2014 - Heritage Touring Cup - Peter Auto

[Duddha]

Some of you will remember our 2013 Spa-Classic touring car race with some drivers and fellow "10 Tenthers" taking part in it !

This race was a trial for what would become our new for 2014 series.

And here comes the HERITAGE TOURING CUP for Touring Cars of the 1966-1984 period.

Looking at the period, the aim is to bring back the golden years of the ETCC.

Group 1, Group 1B, Group 2 and Group A are welcomed with the aim of respecting the period specification and authenticity.

Not an easy task with touring cars but as usual, we aim to work with the competitors and "period" or "category" expert which can be found here to build our regulations.

Everything will not be perfect for our first year but I hope that you will join us for some good and attractive track action.

Let's talk about the Heritage Touring Cup itself :

3 Races for 2014 starting with Spa-Classic (16-18 of May) with a special "spirit of the 24H de francorchamps" format, then the Grand Prix de l'Age d'Or (6-8 of June) and last, the Dix Mille Tours du Castellet (3-5 of October).

Track time :

Dijon & Castellet :

30' untimed practice session - 40' qualifying - 60' race (1 or 2 drivers).

Spa-Classic Endurance :

Day free practice: 1 x 40' - Night free practice: 1 x 30'
Day Qualifications: 1 x 40' - Races: 2 x 60' (1 or 2 drivers).

Tyre regulations :

Slicks for cars which ran on slicks in period, basically 1972 up to 1984.
Threaded tyres for all others (modern pattern are forbidden (Yoko, etc..).

Group 1 & Group 1B are being clarified as certain championship ran on slicks and others still had threaded tyres in period (help welcomed !).



I'm in charge of this new challenge and don't hesitate to contact me by PM or directly by email - lquiniou@peter.fr

Other important point, Carol Spagg U2TC will be supporting us at Spa, Dijon and Le Castellet.

[Duddha]

Already have some season entry for the series, with CSLs, 635csi, and others...!

It's looking good !

If anyone of you is interested in the series, the entry form is available on our website - http://peterauto.peter.fr

And last, if you are attending Retromobile in Paris next month, we will have our own stand and you'll be welcome to come and meet us on our stand :

Peter Auto - Hall 1 / Allée P / Numéro 27

[chunterer]

Louis perhaps in 2015 you will consider adding a UK round to your calendar?

[Duddha]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Louis perhaps in 2015 you will consider adding a UK round to your calendar?

Maybe, if the Brits show interest and that they come and support us this year I don't see any reason why we would not be coming to England !

[John Turner]

Louis, I wish you every success with this. Could be fantastic if enough cars come out.

[Peter Mallett]

As ever work commitments may change things but if we can then I'd like to enter this.

[AntA35]

Originally Posted by Duddha

Slicks for cars which ran on slicks in period, basically 1972 up to 1984.
Threaded tyres for all others (modern pattern are forbidden (Yoko, etc..).

Group 1 & Group 1B are being clarified as certain championship ran on slicks and others still had threaded tyres in period (help welcomed !).

I'm in charge of this new challenge and don't hesitate to contact me by PM or directly by email - lquiniou@peter.fr

Hi Louis, its good to see your series growing and some new dates added to the calendar. As a Group 1 / 1B car owner I'd prefer to see them run on slicks as per period. It was slicks in the UK and also in Belgium (my car is Belgian) and so it would seem most appropriate to me to put them all on slicks.

Which countries had treaded tyres for Group 1 / 1B in period?

[Duddha]

Originally Posted by AntA35

Hi Louis, its good to see your series growing and some new dates added to the calendar. As a Group 1 / 1B car owner I'd prefer to see them run on slicks as per period. It was slicks in the UK and also in Belgium (my car is Belgian) and so it would seem most appropriate to me to put them all on slicks.

Which countries had treaded tyres for Group 1 / 1B in period?

Hi, thanks for your feedback and that's what we are heading for.

The rule would be simple and made of the proof I've found in the books, mainly pictures.

For Group 2, it seems that all cars ran on threaded tyres up to 71 and then started switching to slicks so then it will be threaded for up to 71 and then slicks from 72 and onward.

If you run a GTAm, you can do both, because they ran for a long period but then you just have to choose according to the spec of your car, either 71 or 72 or 73,...

For Group 1, I've found pictures where some cars had threaded tyres in France, of course the front of the pack was on slicks and then you choose what you want to do. I know belgium was slicks, and england too and Group 1 really started in 72,73 because of the Francorchamps cat. and the fact that a lot of national championship switched to this type of rules.

