Demise of the Great Race

[Stram_man]

Oh yes Peckstar, from the mid 70's to the early 90's Brock won it 6 times; quite predictable wasn't it.

[Casper]

Originally Posted by dsg

In regards to the racing, haven’t the biggest teams usually won?

Not always and usually because someone with a bit of ingenuity took a gamble. Ingenuity has been outlawed these days so that means the most money wins = BORING.

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by peckstar

everytime TC makes an attempt to liven it, the moaning taht occurs on this forum (and others) is unbelievable

Remmber when he brought in reverse grids, the howls of indignation,

What about a chase at the end of the season, well check out the thread and see the support

Too many people who dont like change and then what happens those same people complain that things are boring and predictable

No wonder TC is taking the racing OS, it gets it away from the moaners

TC hasn't attempted what I would do........but then I get howled down every time I mention it.

[mac]

I'm in two minds about this thread...

I was at last year's race, and it just felt like a normal V8 Supercar round at a track where you can't see much and there are more people... There didn't seem to be anything overly special about it.

However, the first car I watched go through Sulman Park at full tilt got me all tingly inside again... Make no mistake, Bathurst is still Bathurst - and if you love racing, sitting on a patch of grass, watching 25 cars go flying over the top of the mountain 161 times up close on a Sunday will ALWAYS do it for you...

My biggest gripe is with the telecast... Back in the day you could follow any number of different stories as they developed through the day, as the presenters kept you abreast of the situation regularly - working their way through the field.

Now, instead of finding out what put Car 21 out of the race, or how Car 8 is progressing through the field on the alternate strategy they were forced to go on when they got a puncture on Lap 9, we are given endless coverage of Mark Skaife, Team Vodafone and a few bit part players like Tander, Courtney and Winterbottom.

[ford71]

Originally Posted by mac

....... we are given endless coverage of Mark Skaife, Team Vodafone

I was hoping they would reduce this in 2011.
PI weekend tells me I'm dreaming.
There is a lot more to the weekend than whats happening in 888's corner.
Maybe, just maybe, Bathurst telecast will focus on some of the other 20+ cars.
I have no problem with Skaife co-driving with Lowndes, there is no dislike or sour grapes, whatever, but I don't need constant updates on the one team, (unless its SBR or DJR )

[hey charger]

Well I go to the historic race meetings.

It's great to see the old cars and racing, although only sprints, are a great source of enjoyment. Forget "the main game" it's incredible how much more enjoyable local, "amateur" race meetings are.

I know I'm a dinosaur but I dont suffer from boredom or endless ads.

Hey Charger

[GROUPA]

Have been to the mountain twice in Group A days and once for V8SC.

Please bring back the sprint round

V8SC has lost me, I'm off to Europe next year and can't wait to go to a DTM round or 2.

[formerf1champ]

Originally Posted by GROUPA

I'm off to Europe next year and can't wait to go to a DTM round or 2.

Don't know if you read any European forums or have seen DTM, but DTM has a reputation for being a high-speed procession, at least you'll be holidaying in Europe.

[nafe!]

Leaving the crowd alone, there are other issues that are more fundamental in my opinion.

The fact that its a championship round for a start...take it back to standalone.

That will allow for any team with an eligible V8supercar to enter. If they can qualify within 107% let them race. Bring back the spectacle of the 40+ fields.

Ensure adequate retrieval machinary is available around the circuit. By this i mean heavy machinary that can quickly drag a stricken vehicle into a safe spot, and most importantly allow this to happen under yellow.

Its really not that hard, f1 does it every year and all you have to do is enforce speed control under yellow like f1 also does.

This leads me to something that has killed the true Bathurst race thanks to V8supercar officialdom....the safety car. Stop deploying it for absolutely anything, i swear a moth could land on the track and they would deploy a safety car.

We all know at bathurst that safety cars lead to more carnage on the restart and as a result possibly endanger more people then had they otherwise not deployed it.

