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Old 21 Aug 2018, 07:27 (Ref:3845126)   #26
Simon Hadfield
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I have been asking in many places! The simple point is that NO ONE KNOWS! The post from Alfaholic is the most clear information I've had to date, and even he cautions that they don't really know.
I do realise that we are some way down the food chain but as I've said earlier it's not a sound basis to try to run a business.
I have seen the 24 month "transition period" concept floated in the news but again does that include sport? Do we have to comply with all the intended paperwork during that period or can we carry on as we are?
It's not fun being a mushroom......
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Old 21 Aug 2018, 07:39 (Ref:3845127)   #27
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From my discussions with the FIA their current take on it is that for them everything remains as it is. The HTP is an International document and their licencing requirements are laid down in the appropriate Appendix. The licences of course are a matter for the ASN, which are sovereign in their own border, and what the EU and the UK decide to do is nothing to do with them.
Reading between the lines I suspect much like the "no deal" exit would lead to WTO terms similarly any ending of licence reciprocity would bring in full International format racing, with all that entails.
I also rather get the feeling that it's not their problem so they have not lost too much sleep.
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Old 21 Aug 2018, 08:19 (Ref:3845135)   #28
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Simon,
I postulate that you'll download a carnet blank off the net, fill it in, present it at port for checking & stamping, and proceed.
According to their adverts, Cars UK negotiated the exclusive rights for issuing the relevant customs carnet's in the UK sometime ago.

The point of a customs carnet is to show that you have entrusted someone (I forget who - it's a while since I last applied for one!) with enough money to cover potential duties/taxes - e.g. the amount of import duty etc. that would be due if the vehicle does not leave the country.

It is possible that this could be done online assuming you have a high enough credit card limit or have transferred the funds but is likely to be as painful as it always was.

Of course in the old days the values stated for cars was occasionally recorded inaccurately.
In my experience, F3000 teams usually hoped they had been through the customs post before the big budget teams turned up because it was difficult explaining why your car cost a tenth of the price of theirs (hence only depositing a tenth of the amount of money).

And these days it is much easier for customs to check the value of a car so it will be harder to 'save money' (you aren't really saving money just losing access to it until you return the carnet).
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Old 21 Aug 2018, 08:22 (Ref:3845136)   #29
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Simon makes some very good points and I don't profess to know the answers. I do, however think we are being somewhat pessimistic with the border issues. There is no such thing as crashing out, or no deal, since whatever the parties decide, there will be some form of agreement for continuing trade, can't be anything else.

As someone who has spent a significant part of his life working in countries that require visas and work/resident permits the processes are generally painless and these are countries where the infrastructure is, perhaps, less capable than the UK/Europe. Likewise the scaremongering concerning free movement of people around Europe seems a bit OTT since once we pass into the Schengen area the ability to move between states is the same as now. In fact we all need a passport to enter the Schengen area now, so what is the difference? The answer is nothing, unless you want to work, in which case then a work permit will/may be required.

I do expect us racers to have a bit more paperwork to do but, again, I expect it to be a one stop shop where the onus will be on the owner to provide the necessary proofs, once done, unless there are, all of a sudden, many failures or breaches, inspections will be random. Also since Simon and his team will be working for a, presumably, UK based client then the taxation won't/can't change.

Medical expenses will need to be insured against because we in the UK won't be able to take advantage of the local medical care system.

Don't forget there are trucks from all over non EU Europe coming and going now and we don't see the queues we saw back in the 70s/80s. So, unless there are some bureaucrats with an agenda against the UK, trade should continue reasonably smoothly.

Yes, the FIA should have considered this before now, but they're too busy making sure we all start using hybrids.

But, it is clear that the politicians on both sides of the discussion haven't thought things through and thus initially there may well be problems.
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Old 21 Aug 2018, 08:27 (Ref:3845138)   #30
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The whole thing is an utter shambles. However don't we have a two year transition period while we raise the cash? Isn't the real deadline March 2021 or have I misunderstood? Whatever, none of our current leaders have the faintest glimmering of an idea on what to do. How can we get to six months out and not have all our ducks in a row and be telling business how it will work?
Very true - maybe the ardent Brexiteers "who know what they voted for" could explain to the govt. what that is, then they would at least have a starting point!

