1970's & 80's Super Saloons & Special Saloons (merged)

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by Clive Brown

So was neither Dickinson car based on a Lola S2000 chassis then ? Was the Pilbeam R17 not commissioned too early to have been the second car ? Perhaps R17 was never built ? Maybe I've put two and two together to make five , and it wasn't even for Tony Dickinson!

If the first car was the ex-Alec Poole / Chris Meek car , what was that based on ? The FVC bit certainly makes sense , because the first Hart 420R didn't make its debut until part way through the 1976 season , and it took the demise of F2 ( by then dominated by the Honda V6 in the works Ralts ) and the various 2 litre Gp. 6 sports car series for the 420R to permeate down into National-level club racing .

Did the second car , whether it used either a T290 or T490 series tub ( or even possibly both at various stages of its career ? ) , use T290 series suspension spares acquired with the complete T290 ?

Help - I'm confused!

Pilbeam did TWO lots of work for Tony Dickinson.

1) R17 which was the work on a Lola Sports 2000 to convert it into a Skoda. and
2) R16 which was some work (not sure exactlly what) on the Imp-BDA.

[Clive Brown]

Both R16 ( the Imp BDA ) and R17 are listed on the Pilbeam website as 1975 projects .

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by Clive Brown

Both R16 ( the Imp BDA ) and R17 are listed on the Pilbeam website as 1975 projects .

One early and one late?

[driftwood]

the Dickenson Lola skoda was not 1975 that was 78 purchase for 79 or 80 racing
Chris meek/alec poole cars was steel shell car circa 73 build for 74 racing
when TD bought the complete T290 as race dby Cloud engineering at LM he got a heap of parts
1 tub uprights gbox wheels blah blah blah so he had pilbeam modify the tub to narrow it for skoda body used all his spares to make a roller
the tub sits in a yard with roll hoop ( well 2 yrs ago it was!)

Honda did not enter F2 until 1980 with the V6 motor
BMW M12 was the motor to have in F2 until Honda turned up Harts normally fitted to Chevron cars

Ernie Woods escort was that Eddie ?? ( i want to say Glass) car who raced at Lydden odd brands race car was white he wore glasses older chap

re lola 911
I hope to have it ready for June 2009 when there will be no rain COWARD !!!!

Re Rob doing a 50.8 on a test day- some may want to dispute it but only a brave man or a fool would want to argue with Doris doing the time keeping!

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by driftwood

the Dickenson Lola skoda was not 1975 that was 78 purchase for 79 or 80 racing

Tony Dickinson was racing a 2 Litre Skoda-Hart at Oulton Park in 1978. It was entered by "Dealer Team Skoda".


Above: 1979 Oulton and Tony Dickinson is leading Walter Robertson (VW DFV) and Derek Walker (Skoda-Ford)

[Clive Brown]

Originally Posted by driftwood

Ernie Woods escort was that Eddie ?? ( i want to say Glass) car who raced at Lydden odd brands race car was white he wore glasses older chap

Eddie Punt , I think you mean . IIRC that car had a two litre BDA of some sort .

[driftwood]

yes Clive thats the man only raced Lydden and the odd Brands race motor may have been 1850 bde type thing poss FVC?

re the skoda running in 78 maybe it was 77 purchae i need to look up the LM entry for cloud engineering

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by driftwood

yes Clive thats the man only raced Lydden and the odd Brands race motor may have been 1850 bde type thing poss FVC?

re the skoda running in 78 maybe it was 77 purchae i need to look up the LM entry for cloud engineering

I amy well have a photo from 1978 but haven't scanned them all in yet - they are on colour slides!

[driftwood]

what is a coloured slide?
where they around when these black round things called records where used?

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by driftwood

what is a coloured slide?
where they around when these black round things called records where used?

You would call them Skid Marks! And yes they have been around (like the pun?) for some time!

[morninggents]

Originally Posted by driftwood

yes Clive thats the man only raced Lydden and the odd Brands race motor may have been 1850 bde type thing poss FVC?

re the skoda running in 78 maybe it was 77 purchae i need to look up the LM entry for cloud engineering

Tony was running a Ford Escort BDA 1998cc in 1976.

Eddie Punt's Escort was a BDA 1840cc IIRC.

[driftwood]

yes i recall ed punts car as being odd engine size hence why i "thought" 1850 bde type thing
why is it i retain such useless info yet failed my maths exam ( i was top in history though!)

[driftwood]

Lola t290 Cloud engineering le man 1978
see foto
http://www.racingsportscars.com/phot...-06-11-033.jpg
info on the race entry
http://www.racingsportscars.com/phot...-11-photo.html

also here a foto
http://www.motorsport.com/photos/pop...44170&S=LEMANS

[chunterer]

Why is that post in here and not in the Lola T290/2 thread Drifty??

[driftwood]

skoda
pls read thread digest then it will self destruct in 20 seconds!

[Clive Brown]

So if Tony Dickinson was racing an Escort with a 2 litre BDA in 1976 , the engine from that car must presumably have been disposed of at the same time as the Escort , since we are told that his first Skoda (the ex-Alec Poole/Chris Meek car ) was powered by an FVC .

