Should we go Chase system for V8's

[bludvl_x19]

Originally Posted by peckstar

it might be easier if you could show me one who isnt.

they want more safety, a fair call, but so far they havent come up with one suggestions that wont influence the quality of the racing and as a result make it more contrived.

but thats a side issue, dont get distracted from the point of the thread

Challenge accepted. I found one, and you are talking to him. Now, show me one flaggie who has made a statement that supports your argument...

Yes, all people working trackside want (and deserve) to be able to work safely. I have seen recoveries undertaken safely under DWY at the point, taking out only one corner of racing, rather than shutting down all the racing and using the SC. Huh, it sounds like trackside officials actually want to stop the contrived racing...who would have thunk it.

All it takes is for the drivers to play ball and slow down themselves. The best drivers briefing I got to listen to, the Clerk of Course said "if you help us by slowing down at a yellow flag, we can help you by keeping the racing uninterrupted." The drivers listened, the SC stayed in it's parking spot all weekend.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by Axeman444

you made the statement, how about you back it up, rather than forcing others to do so? contrived while some may call "artificial", means planned, ie what some call the "entertainment car". This is at times understandable, eg 30 laps to go at Bathurst, or any NASCAR event.

closure of the pits is to help with safety, not to plan any closure of gaps between a dominating leader and the rest of the pack. to consider the safety of driver, marshall and recovery crews with a brush this broad is ridiculous

Good on you, its all through this forum, i really cant be bothered with your request

But let me say again, everytime a flaggie asked for the pits to be closed so that cars dont race back to the pits, so that the clean up crew can get to the car stuck in the sand a precious minute earlier then they have asked for the racing to become more contrived, yes its in the name of safety, but it still makes the racing more artificial. you can argue thats its not the plan, but its the result, So come up with something better than bludvl_x19 "All it takes is for the drivers to play ball and slow down themselves." because that is a crap inexact science that is already happening, but its not enough and just creates a more dangerous workplace

and now heres a question, when was the last time we had a "entertainment safety car"? In my opinion it is many years since we had one, Now days they tend to be for good reason.

But this is about the chase, if you want to argur safety go and discuss in in the countless arguments i have had with people on here, thats what search is for

[Axeman444]

Originally Posted by peckstar

Good on you, its all through this forum, i really cant be bothered with your request

But let me say again, everytime a flaggie asked for the pits to be closed so that cars dont race back to the pits, so that the clean up crew can get to the car stuck in the sand a precious minute earlier then they have asked for the racing to become more contrived, yes its in the name of safety, but it still makes the racing more artificial. you can argue thats its not the plan, but its the result, So come up with something better than bludvl_x19 "All it takes is for the drivers to play ball and slow down themselves." because that is a crap inexact science that is already happening, but its not enough and just creates a more dangerous workplace

and now heres a question, when was the last time we had a "entertainment safety car"? In my opinion it is many years since we had one, Now days they tend to be for good reason.

But this is about the chase, if you want to argur safety go and discuss in in the countless arguments i have had with people on here, thats what search is for

you make statements about other people's posts that you can't be bothered backing up? no wonder you have countless arguments...

[peckstar]

so basically you have no comeback, stick to the topic

its all here on ten tenths, if you are that interested go and look it up,

[formerf1champ]

Originally Posted by peckstar

you know the days when people won bathurst by laps, and the race was over by lunchtime, as opposed to now when cars are challenging for the lead in the final laps

But apparantly now the racing is predictable

Nah man, that was just the natural form of racing. It may not have been a thrill-a-minute but it wasn't meant to be, Motorsport is not a combative sport. There may have been dead periods, but what do you expect from a seven hour race? Nowadays, too many of us have seen, too often that the first six hours is insignificant and we're just waiting for the last 1/2 hour, hour...and in the end we know 888 are going to win. Reading some of your posts, I don't know how you could've possibly got into motorsport in the first place.

A problem I have with the V8Supercar community is that they do everything to encourage people who aren't into motorsport, Why? Stuff'em I say, if they're that stupid they shouldn't be there in the first place! And what's the result of their effort? 17,000 at PI, it's joke! On In Pit Lane they said more come to the PI Historics, I wasn't there last weekend, I'll be there next month for the Vic.State series, and next year for the PI Historics (unless I'm playing in cricket final) couldn't care less if it's "exciting" racing or not!

Also...Where are the iconic cars nowadays?...chock-a-block in the past, more than made up for "crap racing".

[Axeman444]

Originally Posted by formerf1champ

Reading some of your posts, I don't know how you could've possibly got into motorsport in the first place.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by formerf1champ

Nah man, that was just the natural form of racing. It may not have been a thrill-a-minute but it wasn't meant to be, Motorsport is not a combative sport. There may have been dead periods, but what do you expect from a seven hour race? Nowadays, too many of us have seen, too often that the first six hours is insignificant and we're just waiting for the last 1/2 hour, hour...and in the end we know 888 are going to win. Reading some of your posts, I don't know how you could've possibly got into motorsport in the first place.

