will be taken as such, by some. I think it may already have been mentioned here earlier on in the piece, but there are some things that blokes can do better than girls and vice versa, and one of them is motorsport. Plain and simple. It requires plenty of controlled aggression, strength, patience and big balls.
Now for the sexist comment..... they should stick to being good wives.
W. washing
I. ironing
F. ........ ...food
E. entertainment

[dsg]

Originally Posted by Dasher

Numbers certainly do favor the male drivers, but in over 150 years of Worldwide racing there hasn't ever been even 1 female to accomplish this task despite their huge advantages over the males in marketability.

I don't think 2nd part of this statement is true Dasher. In terms of a female drivers' marketability, I believe the sponsors select looks then talent, whereas the reverse is true for male drivers.

[bestfit]

Originally Posted by Dasher

Numbers certainly do favor the male drivers, but in over 150 years of Worldwide racing there hasn't ever been even 1 female to accomplish this task despite their huge advantages over the males in marketability.

Makes it hard, for the first 40 years they had nothing to race in.

[Rob29]

Originally Posted by bestfit

Makes it hard, for the first 40 years they had nothing to race in.

Guess he meant 115 yrs?
900+ posts and nearly 10yrs of this forum and we still get the same sexist coment.

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by TWRv12

I've no spanish, but aren't you missing a female F1 principle, F1 steward and some rather famous motorsport engineers?

Sorry, I was talking about drivers. Obviously the sections about non-drivers are very short. I don't know where to find information about those you mention. Would you give me their names? Good luck!

[TWRv12]

Originally Posted by Dasher

With all due respect TWRv12, WTF does your reply mean, I have NFI ?

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

Sorry, I was talking about drivers. Obviously the sections about non-drivers are very short. I don't know where to find information about those you mention. Would you give me their names? Good luck!

Sorry I was a bit vague, just trying to add to the debate.

• Monisha Kaltenborn, F1’s first female team principal, Sauber
• Leena Gade (Audi LM winner) and Teena Gade (Prodrive/MiniWRC)
• Chief Aerodynamicist for Formula One’s Team Lotus, Marianne Hinson
• Frederique Trouvé has been the manager of the FIA GT, Touring Car and Truck Racing Commissions since 2001
• SILVIA BELLOT, F1’s youngest, and only female, race steward
• FIA’s Head of Medical Affairs, Sandra Silveira Camargo.
  

See the 'This is Women's Work' article in the latest issue of the FIA's InMotion magazine.
http://www.fia.com/en-GB/Documents/InMotion-DEC2011.pdf

Sandra Silveira is in August edition
http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre...tion_home.aspx

The is at least one technician in V8SC too, can't think of her name at the moment.

Also worth a mention are some really good Motorport media women.

[speedreader]

Originally Posted by dsg
I don't think 2nd part of this statement is true Dasher. In terms of a female drivers' marketability, I believe the sponsors select looks then talent, whereas the reverse is true for male drivers.

Agree 100% with this statement plus the marketability only happens once an 'attractive' female has made it to a relatively high level of the sport. It is a lot harder to prove yourself at the start when you are in the minority.

Also agree with an earlier comment re numbers. For every female out there trying to give it a go there are literally 100's of males doing the same thing so the law of averages says any talent that rises to the top is more likely to be a man.

Do wish more females would stand up & show some promise though, add's another element to the sport...

[W.A Trichlorostyrene]

Originally Posted by TWRv12

Sorry I was a bit vague, just trying to add to the debate.

• Monisha Kaltenborn, F1’s first female team principal, Sauber
• Leena Gade (Audi LM winner) and Teena Gade (Prodrive/MiniWRC)
• Chief Aerodynamicist for Formula One’s Team Lotus, Marianne Hinson
• Frederique Trouvé has been the manager of the FIA GT, Touring Car and Truck Racing Commissions since 2001
• SILVIA BELLOT, F1’s youngest, and only female, race steward
• FIA’s Head of Medical Affairs, Sandra Silveira Camargo.

Just to add to this list... N.Technology had a female team manager when they were in charge of the works Alfa Romeo entries in WTCC. Monica Sibbs, IIRC.