Would that seems correct ?

[simon drabble]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

As ever work commitments may change things but if we can then I'd like to enter this.

Peter that is a brave project and having finally come to the final straight on my build I wish you luck! Remember you are doing out of love not profit and keep the faith!!

[AntA35]

Originally Posted by Duddha

Hi, thanks for your feedback and that's what we are heading for.

The rule would be simple and made of the proof I've found in the books, mainly pictures.

For Group 2, it seems that all cars ran on threaded tyres up to 71 and then started switching to slicks so then it will be threaded for up to 71 and then slicks from 72 and onward.

If you run a GTAm, you can do both, because they ran for a long period but then you just have to choose according to the spec of your car, either 71 or 72 or 73,...

For Group 1, I've found pictures where some cars had threaded tyres in France, of course the front of the pack was on slicks and then you choose what you want to do. I know belgium was slicks, and england too and Group 1 really started in 72,73 because of the Francorchamps cat. and the fact that a lot of national championship switched to this type of rules.

Would that seems correct ?

Keeping the discussion open whilst the series gathers more cars would seem the logical way forward and I applaud you for taking a consultative approach. As for the tyres used in each country in period I don't have a great knowledge on this, but I'm sure someone will be along soon who has some more authoritative answers on this element.

I think if the series can grow that allows slicks and treaded tyres to race together by means of the owner making a choice I'm pretty certain the obvious and logical solution will present itself.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by simon drabble

Peter that is a brave project and having finally come to the final straight on my build I wish you luck! Remember you are doing out of love not profit and keep the faith!!

Agreed, I was thinking of going the Group A route but frankly the expertise needed to run a Group A car is far more than a Group 1 car so we were lucky and found what is possibly the only ex works Group 1 Rover remaining. You can see the story here: http://mallettracing.blogspot.ae/201...ild-rover.html There are some minor inaccuracies here but I'll correct them when the car hits the tracks.

As to its value, that depends on whether anyone wants to buy it when I sell it. But right now I'm looking forward to getting behind the wheel.

Louis. I suggest slicks for Groups 1, 1B, 2 and A.

[Duddha]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Agreed, I was thinking of going the Group A route but frankly the expertise needed to run a Group A car is far more than a Group 1 car so we were lucky and found what is possibly the only ex works Group 1 Rover remaining. You can see the story here: http://mallettracing.blogspot.ae/201...ild-rover.html There are some minor inaccuracies here but I'll correct them when the car hits the tracks.

As to its value, that depends on whether anyone wants to buy it when I sell it. But right now I'm looking forward to getting behind the wheel.

Louis. I suggest slicks for Groups 1, 1B, 2 and A.

Thanks for your feedback Peter but would you let cars race on slicks for the whole 1966-1984 period or just the 1972-1984 as it was in period ?

[Peter Mallett]

I was waiting for that. The 72 onwards period. Prior to that they ran on treaded tyres but IIRC there was a specific tyre that many use which had a fairly soft tread and effectively became a slick after a couple of laps. I think it was a Firestone product.

[Mike Bell]

I know Ant has talked a while back about the difficulty getting smaller sized slicks for cars like his Dolomite, RS2000 etc. Has the situation improved? I'm talking period crossply tyres, not the modern stuff of a formula car! I hope to be cracking on with the Mk2 Escy soon and would like to run on period correct rubber when the time arrives.....

[john ruston]

Amazing that Peter Auto are the only organiser who bothers to get directly involved on this forum and good of them!

[AntA35]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

I know Ant has talked a while back about the difficulty getting smaller sized slicks for cars like his Dolomite, RS2000 etc. Has the situation improved? I'm talking period crossply tyres, not the modern stuff of a formula car! I hope to be cracking on with the Mk2 Escy soon and would like to run on period correct rubber when the time arrives.....

As far as I am aware no-one is yet offering a tyre that is exactly what I would like, although there are some that are sort of close, Avon in particular. There are also some that are exactly the size I would like, but currently appear to be radials (as opposed to cross ply), or are for single seater application only. Interestingly, I've just noted that the control tyres for "Formula Masters" are exactly the size that I could do with but again with them being single seaters the loadings are probably different and I would have thought them to be radials by construction.

Giti GTR1 is the control tyre used for Formula Masters. Size 185/550-13 is used for the fronts which is the size I need. Anyone know their construction, or anything about them? The tyres beyond this 13 inch size appear to be used for all types of touring cars, so I wonder if they might actually be OK for loading, but I assume because they are used on modern touring cars they must be of radial construction.