Return it to its original starting time, and get rid of the absolute bull**** time certain finish rules. We are not watching to see the bathurst 930 its the bathurst 1000. If it runs into the early evening so be it.

[chavez]

Originally Posted by nafe!

Return it to its original starting time, and get rid of the absolute bull**** time certain finish rules. We are not watching to see the bathurst 930 its the bathurst 1000. If it runs into the early evening so be it.

The original start time? 9am........ The race would be over by 3:30pm.

One of the few traditions V8 Supercars have kept is moving back the start time as the race has got shorter.

[formerf1champ]

Originally Posted by nafe!

This leads me to something that has killed the true Bathurst race thanks to V8supercar officialdom....the safety car. Stop deploying it for absolutely anything, i swear a moth could land on the track and they would deploy a safety car.

We all know at bathurst that safety cars lead to more carnage on the restart and as a result possibly endanger more people then had they otherwise not deployed it.

Don't forget, when a car has just crashed, is lying on tricky part of the circuit and therefore necessary to release the SC, they don't because there's two laps to go with a battle for the lead/win and they don't want to spoil the "entertainment" (I'm thinking of Bathurst '06).

[Trevor]

Originally Posted by woodduck97

There is not much "great" about the Bathurst 1000 anymore. It is just other round of the V8 circus that just happens to be at Bathurst.

Where is the 'like' button, that is such a true statement woodduck

Originally Posted by mtpanorama

Sorry, can't help you there. The sun was shining and it was a beautiful day so I went outside and did some gardening.

Me too

My sons ask me if I want to go back to the Mount, we were last there is 2002, I have not intention, there is a far better atmosphere camping at Winton.

The people that go to the Mountain these days go to relive the great times and stories of those that have gone before them, and they are now truley disappointed.

It is sanitised like everything else V8 Supercars.

[Trevor]

Originally Posted by nafe!

This leads me to something that has killed the true Bathurst race thanks to V8supercar officialdom....the safety car. Stop deploying it for absolutely anything, i swear a moth could land on the track and they would deploy a safety car.

or a couple of geese

[Airhead]

Originally Posted by hey charger

Well I go to the historic race meetings.

It's great to see the old cars and racing, although only sprints, are a great source of enjoyment. Forget "the main game" it's incredible how much more enjoyable local, "amateur" race meetings are.

I know I'm a dinosaur but I dont suffer from boredom or endless ads.

Hey Charger

you wouldn't be alone either.

[David Towe]

The surprising thing about this thread is that it took Pecky 22 posts before his usual defence of all things V8.

I watched the start and the first half a lap on Sunday of PI but I have to declare an obvious liking for the old 60+ grids of the Group A/C days. My theory on the recent trend of "race and rock" is the "rock" is necessary to bring people to the "race".
Sadly people have changed in all areas of life. Gone are the days of getting shattered as I did at the top of the mountain in 84 and staggering around have a friendly chat to all sorts of other spectators. People seem to feel the need to show how tough they are every time they get a serious dose of lunatic soup into them. I feel the good old days will never return and controls are necessary to ensure the safety of others, including the police who are there to help ensure that safety. I wish it could go back to the way it was, on and off the track, but sadly the world has changed and not necessarilly for the better

AMoffat if you get to any historic meetings I'm racing at please feel free to drop in and say hello.

"Gardenning", Mt P ??? I have a mate who said he couldn't come for a bike ride with us one day because he was hanging curtains, we've paid out on him for that for 5 years now.

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by David Towe

The surprising thing about this thread is that it took Pecky 22 posts before his usual defence of all things V8.

