Women in Circuit Racing

[m00neelee]

Dasher, I suppose Formula Ford doesn't 'cut the mustard'?

Desiré Wilson - South African Formula Ford Champion - 1975
- South African Formula Ford Champion - 1976

As I said initially, I hope this discussion gets closed. It is not about "Women in Motorsport" as the thread title suggests because you have excluded the majority of motorsports.
It is not about "What female drivers have achieved" because every time someone indicates a female drive who is/was successful you just dismiss it.
This is just one persons attempt to belittle the achievements of all female drivers who have succeeded in their chosen level of competition.

It is hard enough for any person to succeed in the selective list of competitions you have nominated, let alone for a female to succeed. So why not encourage female drivers instead of denigrating their achievements.

[Dasher]

Originally Posted by m00neelee

Dasher, I suppose Formula Ford doesn't 'cut the mustard'?

Desiré Wilson - South African Formula Ford Champion - 1975
- South African Formula Ford Champion - 1976

As I said initially, I hope this discussion gets closed. It is not about "Women in Motorsport" as the thread title suggests because you have excluded the majority of motorsports.
It is not about "What female drivers have achieved" because every time someone indicates a female drive who is/was successful you just dismiss it.
This is just one persons attempt to belittle the achievements of all female drivers who have succeeded in their chosen level of competition.

It is hard enough for any person to succeed in the selective list of competitions you have nominated, let alone for a female to succeed. So why not encourage female drivers instead of denigrating their achievements.

Utter Rubbish, get off your high horse, m00neelee.

I also ask you the same question about what have you ever done in motoracing to stand on the moral high ground as you are?.

There is no reason to close this thread as it has not ever violated any forum posting rules.

I have never denigrated any female drivers achievements only the lack of them in any Major Motor Racing Championship & have just asked the question, WHY?

Maybe the categories you want to include such as winning the SA Formula Ford or Renault championships are one of the reasons why no female driver has ever gone on to win a Major Championship, they are not exactly group one status.

The question is very simple, the criteria is just as simple but has been made complicated by people wanting to throw in variants or non criteria categories.

If you don't want to read it then don't but the question is still out there?

[Umai Naa]

Face it, your concept of a "criteria" is crap.

[Dasher]

Originally Posted by Umai Naa

Face it, your concept of a "criteria" is crap.

In your opinion, if you don't agree with it, don't read it or contribute, it is what it is?

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by Dasher

In your opinion, if you don't agree with it, don't read it or contribute, it is what it is?

yeah and it's wrong (IMO of course)

[Dasher]

Originally Posted by MGDavid

yeah and it's wrong

Your still reading it and contributing to it even if you don't agree, thanks.😄

[peckstar]

I would think that by the criteria you have mentioned that you will be saying the same thing next year.

Hardly any women racing in those categories and when they are I dont think any are in a top team

[Umai Naa]

Spot on.

[DAVID PATERSON]

So you want us to name a female that has won a "major" circuit racing championship, but you reserve the right to determine what is "major"?

Major is a very subjective term. One could argue that any National Championship is major. Some National Championships might be considered more prestigious than some other International Championships...

[Dasher]

David Patterson, you are correct that "Major" is a very subjective term so i will say it again.

The criteria for this thread is a Major Championship on a flat track bitumen or oval in a car like F1, F2, F3, Indy Car, Nascar, V8 Super Cars, DTM, British TC, Le Mans, Sports Cars etc.etc..

A National Championship may be considered if it was like a British Formula Ford, F2 or the like but not a "Mickey Mouse" manufacturer type series.

But not Bikes, not Drags, not Speedway, not Rally, not Hillclimb etc.

Cheers.

[Dasher]

Originally Posted by peckstar

I would think that by the criteria you have mentioned that you will be saying the same thing next year.

Hardly any women racing in those categories and when they are I dont think any are in a top team

So Peckstar, are you saying that the reason that no female driver has won a championship in any of those categories is that they dont race in them and if they do they are usually in a less than top team and are being used for their marketing potential rather than their driving ability to fund the team?

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by Dasher

So Peckstar, are you saying that the reason that no female driver has won a championship in any of those categories is that they dont race in them and if they do they are usually in a less than top team and are being used for their marketing potential rather than their driving ability to fund the team?

Not quite im saying that currently there is no one really meeting your criteria so you will be saying the same thing next year

[Dasher]

Originally Posted by peckstar

Not quite im saying that currently there is no one really meeting your criteria so you will be saying the same thing next year

Its very very hard to win it if your not in it and i may be asking the same thing next year because of it.

But the point of this thread is to debate the question as to WHY NOT?

[Umai Naa]

Originally Posted by Dasher

David Patterson, you are correct that "Major" is a very subjective term so i will say it again.

The criteria for this thread is a Major Championship on a flat track bitumen or oval in a car like F1, F2, F3, Indy Car, Nascar, V8 Super Cars, DTM, British TC, Le Mans, Sports Cars etc.etc..

A National Championship may be considered if it was like a British Formula Ford, F2 or the like but not a "Mickey Mouse" manufacturer type series.