A problem I have with the V8Supercar community is that they do everything to encourage people who aren't into motorsport, Why? Stuff'em I say, if they're that stupid they shouldn't be there in the first place! And what's the result of their effort? 17,000 at PI, it's joke! On In Pit Lane they said more come to the PI Historics, I wasn't there last weekend, I'll be there next month for the Vic.State series, and next year for the PI Historics (unless I'm playing in cricket final) couldn't care less if it's "exciting" racing or not!

Also...Where are the iconic cars nowadays?...chock-a-block in the past, more than made up for "crap racing".

Fortunately for motorsport in this country, You are not in charge.

and its great that you have your old fashion ways of thinking about motorsport, its exactaly that thinking that means many of the tracks of old are no longer around, "Stuff what people want" say the old timers, "just give me what I want"

Fortunately there are people a lot more broad minded than yourself that want to grow motorsport and take it to a new generation and have been, certainly want those that live in the past.

and i know you will find this hard to believe , but motorsport is a lot bigger than cars, its about drivers and teams and brands and having a good time watching the racing

To say that you wonder how i got into motorsport, well to be honest, its no thanks to you, because if you had your way, there wouldnt be spectators, and the looney left would have shut down most forms of motrsport int he land, and people wouldnt be racing because there would be no where to race and probably only a few grumpy old men to race

as for axeman, well do you actually have anything to say to add to the topic. or are you just constantly going to have a go at me, back in your cave troll

[Woolley]

Two quick reminders to the various people involved in this thread:

1) Attack the post, not the poster.
2) Topic.

We seem to be having trouble with both of those points at the moment.

[formerf1champ]

Originally Posted by peckstar

Fortunately for motorsport in this country, You are not in charge.

What's this supposed to mean? If I had the experience and qualifications necessary to govern Australian Motorsport, I would use that to enhance Australian Motorsport (or where applicable, damage limitation), rather than using Australian Motosrport to enhace my business. Does that remind you anyone or any catergory/organsation in particular?

Originally Posted by peckstar

and its great that you have your old fashion ways of thinking about motorsport, its exactaly that thinking that means many of the tracks of old are no longer around, "Stuff what people want" say the old timers, "just give me what I want"

I don't what to make of this, you need to clarify further.

Originally Posted by peckstar

Fortunately there are people a lot more broad minded than yourself that want to grow motorsport and take it to a new generation and have been, certainly want those that live in the past.

Who are those people and what have they done?

Grow Motosrport? To where? How big? Becoming mainstream perhaps? Ha, good luck with that! Because they're going to need a whole lot of it and then some to achieve mainstream acceptance. Motorsport, fundamentally, is an alternative sport and also not community driven, therefore will never have universal mainstream acceptance like a footy code does. The only reason some motorsport gets any mainstrean attention, like F1, is because it's so popular that not even the mainstream media can ignore it, and even then it's minimal and with antipathy. Look at the AGP nowadays for instance, the focus is always on the $50 mil cost, rather than the benefit of it being there or that it's good that it's just here. The mainstream media aren't into it and resent having to give it attention, as they should, especially since it will take some attention away from the footy. Where are those "broad minded people" standing up defending the GP? They say nothing, don't they? If anything are trying to pot the GP themselves or take advantage of it for there own benefit. Believe it or not, the "broad minded" ones are the people who realise there's no point in trying to "grow" motorsport and gain/increase mainstream attention (other sports are doing/thinking similar things).

Originally Posted by peckstar

and i know you will find this hard to believe , but motorsport is a lot bigger than cars, its about drivers and teams and brands and having a good time watching the racing

Are you freakin kidding? That is blasphemy! The drivers drive the cars, the teams build/prepare the cars, the brands use the cars, people watch the cars. MOTORSPORT IS THE CARS! Without cars there's no "car" racing, just "racing". Without a motor there's no "motor"sport, Get it? Without cars there's just a bunch of people with nothing to do. Com'on man, I may never reach the exospheric heights of 6000+ posts but you got to come to grips with what's going on, that or stop trolling...motorsport is a lot bigger than cars...geesh!

[Falcadore]

Originally Posted by fomoco

So you are happy with a system that allows a driver never to win but come 2,3,4, an acumulate enough points to win a Championship, even thow he never won a race?

Just seeking options to make racing a bit more interesting.
As other have said look a football, top teams go for it, some win some loose.

F1, we should hand Vetel the trophy now, and not do the last races.
( save a lot of money by the punters and teams not having to travel)

as they say in Davis Cup tennis, a DEAD RUBBER

Cancelling the remainder of the team would not save a lot of money for Brazil, Japan et al GP organisers who have not had over 30 home and away Grands Prix at their venue during the season.