I watched the start and the first half a lap on Sunday of PI but I have to declare an obvious liking for the old 60+ grids of the Group A/C days. My theory on the recent trend of "race and rock" is the "rock" is necessary to bring people to the "race".
Sadly people have changed in all areas of life. Gone are the days of getting shattered as I did at the top of the mountain in 84 and staggering around have a friendly chat to all sorts of other spectators. People seem to feel the need to show how tough they are every time they get a serious dose of lunatic soup into them. I feel the good old days will never return and controls are necessary to ensure the safety of others, including the police who are there to help ensure that safety. I wish it could go back to the way it was, on and off the track, but sadly the world has changed and not necessarilly for the better

AMoffat if you get to any historic meetings I'm racing at please feel free to drop in and say hello.

"Gardenning", Mt P ??? I have a mate who said he couldn't come for a bike ride with us one day because he was hanging curtains, we've paid out on him for that for 5 years now.

Ha ha, what i find funny about that is that you didnt say anything that disagreed with me, in fact you basically said the same thing.

I too wish we had bigger grids, 28 is way to small, although at the end we tend to end up with as many cars out there now as we always did, just not at the start

[peckstar]

and then i realised something, read my signature that i have had for two years.

Bathurst is a great race, but the big drawing race weekends have other stuff, Bathurst has not really done that. they have pretty much stuck with the same formula for the last 30 plus years, that formula has been superceeded by weekends like Clipsal

[jiminee]

How many of the Fujitsu Series teams would actually have the cash to prepare and run a car for the 1000km event especially when the leading cars have had their drivers borrowed for the main game teams?
Even if they could just run Bathurst I would be very surprised if more than 1 or 2 could put together a package to compete.
Nothing wrong with any of that, it is just the reality of the situation - even halving it with another team they would need refuelling gear, tyres, a new strong engine, extra crew, extra spares, the list goes on and on.

[Oran Park Forever]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet in the 'old vs new' debate is the sight & sound factor. A huge part of the motor racing experience!

Before V8SC, we would see a change in vehicle types every few years (& plenty more than just 2 choices!) So from the 70s to the 80s/90s, it went from a straight Holden vs Ford (outright class!) to a 4, sometimes five way duel between various makes........with various body shapes & exhaust notes. I went to the 84, 85, 87 & 89 races & the sight & sound show was sensational, thundering Falcons, Camaros & Commies being chased by screaming RX7s, majestic Beemers.........& those Datsuns! Followed a few years later by the Sierra missiles & Godzillas being chased by the big Commies & little Beemers. Throw in the glorious sound of the V12 Jags (which you could hear for the entire "Hardies Heroes" lap from any vantage point!) & the oddest sight of a very fast Volvo in 85 (& a very slow one in 79!) & there you have a smorgasbord of the motor racing experience. & what smorgasbord isn't complete without KB & his immortal Channel 9 Camaro! Year after year he (& Mr Packer!) stuck it up Channel 7 to the delight of everyone....including Mike Raymond! Then when he 'finished' in 82 (as Channel 6!) he jumped the fence & smoked a ciggie care of a thrilled spectator!.........& I don't recall the safety car either!

Turn to V8SC & we are in to the 15th straight year of basically the same s--t...sorry thing! I was there last year (only coz I got invited & didn't cost me my hard earned!) All I saw was a bunch of silhouette Holden taxis 'racing' a bunch of silhouette Falcon taxis........aaaallll look the same......aaaaallllll sound the same (with the slight exception of the Kellys).

Now at this point there'll be a few saying 'yeah but it was boring coz Brocky always won or the Sierra train was predictable & Godzilla was unbeatable'....but the Mountain Fans simply loved the variety & I'm sure most are now the ones who attend historic meetings & the MCMs, after long ago realising that the same meal served up 15 years straight gets kinda dull.


.

[bluesport]

But someone claimed that the people wanted Aussie cars at Bathurst becuase the commodores couldn't beat the turbos, so the turbos got banned and now we're stuck with this s**t.........no one asked me what I wanted that's for sure.........BRING BACK THE TURBOS AND THE VARIETY!!!