As far as the Eddie Punt Escort is concerned , I was sure that it was powered by a BD-series engine of some sort , as for some bizarre reason , I can distinctly remember the metering unit being on top of the cam cover , driven by a toothed belt off the front of the exhaust cam ( see pictures of Derek Walker's Escort for clarification ) , whereas the FVC had it installed below the throttle slides , driven off the back of the inlet cam . I still think it might have been a full two litre , as to be frank , a number of people at the time did rather think that such a good motor was a little wasted on someone of Eddie's , shall we say somewhat mdest , talents !

Curiously , Cosworth BDEs ( built on an iron block ) were always listed at 1850 cc , whereas the engine in the stock Mk. II Escort RS1800 , which was alloy blocked , was always listed as 1840 cc . That particular block , though , was not strong enough for racing use .

Does anyone still have Lydden Hill programmes for the period concerned - that should list the nominal engine capacity of the Punt Escort .

[big andy]

a blast from the past peter days fiat 500 which was powered back in the day by a ????? nice to see its still about

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by big andy

a blast from the past peter days fiat 500 which was powered back in the day by a ????? nice to see its still about

Attachment 20676
Attachment 20675
Attachment 20674

Powered origianally by a TWO cylinder BDA if memory serves! Currently has a BMC A Series engine in the boot!

[rogerwills]

Originally Posted by driftwood

3 options
1 gerry Marshall
2 Tony Strawson
3 ?? Richardson- ( not jeremy) he had the car originally & he is still around as he built the motor for Tony H Daf 33 2 yrs ago
after Richardson the corvair was with the "Strawb"

Not Jeremy's brother Peter?

They both raced Daren Mk2 sports racers including a few international events - Targa Florio, Nurburgring 1000, etc.

There was a German bloke trying to sell one of the Daren Mk2 chassis not so long ago without a plate on it but which had apparently at one time had run with a Skoda silhouette body on it.

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Why is that post in here and not in the Lola T290/2 thread Drifty??

Don't you start!

[Clive Brown]

Powered by half a 1700 BDA ; alloy block if I recall , originally blown up as a four-pot by someone else , Gordon Allen EN40B crank and general engine machining to match it to a s/c c/r Mini gearbox . Originally used in Peter's 850 cc Mini , I recall him saying that it was rendered useless in that form because the RACMSA introduced in their wisdom a regulation which specified that the exhaust of any race vehicle had to exit to the rear of a point equidistant between the front and rear axles . " Hey guys , there's no problem here , let's go and create one ! " Good ol' RACMSA , eh ? Plus ca change .... Anyway , exhaust length was critical to Peter's twin cylinder BDA , and thus the Fiat 500 came about .

It made a most peculiar sound ; rather , in fact , like a BDA running on only two cylinders . I can't recall if it used a 180 or 360 degree crank , but it did have the vibration problems inherent in four-stroke vertical twins ; the fastenings on the car used to work loose , and most of the studs on the alloy parts of the motor had to be helicoiled .

If the package did have an obvious shortcoming , it was that the weight of the engine and gearbox was very much towards the rear of the car , and moreover , because the ( fairly tall ) BDA motor sat atop the mini gearbox , the centre of gravity at the rear of the car must have been quite high . Nevertheless , this and other ( I can't very well say similar ! ) cars of its era epitomise just what it was that made Special Saloons so , err , special !

The last I heard of Peter Day , he was still running his eponymous tuning firm , Daytune , somewhere up in Cambridgeshire ; I believe he used to specialise in Lotii .

At that time , Pe

[big andy]

clive you no your special saloons!

do you no what power (bhp) it made

[Clive Brown]

Unfortunately , no . Certainly , according to someone who used one of my 850cc Imp motors , it pulled quite strongly out of corners , so torque probably wasn't a problem , as one would expect from an 850cc motor with such a comparatively long stroke . In hindsight , as an overall package , it might have been a better proposition in the Fiat mounted inline , coupled to a Hewland Mk. 9 ; this would have both reduced the polar moment of inertia , and lowered the centre of gravity of the car , although the rear end of a Fiat 500 is so truncated that a Hewland might have stuck out of the back of the car !

I guess if it did get tested , it may well have been on the rolling road at Marshalls of Cambridge , which was run by one Peter Baldwin - ever heard of him ? Most Special Saloons from the flatlands of East Anglia and thereabouts , and even some from the Garden of England , found their way on to Peter's rollers sooner or later .

I did wonder myself about the possibility of building a conceptually-similar motor based on the 420R lump for the 1 litre class ; I guess that would have made it a 210R . I gave the idea up because I didn't want anyone to accuse me of being half-Harted about my racing ....

[big andy]

112bhp /110ft lb

[rallycrosscraig]

there was a fiat 500 special saloon that raced at ingliston a few times in the 80's it had an A series 1300 engine, I remember it used to spin a lot of the time, wonder if its the same car? cant remember who was driving it...