[morninggents]

Originally Posted by john ruston

Amazing that Peter Auto are the only organiser who bothers to get directly involved on this forum and good of them!

Not entirely true, JR. Chris Sharples, Chairman of the HSCC, is a fairly regular contributor.

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by AntA35

Giti GTR1 is the control tyre used for Formula Masters. Size 185/550-13 is used for the fronts which is the size I need. Anyone know their construction, or anything about them? The tyres beyond this 13 inch size appear to be used for all types of touring cars, so I wonder if they might actually be OK for loading, but I assume because they are used on modern touring cars they must be of radial construction.

Hadn't heard of Giti before! I would guess your assumption is correct as can't see any modern single seater formula running on old technology tyres. I know that with road tyres the 'R' in the middle of the size denotes radial construction, and had always assumed that radials were measured in millimetres while cross plies were in inches. That may be totally wrong! I have witnessed a Gp2 car running on Michelin formula Renault tyres with modern wet weather pattern. Very effective on that day in the wet but not exactly period....

[Alan Morgan]

Originally Posted by morninggents

Not entirely true, JR. Chris Sharples, Chairman of the HSCC, is a fairly regular contributor.

...and some HSCC board members also contribute on occasion. Even though Chris only contributes infrequently I know he is a regular visitor to Ten-Tenths.

[AntA35]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

Hadn't heard of Giti before! I would guess your assumption is correct as can't see any modern single seater formula running on old technology tyres. I know that with road tyres the 'R' in the middle of the size denotes radial construction, and had always assumed that radials were measured in millimetres while cross plies were in inches. That may be totally wrong! I have witnessed a Gp2 car running on Michelin formula Renault tyres with modern wet weather pattern. Very effective on that day in the wet but not exactly period....

I agree Mike, the Giti ones are likely to be modern construction and not really suitable. However the tyre size in millimetres with rim diameter in inches would appear to be as used in period. I have a set of Dunlop slicks size 185/550-13, as marked on the sidewall, from the 70's that came with the car. I also have an Abingdon Special Tuning parts list from 1978 listing them in this size as well. So mm were definitely used for cross plies.

What size slick would the Gp1 mk2 RS2000 use? I assume 13" rim, perhaps the same size as the Dolly? Maybe we all need to start putting some pressure on HP Tyres to try and sort something out (my attempts so far have come to naught).

[john ruston]

Am aware that Chris does but not to the extent that Peter Auto push their stuff.

It's a great introduction to the forum.

Suppose it's British reticence that prevents it.

Sure you would all want HSCC ,VSCC,MRL,GTSCC and Masters to push their events and explain precisely what's going on .

They are all good and sensible people and it is a thankless task to try to keep all their punters happy.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by john ruston

They are all good and sensible people and it is a thankless task to try to keep all their punters happy.

This is, in my opinion, the crux of the matter. Very few of us posters actually give credit, or indeed praise to the organisers, preferring to complain at costs of entries etc. That then means the organizers will be reluctant to join in.

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by AntA35

I agree Mike, the Giti ones are likely to be modern construction and not really suitable. However the tyre size in millimetres with rim diameter in inches would appear to be as used in period. I have a set of Dunlop slicks size 185/550-13, as marked on the sidewall, from the 70's that came with the car. I also have an Abingdon Special Tuning parts list from 1978 listing them in this size as well. So mm were definitely used for cross plies.

What size slick would the Gp1 mk2 RS2000 use? I assume 13" rim, perhaps the same size as the Dolly? Maybe we all need to start putting some pressure on HP Tyres to try and sort something out (my attempts so far have come to naught).

Yes, Escort, Dolly, Firenza, Capri and many other cars were on 13s. RS2 would sure be same as yours. Looking at Avon list there are many sizes of 13" tyres listed, smallest diameter being 19.5" Maybe too big?. I will have a chat with BMTR later and get myself some more knowledge, although sure you have done that already!

Agree with you, Peter and John!

[Mike Bell]

BMTR are getting their heads together regarding Avon slicks that could be suitable for Gp1 cars on narrower 13" rims, so watch this space- hopefully they can come up with something!

[AntA35]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

BMTR are getting their heads together regarding Avon slicks that could be suitable for Gp1 cars on narrower 13" rims, so watch this space- hopefully they can come up with something!

That's terrific news Mike, well done. Perhaps we could assist by amalgamating tyre sizes into a list for them.