There used to be a female aerodynamicist working in F1 in the early 2000 at Minardi and Williams. She was one of the guilties for the famous sharknose on the 2004 Williams, IIRC

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by W.A Trichlorostyrene

[/LIST] Just to add to this list... N.Technology had a female team manager when they were in charge of the works Alfa Romeo entries in WTCC. Monica Sibbs, IIRC.

There used to be a female aerodynamicist working in F1 in the early 2000 at Minardi and Williams. She was one of the guilties for the famous sharknose on the 2004 Williams, IIRC

I think the N technology team boss was Monica Sipsz.

I can't remember the name of the Williams aerodynamicist but I thought someone said she was working at Fondmetal with the wind tunnel they have.

[Dasher]

Congrats to all the formerly mentioned females in administrative and development type jobs, it seems that that type of job/s fit them to a T for some reason.

But we are getting OFF TOPIC to continue this off shoot discussion, maybe a new thread to discuss it?

[Rob29]

Originally Posted by Dasher

Congrats to all the formerly mentioned females in administrative and development type jobs, it seems that that type of job/s fit them to a T for some reason.

But we are getting OFF TOPIC to continue this off shoot discussion, maybe a new thread to discuss it?

True;to be honest I have never heard of any of these women.I think we were discussing drivers?

[kramer]

I'm one who thinks women only haven't won due the sheer weight of male numbers.

I'm also one who says that rallying, hillclimbing and drag-racing are just as demanding as circuit racing, only in subtly different ways (and I've competed in races, rallies and hillclimbs.)

I reckon if a woman does win one of the championships you've nominated, the goal-posts will suddenly shift; Oh, but Formula One is much easier now than when XXXXXXX was winning.'

I think you're just attention-seeking and trying to justify your silly sexist attitude.

I've competed against many women, and more than one have given my a whipping on the track. Didn't bother me that they were women, just that they were beating me! I feel just the same when men do it.

And how many 'major championships' have YOU won Dasher? Me? I've won several club and multi-club championships and my class in several State and National titles.

Should I point out names like Paula Elstrek, Rachelle Splatt and Corinne East-Johnston? All drivers who have no willies. But I guess they don't count 'cause of your very narrow definition. In case you wonder, Paula Elstrek won the Victorian Hillclimb Championship and Corinne East-Johnston the Australian Motorkhana Championship.

Testosterone / estrogen has NOTHING to do with it. The motivation, eye-hand coordination and balance come from the brain. And even women have one of those.



Kramer

[Dasher]

Originally Posted by kramer

I'm one who thinks women only haven't won due the sheer weight of male numbers.

I'm also one who says that rallying, hillclimbing and drag-racing are just as demanding as circuit racing, only in subtly different ways (and I've competed in races, rallies and hillclimbs.)

I reckon if a woman does win one of the championships you've nominated, the goal-posts will suddenly shift; Oh, but Formula One is much easier now than when XXXXXXX was winning.'

I think you're just attention-seeking and trying to justify your silly sexist attitude.

I've competed against many women, and more than one have given my a whipping on the track. Didn't bother me that they were women, just that they were beating me! I feel just the same when men do it.

And how many 'major championships' have YOU won Dasher? Me? I've won several club and multi-club championships and my class in several State and National titles.

Should I point out names like Paula Elstrek, Rachelle Splatt and Corinne East-Johnston? All drivers who have no willies. But I guess they don't count 'cause of your very narrow definition. In case you wonder, Paula Elstrek won the Victorian Hillclimb Championship and Corinne East-Johnston the Australian Motorkhana Championship.

Testosterone / estrogen has NOTHING to do with it. The motivation, eye-hand coordination and balance come from the brain. And even women have one of those.
Kramer

I dont know where you get the idea that i am a sexist & attention seeking as all I have done is pose the question as to why a female has never won a major motor racing championship.

I have never actually raced Kramer (don't see what difference that makes) but have been involved with different drivers including females in many different disciplines & have been involved in motor racing & speedway for over 40 years.

Rachelle Splatt was the first female in Top Alcohol to break 300mph in Australia and a very good steerer but its not circuit racing and she didn't win a championship.

