Women in Circuit Racing

[deeks6]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

Any American driver with pro aspirations is racing in Nascar these days. The indy racing league isn't really a professional championship anymore, very few drivers are paid decently anymore.

Well, lets get all 43 NASCAR drivers and put them in a high powered open wheeler and race them against Danica Patrick on a road circuit then and see where she finishes. At their best, Montoya and AJ and Smoke would beat her (you'd think) but Montoya is past his best and Tony would be lucky to fit into a cockpit these days. Of the others maybe Ambrose (except he has only driven FF and F3) and IMO Kyle Busch could make the grade ... but right NOW, I'd have my money on Danica finishing in the top 3 for sure.

[rdmdog]

Originally Posted by Dasher

Yes I know rdmdog, her name was Shirley Mulvaney but NHRA Top Fuel isn't circuit racing is it?

Muldowney actually, agreed it's not circuit racing, but a small time championship it isn't.

[Dasher]

Well it that time of year again and it still hasn't happened apart from the a fore mentioned females.

I pose the question for the umpteenth time, will a female ever win a Major Motor Racing Championship (as described in previous posts),when will it happen?

[GTRMagic]

How about This One

Risky? Chance of a 2nd season?

The Cool Driver thingumy seems like the Red Bull programs... perform in Y1 or maybe you dont get another shot..

[harcey]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

How about This One

Risky? Chance of a 2nd season?

The Cool Driver thingumy seems like the Red Bull programs... perform in Y1 or maybe you dont get another shot..

Karts to carrera cup ..............easy way to have a short carreer,
nothing quite like learning your craft............

[wnut]

Originally Posted by deeks6

However, I would consider a National Formula Ford Title as a "major" championship and you may want to google the result of the 1976 South African championship ...

Absolutely agreed !

Also:

Leanne Tander should get more support, I think she has real potential.

[mac]

Originally Posted by wnut

Absolutely agreed !

Also:

Leanne Tander should get more support, I think she has real potential.

Samantha Reid is the one that should be getting support - I know she's been involved with the Kellys this year, but they don't seem to have done a lot for her. Clearly possesses some ability...

Young Chelsea Angelo is probably the best young prospect on the horizon as far as circuit racing goes... Doing a full season in national Formula Ford with Evans Motorsport next year.

I also heard something about Molly Taylor possibly doing a full season rallying in the European Rally Championship next year...

[eduardo1]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

How about This One

Risky? Chance of a 2nd season?

The Cool Driver thingumy seems like the Red Bull programs... perform in Y1 or maybe you dont get another shot..

And the signage is pink, of course.

Well done on real, out of the box thinking there.

[alfacors]

A. that's not the car Renee is driving
B. That's not the livery she will be running.

She seemed to do okay in the Aussies at Winton given her lack of experience.

[eduardo1]

Originally Posted by alfacors

A. that's not the car Renee is driving
B. That's not the livery she will be running.

She seemed to do okay in the Aussies at Winton given her lack of experience.

Point taken - but it's still the car that she was photographed with when the announcement was made and distributed to the media.

[Goat Boy]

Did you know that:

- If your second finger is longer than your index finger it means you have better hand-eye coordination and spatial awareness

- This is caused by higher levels of testosterone, which helps with the above

- A majority of men have this, and a minority of women

- If you know a bloke who is a notoriously bad driver (minor bumps and scratches from misjudging distance) check his hands, his index finger will probably be longer

- Most women's index is longer

- Almost guaranteed that any decent woman race driver will have a longer second finger, showing higher testosterone levels

Which is why although most women drivers are safer than their male counterparts, their parking skills may not be quite as good and most of them don't actually want to be race drivers. It's all about good old testosterone!

[Dasher]

Originally Posted by alfacors

A. that's not the car Renee is driving
B. That's not the livery she will be running.

She seemed to do okay in the Aussies at Winton given her lack of experience.

Alfacors please, there is a huge difference between "doing ok" in ARC and cutting competitive laps in a Carrera Cup Porsche.

No disrespect to the Renee but she's still in nappies at 17 as far as motorsport experience goes.

But as I have said many times previously,

Good Looks & a Nice set will get you the publicity that sponsors want, knowhow & ability is optional.

Talk about doing a reasonable apprenticeship & come through a couple of classes and then into something faster,this aint it I'm afraid.

[speedreader]

Have to agree with you Dasher, unfortunately
Renee may well have to goods but next year will be a 100% learning year, along with another one or two after that at least - she will not be setting the world on fire for a while.
There have been a few good female racers but I feel sorry for them (and Renee will find this out unfortunately) they never get a chance to learn their trade before hitting the headlines and this, unlike their male counter parts, means that more often than not, they dont get the results in time to prove themsleves & they lose financial support before they get the chance to make the grade
Hopefully one will get there on day soon but I cant see which one yet
Molly Taylor is certainly doing a good job at junior level World Rally Championship level & she has won the British Ladies title already

[MacrosNZ]

Originally Posted by Goat Boy

Did you know that:

- If your second finger is longer than your index finger it means you have better hand-eye coordination and spatial awareness

- A majority of men have this, and a minority of women

Women still seem to have a mean digit ratio of less than one.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digit_ratio

[Sheep Stations]

The young woman is marketable, has backing and will be taught how to drive a cup car by one of the best teams in the business. Stay off the walls, don't run into the back of anyone, stay humble and don't get mouthy and finish ahead of a few 'elites' and it will be a successful learning year.