[Trev Campbell]

Originally Posted by fomoco

I have to agree the racing is clinacal:

call the Doctor and go back in time:

In the seventies, Drivers would go up to the Mount and have some beers

In the eighties some did, some didn't

in the nineties, the ferals took over. Burnts outs in the camp gounds, burning cars on the mount, burning power poles , every second punk full of f it, screaming show us your %8^&@ to every woman, wife girfriend, etc. Drunken behaviour, I have a video of the 1999 race, wich includes scenes from the mount. Not proud of what we call the great race.

When we walked around, people where slouched in chairs, drunk , sleeping at 11.00 in the morning, on friday, saturday and sunday. WOW real motosport fans. Tent site, $50.00, $1000.00 worth of beer, watching the race, ****ed and missed it.

To all the proffesors out there, Go to Daytona, go to Le Mans, go to a few other pinicle races , do the fans do that, as we allowed at the mount.

Remember it was the top teams back in the eighties that called for all the other cars to get of the track, Larry Perkins was a lead vocalist, get rid of these sunday drivers, that is those who came once a year to have a crack at the mount.

I would like to see the more cars on the grid, considering a number of Fujisu cars are actually last years level cars, why not.

AS for the fun Police, get a grip. Drunken bumbs, no interest in motorsport trowling around Bathurst causing trouble, if that is what you want, head west, further than Bathurts, have every shade of red flannel shirt, have beckie-sue, and billy-bob-joe , where "All in the family show" is actually real, and build your own dirt track, and get your sisters and brothers kids to supply the local home brew and ye hah.

I honestly thouht that we had passed this decade and where progressing towards a family friendly enviroment.

IF you want racing to go back, then pester V8's to include more than a couple of wild cards. If you want the old Mount, go to the Gold Coast and get on the turps at the hairpin.
I have been a marshall at this point a couple of times, and it is scary of what goes on behind you.

Sorry, I don't believe our counter parts overseas would allow the bad old days of the mount to creep into their prestiges races.

Did you actually read my post ??? I said I didn't condone the behaviour, However when I first started going to Bathurst there were a lot of guys doing burnouts, which were relatively harmless. And it provided some after hours entertainment. The fact that the event was highjacked by the drunken morons who only came to burn cars and create havoc is what has lead to the 'fun police' state that I mentioned.

But this doesn't get away from the fact that the promoters of the event IMG/V8Supercars have not provided any entertainment for the patrons once the racing stops. This is why the burnouts started in the first place. At supposedly the biggest race of the year the lack of effort put into the event is disgraceful.

[Green Hornet]

Originally Posted by Trev Campbell

But this doesn't get away from the fact that the promoters of the event IMG/V8Supercars have not provided any entertainment for the patrons once the racing stops. This is why the burnouts started in the first place. At supposedly the biggest race of the year the lack of effort put into the event is disgraceful.

I have missed three Bathurst long distance races since the '60s and I reckon its a better race these days - potentially anyone can win now - not that there was anything wrong with any of the 50-odd I have seen. Mind you I don't stick around for after hours entertainment, just head to any one of the pubs and clubs afterwards or settle in for a few quiet ones at my digs.

[Airhead]

Originally Posted by David Towe

The surprising thing about this thread is that it took Pecky 22 posts before his usual defence of all things V8.


AMoffat if you get to any historic meetings I'm racing at please feel free to drop in and say hello.

I look forward to the day mate, plus having returned I need to change my nickname, it embarrasses me now.

[nafe!]

Originally Posted by chavez

The original start time? 9am........ The race would be over by 3:30pm.

One of the few traditions V8 Supercars have kept is moving back the start time as the race has got shorter.

That actually reminds me of something ive thought for some time. Make it a 1000 Mile race not km. You keep the name and the history that goes with it, but all of a sudden turn it back into an endurance race.

Regarding the teams not being able to afford the 1000 race, the B12hr race serves as my reply...plenty of once a year warriors turn up with the cash to back a major endurance race in gt or production machinary.

[GTRMagic]

Wasnt the original Ivan Stibbard/ARDC mandated start time of the Great Race actually 10.00 am. On the dot?