So you think the champion should never awarded to an accumulator under any circumstances? Then you're advocating the points system that gives one point for a race win and no points for anybody else? If not then you've compromised your arguement. And you'd still have (at least) two outspoken team bosses coming after with a death stare - remember when V8s briefly had a points system that stopped at 15th and the months of campaigning two teams underwent to dismantle it?

So really while it might seem like a good idea those running the sport would never seriously consider it.

[Falcadore]

Originally Posted by dsg

One of the problems with combining sprint and endurance races in a single championship. Split them into two separate championships and allow drivers to team up for the endurance races.

V8 Supercars spent years incorporating the endurance races working on the correct assumption that if you did not go about a campaign of de-emphasing Bathurst it would hold the championship as a whole back. As long as Bathurst could overshadow the championship then VESA as an organisation had failed, hence the huge promotional pushes they've given Adelaide and other street races, with some times two-three times the PR spend than what they spend pushing Bathurst because of course Bathurst promotes itself.

Having achieved that level of balance it would be insanity for them to separate the endurance races back out from the championship because it would give many people, TV audience, news providers etc, the opportunity to ignore completely the sprint rounds.

So no, it's not an idea that would gain any traction with those who run the sport.

[Falcadore]

Originally Posted by peckstar

predictable is ther word thats being flashed around in these forums at the moment by others

what do you mean by contrived though, the safety car was bought in well before V8S came along and until we geta better system, thats all we can do.

Apparantly safety is important and if you listen to the flaggies on here, they want to do even more to make the racing contrived in the name of safety

Indeed it is higly disrespectful to the race officials, who are not just volunteers, but have to PAY substantial sums of money (they get little or no support for their travel and accomodation expenses and provide their own equipment) to be given the opportunity serve people who frequently do not appreciate their efforts.

Their safety should absolutely be given precedence over perceived levels of racing purity or sportsmanship - for lack of a better words.

[Axeman444]

Originally Posted by Falcadore

Their safety should absolutely be given precedence over perceived levels of racing purity or sportsmanship - for lack of a better words.

and sanity returns to the thread...

Should we have a chase system, well look at whats happening in NASCAR now, Smoke barely scrapes into the Chase, and now has 2 from 2 wins. If apples were being compared with apples, can you imagine Lee Holdsworth leading and potentially being awarded the championship after the season he has had so far? That is the situation we could have been in

[dsg]

Originally Posted by Falcadore

So no, it's not an idea that would gain any traction with those who run the sport.

Unfortunately you are correct about an endurance championship but I can still dream. I think the teams would also be against a chase system however on this point we would be in agreement.

[formerf1champ]

Originally Posted by Falcadore

Having achieved that level of balance it would be insanity for them to separate the endurance races back out from the championship because it would give many people, TV audience, news providers etc, the opportunity to ignore completely the sprint rounds.

I don't get it. Why would tv audiences, news providers, etc. ignore the sprint rounds if, fundamentally, it is a good product or there is genuine affection for the event/series in the first place?

[Axeman444]

Originally Posted by formerf1champ

I don't get it. Why would tv audiences, news providers, etc. ignore the sprint rounds if, fundamentally, it is a good product or there is genuine affection for the event/series in the first place?

is that rhetorical?

[formerf1champ]

Originally Posted by Axeman444

is that rhetorical?

Nope, serious question. Haven't got the time now, so I'll explain further what I mean later.

[formerf1champ]

Originally Posted by formerf1champ

Nope, serious question. Haven't got the time now, so I'll explain further what I mean later.

Falcadore was saying that if Bathurst reverted back to a non-champ race or part of a smaller enduro series, mainstream attention of the series overall would drop to how it was pre-Cochrane, ATCC/Sandown could come and go without the wider audience noticing, yes?

That being the case, with all the big talk and razzle dazzle Cochrane/VESA have been going on with for the last 15 years, What have they been doing all this time? I mean, they've done a good job lessening Bathurst (hence, Trev Campbell's thread), but the series should be able to maintain mainstream attention even without Bathurst (or not too far away from) if Cochrane/VESA had a clue of what they were doing.

For the notion that a separate sprint/enduro series wouldn't work (particularly the series missing Bathurst), there could be an argument the other way. Attention could be maintained with a sprint "drivers" title for the first 1/2, 2/3s of the year and for the rest an enduro "teams" title. The sprint series should be popular because it's the drivers title, and we all want to know who is the gun driver. And an enduro "teams" title could maintain further attention, particularly amongst non/passing interest fans, because a weakness of motorsport as a whole, amongst non/passing interest fans, is that it isn't a team sport.

Do you get what I'm saying?