But not Bikes, not Drags, not Speedway, not Rally, not Hillclimb etc.

Cheers.

"etc, etc, etc..." is not helping your cause.

[DAVID PATERSON]

I agree the thread title needs changing. It is not about women in motorsport, it is about female circuit racing champions.

You have merely offered examples of what you call "major". Examples are not a definition. Though, based on your prior posts, one could suggest that any championship one by a women, could not possibly be considered "major" in your world.

[Dasher]

Originally Posted by Umai Naa

"etc, etc, etc..." is not helping your cause.

Umai Naa, with all due respect,
the etc. etc.etc. means races like or of a similar standing to the fore mentioned ones.

Its not that hard to work it out FFS?

[Dasher]

Originally Posted by DAVID PATERSON

I agree the thread title needs changing. It is not about women in motorsport, it is about female circuit racing champions.

You have merely offered examples of what you call "major". Examples are not a definition. Though, based on your prior posts, one could suggest that any championship one by a women, could not possibly be considered "major" in your world.

Yes David,maybe the title does need a tweek but dont know if it can be changed now?

I definitely do not suggest that any championship WON by a woman could not be considered a "Major", only that most or all of the championships that have been WON by a female don't fit "The Criteria" I have suggested above?

They have been of a "Minor" type (IMO),although sometimes even being a National title that really dosent cut it due to the fact that they are contested in non major motor racing countries without very much depth.

Hope this explains it better for you and all?

[Dasher]

Originally Posted by Dasher

Will a female driver ever win a Motor Racing Championship?

This question opens the discussion about whether or not there will ever be a female driver win a driving championship in classes like Aussie V8's, F1, F3, Nascar, Indy/Champ cars, BTCC etc etc?

There has been the odd female won drag championships like Shirley Muldowney "The First Lady Of Drag Racing" won 3 NHRA top fuel championships in 1977,`80 and `82..., & some have won important races like the Dakar Rally, but never a circuit racing championship

In my opinion there never has been or will be.

What does everyone else think???????

This is the opening post of this thread that clearly says circuit racing driving championship.

[porsche91722]

Originally Posted by Dasher

This is the opening post of this thread that clearly says circuit racing driving championship.

You do realize you're on a hiding to nothing, don't you?

[Dasher]

Originally Posted by porsche91722

You do realize you're on a hiding to nothing, don't you?

Yeah quite aware of that thanks Porsch91722, but I'll press on regardless, LOL

[m00neelee]

Originally Posted by Dasher

This is the opening post of this thread that clearly says circuit racing driving championship.

I think I understand why there is so much confusion as to what you are aiming for. Although you reference 'circuit racing championship', you clearly start out saying

'Will a female driver ever win a Motor Racing Championship?'

, and this is the term you continually reference

(Dec 4, 2014)

'no female driver has won a Major Motor Racing Championship'

The fact you continue to move the goal posts makes this even harder to have a rational discussion.

Of the limited range of events you have listed ('i'm still trying to find the 'International Etcetera Championship') there are only a handful of active female drivers, and (IMO) only one is in competitive equipment.

To consider Desiré Wilson's 1976 South African Formula Ford Championship (not 75, damn wikipedia) as not a 'Major Motor Racing Championship' demonstrates to me you don't actually want to acknowledge the achievements of any successful female drivers.

[Dasher]

Originally Posted by m00neelee

I think I understand why there is so much confusion as to what you are aiming for. Although you reference 'circuit racing championship', you clearly start out saying , and this is the term you continually reference

(Dec 4, 2014)

The fact you continue to move the goal posts makes this even harder to have a rational discussion.

Of the limited range of events you have listed ('i'm still trying to find the 'International Etcetera Championship') there are only a handful of active female drivers, and (IMO) only one is in competitive equipment.

To consider Desiré Wilson's 1976 South African Formula Ford Championship (not 75, damn wikipedia) as not a 'Major Motor Racing Championship' demonstrates to me you don't actually want to acknowledge the achievements of any successful female drivers.

Even though Desire Wilson has been a wonderful female driver in modern times you could hardly call the 1975 South African FF Championship a "Major" alongside an F1 or Indy car type of race.

You know the criteria as set, get over it and come up with a name that fits the bill if you can?

[Umai Naa]

You're just splitting hairs for the sake of splitting hairs.

You already know the answer to your overly-defined question.

[275 GTB-4]

Originally Posted by Umai Naa

You're just splitting hairs for the sake of splitting hairs.

You already know the answer to your overly-defined question.

Six years since the dasher started this thread...I don't really like the direction its taking...

Women are excelling everywhere you look...if they (as a group) don't think the male dominated boys club of F1 etc is worth having a go at for whatever reason, then lets just leave it at that?

[peckstar]

although the question still remains why dont women comepte at the top levels of motorsport. In theory it should be something that women and men could be equal at but they dont.

An argument about wether or not someone achieved something 40 years ago is not really important. Its 40 years latter what is stop women drivers in motorsport