Congratulations to Corrine for winning the Australian "Motorkana" championship but again its not circuit racing.

You mention Paula Elstrek, yes she did win the Vic Hillclimb Championship a couple of years ago, how do I know this, she & her family are personal friends of mine so dont go down that track with me.

Paula is and was an exceptionally talented female driver that could hold her own and better with any male driver of her time bar none in any discipline including circuit racing.

The reasons she didn't take her motor racing career further forward are known to many people around the motor racing fraternity and they know who they are and what they did.

If you knew the whole story about Paula & still think my attitude is narrow minded & sexist you don't know what you are talking about.

[formerf1champ]

Originally Posted by kramer

In case you wonder, Paula Elstrek won the Victorian Hillclimb Championship and Corinne East-Johnston the Australian Motorkhana Championship.

To be fair, man or woman, from a competitve pov , the VHC or AMC isn't going to turn Jamie Whincup into a nervous wreck any time soon, I do remember a teenager winning it one year with barely any experience. It's also, kind of, backing up mountainstar's point...

Originally Posted by mountainstar

\
The US Army did a number of studies regarding women in combat duties. With thousands of participants taking part in physical and aggressive combat tasks, around 80% of men could complete the task successfully and only around 3-5% of women.

I have found about the same on race tracks. Most women are great listeners and if driving against the clock or on their own with proper training they can be reasonably quick. However you put any other aggressive stimuli out there or anything that requires situational awareness and 95% of them fall apart and can't keep the aggression up. Getting bumped from behind at 100 mph or going door to door and they just can't do it. It's almost like they have to constantly dig deep to find a harsh aggressiveness they don't have...

If one notices where women have been successful in motorsport it's been rallying, co driving and drag racing. All sports that are against the clock.

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by TWRv12

Sorry I was a bit vague, just trying to add to the debate.

• Monisha Kaltenborn, F1’s first female team principal, Sauber
• Leena Gade (Audi LM winner) and Teena Gade (Prodrive/MiniWRC)
• Chief Aerodynamicist for Formula One’s Team Lotus, Marianne Hinson
• Frederique Trouvé has been the manager of the FIA GT, Touring Car and Truck Racing Commissions since 2001
• SILVIA BELLOT, F1’s youngest, and only female, race steward
• FIA’s Head of Medical Affairs, Sandra Silveira Camargo.

See the 'This is Women's Work' article in the latest issue of the FIA's InMotion magazine.
http://www.fia.com/en-GB/Documents/InMotion-DEC2011.pdf

Sandra Silveira is in August edition
http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre...tion_home.aspx

The is at least one technician in V8SC too, can't think of her name at the moment.

Also worth a mention are some really good Motorport media women.

I've added them to the article. Thanks, TWR!

[speedreader]

Originally Posted by formerf1champ
I have found about the same on race tracks. Most women are great listeners and if driving against the clock or on their own with proper training they can be reasonably quick. However you put any other aggressive stimuli out there or anything that requires situational awareness and 95% of them fall apart and can't keep the aggression up. Getting bumped from behind at 100 mph or going door to door and they just can't do it. It's almost like they have to constantly dig deep to find a harsh aggressiveness they don't have...

I have a very close involvement with people driving cars, both on & off road & I can assure you that whilst I agree a high percentage of women struggle in 'stressful situations' an incredibly high percentage of men struggle too so I dont consider that just a female gender issue.

To be successful in motor sport you need more than raw talent. You need knowledge, experience, support, persistence & a fairly large dose of luck. If I were to be critical of females it seems most (& I said most, not all !!!) either dont really want to get there bad enough or dont stand the test of time getting there. Earning repsect by getting your hands dirty on the way up is part of the equation & I see a lot who 'want to race' but not many who actually 'work' to get there.

This, plus what I said in a previous post about sheer % numbers of male versus female 'wanna be's' and the more sexist 'I'll help the nice lookin females cos it's good publicity' attitudes will always make it harder for a talented female to get to the top but there are some out there capable.

I'd like to think it's only a matter of time now sponsors & promoters are finally starting to realise a 'talented' female racer IS better '$' value publicity.

C'mon girls, start stepping up to the plate & working for it