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Old 16 Sep 2018, 10:25 (Ref:3850574)   #101
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I don't think the getting of the carnets is much of an issue, the problem, or hassle, lies more with having to leave motorways to go through a border crossing to get them stamped although my memory fades from the 70s as to whether we only got a stamp at the channel port and didn't bother at each border we crossed.
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Old 16 Sep 2018, 10:46 (Ref:3850580)   #102
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It's all a bit vague but wasn't there something called TIR which meant it dealt with everything at the crossing. And only Spain and Portugal needed separate carnets?
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Old 16 Sep 2018, 17:11 (Ref:3850733)   #103
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It's all a bit vague but wasn't there something called TIR which meant it dealt with everything at the crossing. And only Spain and Portugal needed separate carnets?

Its a bit like technology really - if the WWW went down we would have to learn how to use fax machines, or how to lick a stamp.
Now after years of easy convenience suddenly our journey to Spa might take a wee bit longer. It is as if we have just had it too easy.

So if Brexit means going back to the future ( and we are all crystal ball gazing) then we may have to re-learn about such joys as queuing at borders, customs officers having long lunches. .
So it will be a ball ache in some cases, possibly, but not the end of the world.
I know that I will be shot down for being delusional or naieve but really guys, can it be that bad, really? We all worry about our businesses, or the industry we are in, but life experience tells me that we are on the whole pretty quick to adapt,improvise, etc. and no I am not a gung ho brexiteer, just thinking about possible challenges and what to do. My business will get hit financially but already looking to mitigate that. I appreciate some may not be able to.
Defintely glass half full approach for me. I have travelled a lot, seen many countries and could give so many examples of how people survive and indeed prospered under much worse clouds than a no-deal brexit.
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Old 16 Sep 2018, 18:44 (Ref:3850766)   #104
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My business will get hit financially but already looking to mitigate that. I appreciate some may not be able to.

I have just picked on just one of your comments to highlight my fears about a no deal Brexit.

My fear is that going back in time will lead inevitably lead to a significant rise in the cost of living. And I remember all the hassles we had as a business in the 70s and 80s importing goods, which required us to have to hire our own staff in two ports to facilitate the transit of our containers and tilts through the docks.

I fail to understand why anyone wants to turn the clock back; they were not the good old days.
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Old 17 Sep 2018, 03:25 (Ref:3850918)   #105
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It's all a bit vague but wasn't there something called TIR which meant it dealt with everything at the crossing. And only Spain and Portugal needed separate carnets?

If I remember correctly TIR (Transports Internationaux Routiers) was a system which allowed goods vehicles to be sealed in the country their load originated in & to pass through intermediate borders with no requirement for customs inspection.
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Old 17 Sep 2018, 06:53 (Ref:3850937)   #106
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If I remember correctly TIR (Transports Internationaux Routiers) was a system which allowed goods vehicles to be sealed in the country their load originated in & to pass through intermediate borders with no requirement for customs inspection.
I'd say the same thing. We had to have the seals checked when arrived at the final destination, either a custom officer or a representing person.
In the '80s, we had a kind of hassle too. Importing certain goods from certain countries - say hi-fi from Japan - we had to discuss each year to buy what was called a licence fixing the amount of business we could make over the coming year. The way our government found to protect an industry incapable to match Pioneer or Alpine quality products for instance…
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Old 17 Sep 2018, 07:22 (Ref:3850944)   #107
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I don't think the getting of the carnets is much of an issue, the problem, or hassle, lies more with having to leave motorways to go through a border crossing to get them stamped although my memory fades from the 70s as to whether we only got a stamp at the channel port and didn't bother at each border we crossed.
You used to have to make sure that you got it stamped at every border, otherwise you couldn't show you had left the country and weren't liable for the taxes.
So if you arrived at lunch time or night time you had to wait until someone showed up.
The other issue was the cost of having a large lump of money tied up but it seems that historic racers these days have so much spare money they won't notice!!