The two year extension only applies if there is an agreement, if there is "no deal" then the cliff edge is reached in March next year.
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Old 21 Aug 2018, 09:05 (Ref:3845143)   #31
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This is nothing to do with the FIA, as described above, in their eyes nothing has changed. ASNs are completely sovereign in their own borders, and any cross recognition of licences etc is, providing it meets certain statutes, an issue only for those ASNs concerned.
They do still have a carnet department however!
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Old 21 Aug 2018, 09:07 (Ref:3845145)   #32
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Having no vested interest in the subject, not even owning a passport, I should not comment, however, one point that makes me wonder is how do the customs (whoever they are) value a forty odd year old car?

You pay several £10,000's for a 1965 F3 car for instance (figure plucked from the ether), but at the end of the day it is an obsolete model, and worth only scrap value like any old banger.

Is there a book value available for official use?
Surely the value of any object is what someone is willing to pay for it, and who wants an out-dated racing car?

Just wondering.
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Old 21 Aug 2018, 09:12 (Ref:3845146)   #33
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Auction results, any one of the internet race car sales sites, private ads, there is a huge resource available to HMC.
A mate of mine bought a used Cannondale bike frame in the States on one of our trips, bought it home hand baggage and HMC valued it to within £10 of the price he paid privately.
They do know their job.
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Old 21 Aug 2018, 09:28 (Ref:3845148)   #34
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As ever Simon is talking bucket loads of common sense, and as he says we are all mushrooms.

On a lighter note, in my day in the late 70's and early 80's we always bought packets of 100 Marlboro's in the Duty Free Shop on the boat out and always found Customs men to be very helpful, but that was when the world was sensible
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Old 21 Aug 2018, 09:29 (Ref:3845149)   #35
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Auction results, any one of the internet race car sales sites, private ads, there is a huge resource available to HMC.
A mate of mine bought a used Cannondale bike frame in the States on one of our trips, bought it home hand baggage and HMC valued it to within £10 of the price he paid privately.
They do know their job.
Thanks Simon, the HMC know how to extract money from any situation …. well not from multi-national conglomerates - of course.
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Old 21 Aug 2018, 09:51 (Ref:3845153)   #36
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Auction results, any one of the internet race car sales sites, private ads, there is a huge resource available to HMC.
A mate of mine bought a used Cannondale bike frame in the States on one of our trips, bought it home hand baggage and HMC valued it to within £10 of the price he paid privately.
They do know their job.
Before the interweb became so popular they apparently asked people like Coys.
I wonder if they still use them?

Nowadays they apparently use "market value", so even if you have been lucky enough to buy something cheap the costs are based on a "real-world" value.

It was different before - one time when I was importing a large French car the customs guy said "that wasn't very expensive", I replied that it was all I could afford!

Another time a friend had just negotiated the import of a classic car, that was surprisingly affordable, and the customs officer said "That was cheap, I've just finished restoring a T-type MG"!
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Old 21 Aug 2018, 10:02 (Ref:3845155)   #37
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Didn't some of them blighters shoot down your uncle?

Too funny . They did , of course, but unlike some of Mr Johnson's more rabid fans , my sense of identity doesn't stop with a rose tinted D Day with a Vera Lynn soundtrack .
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Old 21 Aug 2018, 11:25 (Ref:3845171)   #38
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Too funny . They did , of course, but unlike some of Mr Johnson's more rabid fans , my sense of identity doesn't stop with a rose tinted D Day with a Vera Lynn soundtrack .
The same blighters nearly killed me twice, with their bombs, and I spent a childhood in fear of Doodlebugs, so pardon me if I am less than enthusiastic about a united Eurpoe.
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Old 21 Aug 2018, 12:02 (Ref:3845190)   #39
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23/06/2016- that’s a long time ago, and where are we? Nowhere!

As has been said, the politicians involved in ongoing discussions will not be the slightest bit interested in how it affects motorsport around Europe, but if the eventual agreeement is for a ‘hard’ exit, then we have cause to be concerned. We are indeed mushrooms, and will likely be kept completely in the dark until the lights are suddenly turned on.....