Good luck to her and Team McElrea...

[wnut]

Desire Wilson career summary

http://www.f1rejects.com/drivers/wilson/biography.html

Back to back Formula Ford championships!

[Dasher]

Originally Posted by wnut

Desire Wilson career summary

http://www.f1rejects.com/drivers/wilson/biography.html

Back to back Formula Ford championships!

I dips my lid to her,she must have been some sort of driver plus being a female as well.
Ok, she is one out of the box but lets say this was back 35 years ago and no female has ever and most probably will never ever do it again?

[Dasher]

Originally Posted by Sheep Stations

The young woman is marketable, has backing and will be taught how to drive a cup car by one of the best teams in the business. Stay off the walls, don't run into the back of anyone, stay humble and don't get mouthy and finish ahead of a few 'elites' and it will be a successful learning year.

Good luck to her and Team McElrea...

Give me a break Sheep Stations, "taught to drive a cup car" "is marketable" & has backing, oh yes I forgot one thing more "TALENT IS OPTIONAL".

This is the best way to probably finish Renees racing career before it has barely even got going.

I dont care who the team is,if you havent done your apprenticeship you wont cut it, she should have done at a bare minimum at least a season in National Formula Ford to start with and then maybe just maybe onto a faster class if she shows a bit of know how,Team McElrea love it cos its more cash for them.

These desk jockeys & marketing people who come up with these things have got no bloody idea of how the motorsport chain works, all they do is come up with ideas with no regards to a persons actual ability to carry it out and it kills careers.

The best female racer in Australia in recent times was Paula Elstrek, she could cut it with the best of the boys in any class but for reasons i wont go into was not marketable so it didnt happen for her,but she could drive the wheels off any car bar none.

[GTS145]

As a female who lives and breathes motorsport, I think this is great discussion.

From a female persepctive this is how I see it.

The percentage of women interested in competing in motorsport is just about nil
Women do not have the physical attributes to stay in race cars for long periods of time. They don't have the arm strength, or the core strength. (Generally)
And again generally, we don't have the same hunger to win that men do.
And it's true, women are more marketable than men in this sport, because they are rare to start with, and if they show even a spec of talent, they are snapped up. They bring great exposure to any team.

And once again, generally, Women invloved in motorsport absulutely love it, I know I do. But I am never going to be a front runner, and I don't care. Everytime I get on the track, I have the time of my life. And, thats all that matters to me. As I said, I'm not hungry enough. I just want to have fun.

[Dasher]

Originally Posted by GTS145

As a female who lives and breathes motorsport, I think this is great discussion.

From a female persepctive this is how I see it.

The percentage of women interested in competing in motorsport is just about nil
Women do not have the physical attributes to stay in race cars for long periods of time. They don't have the arm strength, or the core strength. (Generally)
And again generally, we don't have the same hunger to win that men do.
And it's true, women are more marketable than men in this sport, because they are rare to start with, and if they show even a spec of talent, they are snapped up. They bring great exposure to any team.

And once again, generally, Women invloved in motorsport absulutely love it, I know I do. But I am never going to be a front runner, and I don't care. Everytime I get on the track, I have the time of my life. And, thats all that matters to me. As I said, I'm not hungry enough. I just want to have fun.

That's great that you love it and are only in it to have fun but the core of this discussion is about females that haven't won any or many major motor acing circuit championship and you have just about summed it up by stating that they are not hungry enough or actually built to do it.
What irks me is that the females with good looks and nice physical attributes are the ones that get picked up regardless of their abilities or lack of them because they are "marketable" over guys who have a aboundless talent with no money, it's not right.
The case above is a classic example.

[speedreader]

Originally Posted by GTS145
As a female who lives and breathes motorsport, I think this is great discussion.

From a female persepctive this is how I see it.

The percentage of women interested in competing in motorsport is just about nil
Women do not have the physical attributes to stay in race cars for long periods of time. They don't have the arm strength, or the core strength. (Generally)
And again generally, we don't have the same hunger to win that men do.
And it's true, women are more marketable than men in this sport, because they are rare to start with, and if they show even a spec of talent, they are snapped up. They bring great exposure to any team.

And once again, generally, Women invloved in motorsport absulutely love it, I know I do. But I am never going to be a front runner, and I don't care. Everytime I get on the track, I have the time of my life. And, thats all that matters to me. As I said, I'm not hungry enough. I just want to have fun.

Absolute rot !!!

Agreed women, in general, will find the physical barriers harder to tackle than their male counterparts but not having the hunger to win - come on...