The good news is that these days you'd probably only have to get it stamped once, when you leave the Untied Kingdom and enter Europe.
Which probably explains the recruitment drive for customs officers at Zeebrugge, Calais etc.
Hopefully the UK will find enough customs officers to avoid huge queues that side!

As before those who have road registered cars (which used to include a surprising number of single seaters!) would be treated as road cars and there should be a deal to allow them to move freely.
Trailers could be an issue though, many European countries want them registered in their own right.
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Old 17 Sep 2018, 07:56 (Ref:3850953)   #108
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>>>>>>Hopefully the UK will find enough customs officers to avoid huge queues that side!


Hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha

Joke of the day.

So what we're saying is that it's just a little bit of extra paperwork and a wedge of money lodged with the government, the interest on which should help the National Debt. Either no problems or loads of problems at the borders, believe who you will.

The people it will hit are Iain and Simon (maybe even me!) who will probably have to employ someone else to do the paperwork, which will of course have to be passed on to the owners.

The temptation will be to say "Phuket, let's just race in the UK" which will actually be good for the local economy. Let's hope so, rather than "ah can't be @r5ed, more hassle on top of HANS, lifed seats, 8856-2018 racesuits etc etc. Time to hang up my helmet."





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Old 17 Sep 2018, 09:18 (Ref:3850964)   #109
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I think it worth pointing out that while many bemoan the problems they face, and the increased costs etc of Brexit, the other side of the coin is that Europeans will have the same problems dealing with us.
From their perspective they have only one border to deal with, rather than multiple problems that face UK citizens.

Many like to dwell on the increased cost of imports, but never mention the increased revenue on exports. Brexit will affect not just the UK but all Euro countries, so it is likely that suitable arrangements will be put in place to the advantage of both sides.
I wonder how much 'panic' is rampant in Brussels about the effects of a hard Brexit on their economic prospects without our contributions, one of the few
net contributors.

We can make life quite difficult for many Euro countries if we choose to do so.


While not discounting the problems many on here face I feel a little more optimism would not go astray. Think of those rich foreigners wanting to race at the Classic or Revival, makes your heart bleed.
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Old 17 Sep 2018, 09:58 (Ref:3850977)   #110
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I think it worth pointing out that while many bemoan the problems they face, and the increased costs etc of Brexit, the other side of the coin is that Europeans will have the same problems dealing with us.
From their perspective they have only one border to deal with, rather than multiple problems that face UK citizens.

Many like to dwell on the increased cost of imports, but never mention the increased revenue on exports. Brexit will affect not just the UK but all Euro countries, so it is likely that suitable arrangements will be put in place to the advantage of both sides.
I wonder how much 'panic' is rampant in Brussels about the effects of a hard Brexit on their economic prospects without our contributions, one of the few
net contributors.

We can make life quite difficult for many Euro countries if we choose to do so.


While not discounting the problems many on here face I feel a little more optimism would not go astray. Think of those rich foreigners wanting to race at the Classic or Revival, makes your heart bleed.
UK should only have one border to deal with, given that once something is in the EU it is accepted everywhere, of course there will be a lot of different entry points but only one set of entry paperwork to deal with.

It really isn't the most important topic of conversation in Brussels, issues like immigration are.

The thing with all the countries that apparently rely on the UK is there are a lot of them and that trade is widely spread out.
While 45% of UK trade is with the EU, the UK only accounts for 6.5% of Germany's trade, any change in that won't be as noticeable.

As the Boris's and Jacob's keep saying the rich won't notice the effect (especially if their foreign citizenship applications are approved) and that will be true for the rich foreigners as well - but they also have places like Spa, Nurburging & Monza to play in anyway.
Those who've failed to appreciate the EU logos on the infrastructure in their areas might notice it rather more.
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Old 17 Sep 2018, 20:33 (Ref:3851134)   #111
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>>>>>>Hopefully the UK will find enough customs officers to avoid huge queues that side!


Hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha

Joke of the day. <Snip>
As I noted earlier in this thread, part of the problem will be that there are NO Customs Officers at any of the ports or airports in the UK - they are all now Border Force Officers with designated Customs powers. As a result the majority of the focus of their work has been immigration and very few remaining have a Customs background - all the Customs processing of import/export entries is done centrally in Salford and it will be up to the Border Force Officer at the port to inform Salford that goods have been inspected or "live" documents such as Carnets or licences have been processed at the port (assuming any new recruits are trained how to deal with them!) before clearance of the entry. Then there's the new entry processing system (CDS) which is due to go live as a solo system in March as well...

Just to clear up a couple of other points - TIR carnets were for a one way movement and mostly seemed to be used for movements to/from Eastern Europe (mainly Hungary at Felixstowe) or Turkey and were a pain in the backside.
CPD carnnets are for personal use of vehicles - even if you drive your historic racecar to the circuit before racing it there, the race counts as professional use so invalidates the carnet.
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Old 18 Sep 2018, 08:13 (Ref:3851209)   #112
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Hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha

Joke of the day.


[QUOTE=midgetman;3850953

So what we're saying is that it's just a little bit of extra paperwork and a wedge of money lodged with the government, the interest on which should help the National Debt.

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Old 18 Sep 2018, 08:17 (Ref:3851211)   #113
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My guess, should the worst happen, is half people will go for for option A, as they only have club race cars anyway, 35% for option B . . . . . I know a few people who have sold and are planning on doing so. . . . . and those left over who can afford it will probably keep cars overseas to avoid all the hassle and expense. If you have a house in France, why would you bother bringing a car here if 5 of 8 race meetings, and arguably the best ones, are on the continent.

[QUOTE=midgetman;3850953
The temptation will be to say "Phuket, let's just race in the UK" which will actually be good for the local economy. Let's hope so, rather than "ah can't be @r5ed, more hassle on top of HANS, lifed seats, 8856-2018 racesuits etc etc. Time to hang up my helmet."

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Old 18 Sep 2018, 22:06 (Ref:3851340)   #114
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Hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha

Joke of the day.
It was meant to be

I shall think hard before offering to support races in Europe unless the drivers want to pay a great deal of money, which doesn't seem to be in huge supply at my level of the sport.

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Old 1 Dec 2018, 11:20 (Ref:3867225)   #115
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Cat/pigeons

This dropped into my inbox last night and will be of interest to anyone taking cars to Europe for payment.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/ecmt-int...content=weekly

The writer was obviously under instructions to include the phrase "In the unlikely event..." on every page

If you have more time than me on a wet winter morning you might like to try and find where the ECMT permit exemptions are listed in the sundry linked documents. As far as I can see the only possible exemptions for us are if you carry your own goods ie not for hire and reward and operate on a restricted O licence, or if you are carrying non-commercial 'properties' to a sports event. Whether cars and tools count as props I couldn't say but if certain events, as is often claimed, are 'theatre' then maybe they do!

A couple of things jump out though, especially if you are running on a Standard International and not Restricted O licence. Permits will be in very short supply. There seems to be no increase in the quantity available - only 984 annual - which will fall far short of what's needed given that you will be scrabbling for an allocation with every haulage company in the country, and your application for annual permits has to be in by 21st December, so not much time.

Another issue for many will be that annual permits are only available for euro6 vehicles, monthly permits can be used with both euro5 & 6 but whilst there are 2592 monthly permits for euro6 there are only 240 for euro5.

I sincerely hope that it doesn't come to this or how to transport our racing cars will suddenly become less important to all of us than why supermarket shelves are empty because European hauliers will have to jump through the same hoops if they want to come to the UK
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Old 1 Dec 2018, 12:49 (Ref:3867239)   #116
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Thanks, Colin, for posting that article.

Well, ‘in the unlikely event’ , for anyone taking cars to a race meeting in Europe without an ‘O’ licence the possibility of getting an ECMT permit doesn’t exist. So it will be down to the grey area (that seems similar to the French exemption for Sunday and National holiday travel) regarding carrying non-commercial properties to and from sporting events.

