Driver Lewis Hamilton is the best driver in F1. Discuss - Page 15

strider · 29 Sep 2010, 00:54 (Ref:2766382)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Hans

I tend to switch between Alonso and Hamilton. For the bulk of this season I'd have said Hamilton was the best, but all it takes is a couple of mistakes from him and a couple of top performances from Alonso and I start to change my mind.

Those two are leagues ahead though, in my opinion, with little to split them.

Don't disregard Kubica.

**bjohnsonsmith** · 29 Sep 2010, 05:22 (Ref:2766430)

Quote:

Originally Posted by strider

Don't disregard Kubica.

He's done a great job for Renault, shame their development hasn't kept up but that's part of no more on-season testing. Whose idea was that?

Marbot · 29 Sep 2010, 07:25 (Ref:2766455)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

He's done a great job for Renault, shame their development hasn't kept up but that's part of no more on-season testing. Whose idea was that?

You can develop the car as much as you like, but you can only test it during pre-race practice sessions and on the simulators. It's the same for everyone....if you have the cash.

Marbot · 29 Sep 2010, 07:32 (Ref:2766458)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Born Racer

but he can't hold a candle to Hamilton.

Hamilton seems to be doing his best to put his own out.

I don't think that there's much to seperate them in truth. It's hardly the 'white-wash' that many were predicting.

I'll still stand by my thinking that second only to Vettel, Hamilton is more likely than any of the other championship protaganists to be involved in a race incident or rules infraction.

peckstar · 29 Sep 2010, 07:42 (Ref:2766464)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Born Racer

Button has done very well this season, possibly even better than in 2009, but he can't hold a candle to Hamilton.

there in the same cars and they are separated by 5 points, which is the difference between first and 2nd in a race

I think the candle has been well and truly held to him

Knowlesy · 29 Sep 2010, 08:31 (Ref:2766479)

Yeah but look deeper. On a normal race weekend Hamilton has pretty much always been running ahead of Jenson, often comfortably.

Only really at Monza has Button had the measure of Lewis in the dry. And even then we didn't get a proper chance to see.

That 5 point gap is far less than Lewis really deserves IMO.

Ralf's Girl · 29 Sep 2010, 08:33 (Ref:2766481)

Quote:

Originally Posted by peckstar

there in the same cars and they are separated by 5 points, which is the difference between first and 2nd in a race

I would have said that that was more due to Hamilton not scoring as many points as expected than Button scoring more. Hamilton has lost points in Spain and Hungary due to car failure before you even consider his mistake at Monza and the collision with Webber. In most races and qualifying sessions, he has comfortably had the measure of Button, who as far as I can recall has only had one reliability issue all year (I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong).

**garcon** · 29 Sep 2010, 08:36 (Ref:2766482)

I love it when people use terms like "second rate" when describing drivers in the top third of the best twenty or so racing drivers in the world.

Who's the best? It varies as younger drivers develop and older ones decline, with a few fluctuations in form in between.

In my opinion, head and shoulders above the rest and finally proving it is Alonso.

Next are the two McLaren Brits, with Button still holding an edge over a rapidly improving Hamilton - it's now so tight that I think the last few races of the season will decide who still has that edge by the end.

Next, for this season alone and on the back of some brilliant drives is Webber. But I can't help thinking he'll turn out to be a one hit wonder and be eclipsed by younger drivers next year.

Then it's Vettel, who probably by virtue of little more than the equipment he has enjoys an edge over a handful of other up and coming stars such as Kubica and Rosberg. Make no doubt about it, these guys are good, and will NOT be living in Hamilton's shadow when they've gained a little more experience and get the right equipment.

nickj · 29 Sep 2010, 09:10 (Ref:2766496)

I think Alonso is currently the most complete driver in F1. Don't like the guy but in my opinion he has it over the other drivers in terms of performance and speed. Hamilton is a bloody good driver but he is young and I reckon get to the level that Alonso is at.
Great season of F1 though - loving it !

Marbot · 29 Sep 2010, 09:14 (Ref:2766501)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ralf's Girl

he has comfortably had the measure of Button

"comfortably" ?

It's certainly not 'Kovalainen comfortably'.

4 races to go and from here I know who my money would be on if holding it together under pressure really mattered. Vettel and Hamilton can both be put to the bottom of that list IMO.

Ralf's Girl · 29 Sep 2010, 09:27 (Ref:2766505)

Yes, comfortably. Not to the extent that he had the beating of Kovalainen, but comfortably nonetheless.

I think it's unfair on Hamilton to suggest that he can't cope under pressure - I would say he was under a great deal of pressure in 2008 and pulled out the result he needed to win the title. I would put the Red Bull drivers bottom of your list as far as ability to hack the pressure goes - both of them have been known to suffer from the descent of the red mist when things aren't going their way.

mac · 29 Sep 2010, 09:36 (Ref:2766509)

Quote:

Originally Posted by garcon

Next, for this season alone and on the back of some brilliant drives is Webber. But I can't help thinking he'll turn out to be a one hit wonder and be eclipsed by younger drivers next year.