I’m as far removed from being knowledgeable on the subject as anyone, but IMHO unless the unlikely happens and the agreement doesn’t affect borders and movement, then there is going to be a lot of scrambling around to sort out the detail- and it could be a very messy start to 2019...
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Old 21 Aug 2018, 12:45 (Ref:3845200)   #40
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Switzerland is a member of EFTA. Additionally Switzerland has a number of seperate agreements with EU.

(EFTA) = European Free Trade Association

EFTA has deals in place with the EU, which make goods traffic easier.

UK is not a member of the EFTA

Consequence: what happens at the Swiss / EU border is different to what will happen at UK / EU border, should there be no exit treaty.
Then the UK is a 3rd party state and WTO terms apply

Personally I am very much in favor of applying WTO terms to EU / UK goods traffic in both ways after Brexit. But that is, of course, my own personal opinion

RuE
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Old 21 Aug 2018, 13:13 (Ref:3845205)   #41
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Consequence: what happens at the Swiss / EU border is different to what will happen at UK / EU border, should there be no exit treaty.
Then the UK is a 3rd party state and WTO terms apply

Personally I am very much in favor of applying WTO terms to EU / UK goods traffic in both ways after Brexit. But that is, of course, my own personal opinion

RuE
That of course is the "no deal" Brexit which as you can see is not "no deal".
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Old 21 Aug 2018, 14:07 (Ref:3845212)   #42
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Old 21 Aug 2018, 17:18 (Ref:3845241)   #43
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Have you got a Spanish Passport Gordon?
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Old 21 Aug 2018, 17:25 (Ref:3845242)   #44
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Have you got a Spanish Passport Gordon?
No but the guy on the passport control at Almeria airport always give me a wave when we are queuing up
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Old 21 Aug 2018, 17:25 (Ref:3845243)   #45
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He doesn't and won't need one. Where is this bullshit coming from? He had a UK passport when he bought the place.
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Old 21 Aug 2018, 17:45 (Ref:3845248)   #46
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He doesn't and won't need one. Where is this bullshit coming from? He had a UK passport when he bought the place.

Peter, he probably won't require one.

However, the bullshit comes about because of the number of UK citizens who have been applying to EU member states for passports based on their family history, This also apples to a number of fairly well known people.

And this concern about the ramifications of the impending Brexit is also being stoked up by the growing number of companies who are setting up new headquarters in other EU states. And this includes a number of the leading lights behind the big push for a no-deal exit, such as the multi-millionaire Jacob Rees Mogg, MP, who recently opened a new headquarters in Dublin for his investment firm. The irony is that all the business transacted through the Dublin office will be subject to all EU legislation.
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Old 21 Aug 2018, 17:49 (Ref:3845251)   #47
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Well, you’ve obviously got the beer- If you can guarantee pizza and steak being freely available as well, then that’s all the boxes ticked......
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Old 21 Aug 2018, 18:06 (Ref:3845255)   #48
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Mike. I've got colleagues whose first time in Ireland was when They applied for the passport.

Not concerned whether people want to set up businesses in EU states or not. That's a business decision and they can do what they like.

The problem arises when people start twinning about not being able to travel when they either never worked in a EU country and are worried about their holidays, or the are ignorant of the treatment professional foreigners receive when working in a EU state. Believe me the French and the Dutch can be brutal.

That said when Brexit finally happens as personally I hope it does, then life will surprisingly go on pretty much as it is now.
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Old 21 Aug 2018, 21:28 (Ref:3845288)   #49
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Well, you’ve obviously got the beer- If you can guarantee pizza and steak being freely available as well, then that’s all the boxes ticked......
Yes I can guarantee all three, also you can get a Spanish "kwossant"
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Old 21 Aug 2018, 22:14 (Ref:3845292)   #50
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One subject that has been questioned is the UK driving licence, which each have a blue EU symbol in the top left corner that currently enables Britons to drive freely within the EU and European Economic Area (EEA), but all this will change after Brexit.
All licences will eventually have to be replaced to remove the EU symbol and likely, the privileges attached to it.
Also I only renewed my passport the other week so probably a load more aggro and expense !
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