If you are a true sportsperson you dont go out there to come second, you at least do the very best job you can do in the equipment available. If you don't you are not a serious racer, just someone who enjoys racing (and there is nothing wrong with that) BUT to label all women as not hungry enough to win is just plain stupid. They dont go Drag racing to come second. They dont go Rallying to come second & they sure as hell dont go Kart racing to come second so why should they be happy coming second in motor racing ?

It is true a female hasnt won a major championship in a long time (acknowledging Desire Wilson's Formula Ford Championship as an acceptable championship win) but the presumption it is because they all don't have the will to win is definitely NOT a valid reason

[Dasher]

Originally Posted by speedreader

Absolute rot !!!

Agreed women, in general, will find the physical barriers harder to tackle than their male counterparts but not having the hunger to win - come on...

If you are a true sportsperson you dont go out there to come second, you at least do the very best job you can do in the equipment available. If you don't you are not a serious racer, just someone who enjoys racing (and there is nothing wrong with that) BUT to label all women as not hungry enough to win is just plain stupid. They dont go Drag racing to come second. They dont go Rallying to come second & they sure as hell dont go Kart racing to come second so why should they be happy coming second in motor racing ?

It is true a female hasnt won a major championship in a long time (acknowledging Desire Wilson's Formula Ford Championship as an acceptable championship win) but the presumption it is because they all don't have the will to win is definitely NOT a valid reason

Nobody said that they didnt have the will to win but usually they lack the big Kahoonahs to carry it out, not many "have" them so to speak.

I say this with all due respect to female drivers as a term of reference, "if they had b*lls as big as their t*ts" they would be F1 World Champions by now, they havent so they wont.

[eduardo1]

I have never read a bigger load of rubbish.

Look at the bravery of women like Alissa Camplin etc, who jump 20m in the air doing somersaults and land on ice-hard snow. They break bones, recuperate and do it again.

Tell me that doesn't required incredible core strength.

Speaking to drivers who trained Celebrity Challenge drivers at various Grand Prix - they always said the very best to train were the female athletes that were invited because they were focused, dedicated and massively competitive.

Women have forged excellent racing careers over the past few decades, but they are a rarity. Not for any genetic reason, but because this is still a male-dominated sport, both on track and culturally and this is a barrier to women's interest in participation.

While yes, women benefit from their rarity getting more media exposure, they also equally suffer from tokenism and the need to prove themselves superior to males to be considered an equal.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by eduardo1

I have never read a bigger load of rubbish.

Look at the bravery of women like Alissa Camplin etc, who jump 20m in the air doing somersaults and land on ice-hard snow. They break bones, recuperate and do it again.

Tell me that doesn't required incredible core strength.

Speaking to drivers who trained Celebrity Challenge drivers at various Grand Prix - they always said the very best to train were the female athletes that were invited because they were focused, dedicated and massively competitive.

Women have forged excellent racing careers over the past few decades, but they are a rarity. Not for any genetic reason, but because this is still a male-dominated sport, both on track and culturally and this is a barrier to women's interest in participation.

While yes, women benefit from their rarity getting more media exposure, they also equally suffer from tokenism and the need to prove themselves superior to males to be considered an equal.

Well said!


Leanne Tander holds the F3 lap record for Phillip Island set in 2008!

[Dasher]

Originally Posted by eduardo1

I have never read a bigger load of rubbish.

Look at the bravery of women like Alissa Camplin etc, who jump 20m in the air doing somersaults and land on ice-hard snow. They break bones, recuperate and do it again.

Tell me that doesn't required incredible core strength.

Speaking to drivers who trained Celebrity Challenge drivers at various Grand Prix - they always said the very best to train were the female athletes that were invited because they were focused, dedicated and massively competitive.

Women have forged excellent racing careers over the past few decades, but they are a rarity. Not for any genetic reason, but because this is still a male-dominated sport, both on track and culturally and this is a barrier to women's interest in participation.

While yes, women benefit from their rarity getting more media exposure, they also equally suffer from tokenism and the need to prove themselves superior to males to be considered an equal.

Well Eduardo you said it yourself, What a load of rubbish.

Alissa Camplin is a World Champion athlete in a completely different sport and probably does have a great core strength,good on her for it but could she do it for 40-60 odd laps or more along with the G forces,mental concentration & speed that goes with it when at best she would do it for about 15 seconds at most when she does her stuff, there is no comparison there.

The female athletes you speak of are probably focused, dedicated and massively competitive but again could they do it for 40-60 odd laps or more along with the G forces & speed that goes with it, females are very competitive in short term endurance's but suffer badly in longer events.

As you say, very very few females have forged excellent racing careers over some years, the ones that have, have had very good results but only ONE to the best of my knowledge has ever won a reasonable championship (respects to Desire Wilson) & NONE have ever won a Major World or Country Championship & in this day and age they never will.

They suffer tokenism in Motor Racing because the people who know, know that at the end of the day a female will just not cut it in the long run, they haven't bar a few got the physical or mental attributes (how ever nice) to do it, short term yes long term no.