That's what the experts said last year...

mac · 29 Sep 2010, 09:38 (Ref:2766511)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ralf's Girl

I think it's unfair on Hamilton to suggest that he can't cope under pressure - I would say he was under a great deal of pressure in 2008 and pulled out the result he needed to win the title.

Well, actually he and the team blew it.

If the Toyota drivers hadn't both lost their bearings in the wet and accidentally selected reverse gear, Lewis was screwed.

Ralf's Girl · 29 Sep 2010, 09:44 (Ref:2766517)

I'm not sure that was pressure - I rather wonder whether he was a bit too relaxed in just going for the result he needed rather than giving himself a bit more breathing space. Still, he only had one opportunity to pass Glock in difficult conditions, and it would have been easy for him to go sailing off the track.

**chunterer** · 29 Sep 2010, 09:45 (Ref:2766518)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac

That's what the experts said last year...

Yup, he showed the signs in the Jag and then has been steadily getting quicker and better in 08 and 09, in fact got the rough end of the stick last season when it mattered only to prove himself all over again in Brazil.

I think Webber's early F1 career mirrored someone like Frentzen's - massive promise, except unlike Frentzen Webbo has gone on to deliver properly whereas Heinz bottled.

This year Webber has simply underlined how good he is and I have little doubt that he'll continue to challenge as long as he stays in F1.

The SpeCTator · 29 Sep 2010, 09:50 (Ref:2766519)

Is he the guy that has clattered into his rivals in the last 2 races and chucked away bucket loads of secure points ?

**chunterer** · 29 Sep 2010, 09:55 (Ref:2766523)

Quote:

Originally Posted by The SpeCTator

Is he the guy that has clattered into his rivals in the last 2 races and chucked away bucket loads of secure points ?

Webber hit someone yes, but I suspect you're not referring to him!!

Super Hans · 29 Sep 2010, 10:43 (Ref:2766536)

Quote:

Originally Posted by strider

Don't disregard Kubica.

I like Kubica a lot but I'd hesitate to put him up there with Hamilton and Alonso yet. I'd love to see him in a truly competitive car.

**chunterer** · 29 Sep 2010, 10:52 (Ref:2766540)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Hans

I like Kubica a lot but I'd hesitate to put him up there with Hamilton and Alonso yet. I'd love to see him in a truly competitive car.

Yeah know what you mean. He has the potential to join them, but so do a handful of others. We can only ever be sure of a drivers worth when they get their hands on a truly race winning car and as we know there's only ever one or two of them (this season excepted!!) and more people don't get that chance than do.

Super Hans · 29 Sep 2010, 10:58 (Ref:2766544)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

Yeah know what you mean. He has the potential to join them, but so do a handful of others. We can only ever be sure of a drivers worth when they get their hands on a truly race winning car and as we know there's only ever one or two of them (this season excepted!!) and more people don't get that chance than do.

I agree.

Fisichella, for me, always looked excellent. I always wanted to see him in a front-running car. When he got there, he was lacklustre, showing only the occasional glimpse of magic. That's why I hesitate to include drivers who look special amongst those who've proved themselves to be special. I do love Kubica though. He's a proper racer, with no regard for the BS that comes with it. I'd say he's replaced Raikkonen as my personal favourite this year.

**Born Racer** · 29 Sep 2010, 11:17 (Ref:2766553)

Quote:

Originally Posted by peckstar

there in the same cars and they are separated by 5 points, which is the difference between first and 2nd in a race

I think the candle has been well and truly held to him

Points, points, points. I personally am talking about pace. It's funny how many people really rate Button now when so many knocked him until 2009 and he was in their 'third tier' or lower category. Maybe he has improved; in fact, I think he has, but people are over-estimating his pace. Hamilton is plain faster. I guess it depends what we mean by 'best'.

Button has to have a car handling well to perform. Hamilton can usually perform with any car you put in front of him.

ralf fan · 29 Sep 2010, 11:39 (Ref:2766555)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac

That's what the experts said last year...

And that's what happened last year.

peckstar · 29 Sep 2010, 11:41 (Ref:2766556)

you mean like last year BR. now i know the rose coloured glasses are on

Ralf's Girl · 29 Sep 2010, 11:57 (Ref:2766569)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Born Racer

Button has to have a car handling well to perform. Hamilton can usually perform with any car you put in front of him.

I don't know about 'any' car - when the McLaren was at its worst in the early part of last season, it was actually Kovalainen who was more adept at dealing with its deficiencies, especially in qualifying. But I do agree with you that Hamilton is more capable of dragging results out of a difficult car than Button is. Button is untouchable when his car is perfect but starts to look average if the car isn't totally to his liking, as we saw last season.

**chunterer** · 29 Sep 2010, 12:01 (Ref:2766571)

Button's come on as a driver no question otherwise he wouldn't have held on for that one and only WDC last year..... oops bit presumptious perhaps!

But let's not forget that other than taking on Ralfie boy bretty well in 2000, Jense never exactly got on top of a teammate from Fisichella, Trulli, Villeneuve or Rubinho.

Hamilton on the other hand gave Alonso a scare in season 1 and hasn't really been worried by anyone.

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