If ‘in the unlikely event’, that doesn’t satisfy the authorities, then it’s bye-bye European racing....
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Old 1 Dec 2018, 13:32 (Ref:3867249)   #117
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"In the unlikely event" the market will open up again for printers to produce hooky permits as back in the 1970s, finding the correct watermarked paper again may be easier now though as forgery seems to have come a long way since then.
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Old 1 Dec 2018, 14:38 (Ref:3867259)   #118
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"In the unlikely event" the market will open up again for printers to produce hooky permits as back in the 1970s, finding the correct watermarked paper again may be easier now though as forgery seems to have come a long way since then.
I’m sure there are many having ‘lightbulb moments’ regarding possible business opportunities......
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Old 23 Dec 2018, 10:19 (Ref:3872068)   #119
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Yes I've given it some thought, and conclude that things will revert to how they were before we were conned into joining (and yes, I am old enough to remember). Just a bit of extra admin and forms to fill in, and off we go. Of course, the anti-Brexiteers will tend to make a mountain out of a molehill, but I'm more optimistic. A lot.
Could not agree more, and leave it at that, enough politic with the F.I.A poking it's nose into historic racing as it is, I seem to remember haulking about the mainland of Europe without much bother, except Spain now and again, but that still applies at Gibraltar occasionally, the problems all adding to the fun, and crossing borders were nowt like getting into the 'Ring' without a correct pass
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Old 23 Dec 2018, 10:41 (Ref:3872070)   #120
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, and crossing borders were nowt like getting into the 'Ring' without a correct pass [/QUOTE]

Funny it was always Spa for me
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Old 30 Dec 2018, 05:39 (Ref:3873084)   #121
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I can't quite work it out- Our government are paying over £100 million for extra ferries to ply the seas between UK and France. So, does that mean as they've paid for them, we will get to use them for free...…?


https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexi...cid=spartandhp
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Old 30 Dec 2018, 08:07 (Ref:3873101)   #122
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Mike, to help your understanding let me suggest a French translation. English gov' invest only 100 Million (soon to be Zloties) in view of a mass exodus to happen April. La dictature française is prepared to accept some migrants while le royaume de Belgique will only take the rich. Business wise a certain Johnny - could be John E - a well known dealer inflatable specialist - Zodiacs and Dolls all in stock, ask our better offers - says his business is going over the top.
Mike, may be, I say may be, you need a new decoder…
Brussels say the distance between England and Belgium will be reduced while the distance between England and other shores will be increased by decree and as if by magic.

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Old 30 Dec 2018, 08:10 (Ref:3873102)   #123
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Bear in mind that from April, you won't be allowed to use the idiom: we are in the same boat! Normal. Ours is sinking and yours knows some drift. May be another rumor?
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Old 30 Dec 2018, 09:29 (Ref:3873126)   #124
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[QUOTE=Mike Bell;3873084]I can't quite work it out- Our government are paying over £100 million for extra ferries to ply the seas between UK and France. So, does that mean as they've paid for them, we will get to use them for free...…?


Gerard, a word of warning from a friend (ami); keep well clear of the Normandy Beaches during March 2019,
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Old 30 Dec 2018, 11:08 (Ref:3873137)   #125
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Gerard C has a real shot at the championship!Gerard C has a real shot at the championship!Gerard C has a real shot at the championship!Gerard C has a real shot at the championship!Gerard C has a real shot at the championship!
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Originally Posted by bauble View Post
Gerard, a word of warning from a friend (ami); keep well clear of the Normandy Beaches during March 2019
Bauble, know what, we have the same friend…*Last news say to keep clear from Spanish beaches because from April '19, all your sat nav systems will use different settings avoiding automatically any unfriendly shore! Lets drink to that!
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Celui qui est parti de rien pour arriver nulle part,n'a de merci a dire a personne.Pour ceux qui vont chercher midi a quatorze heures, la minute de Vérité risque de se faire attendre longtemps.
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