WTCC Magny Cours

[John Winter]

Originally Posted by FIRE

Flying Dutchman at www.sportscarpros.com

Damn that's good stuff

[Dani Filth]

WOW . superb photo ..

[David L]

Originally Posted by Dani Filth

WOW . superb photo ..

Thanks..

You've seen the event gallery on there also..?

Event gallery at sportscarpros

[Dani Filth]

of course i did

[edu]

First race in Magny cours, BMW's was very oversteer.... But none photo.

[TCD]

Does anyone know why Roberto Colciago isn't listed in the Independent Trophy?? Strange coz JAS motorsport is an Independent team and Colciago already scored points....

[TCD]

Are there sites with pics of the WTCC races (not the official WTCC site)?

[Monkey Head]

Originally Posted by TCD

Does anyone know why Roberto Colciago isn't listed in the Independent Trophy?? Strange coz JAS motorsport is an Independent team and Colciago already scored points....

in fact he will be a double winner.....
the reason may be is FIA think that his car is support by factory,what a strange decision

[j_t_8_8_8]

Does anyone know why Roberto Colciago isn't listed in the Independent Trophy?? Strange coz JAS motorsport is an Independent team and Colciago already scored points....

FIA took into consideration the car's, driver's and team's career..and with Colciago they decided to put him as "Official", because the Accord is a 05 car, and either team and driver had a great palmares...but the JAS - Accord aren't supported by Honda

[TCD]

Originally Posted by j_t_8_8_8

FIA took into consideration the car's, driver's and team's career..and with Colciago they decided to put him as "Official", because the Accord is a 05 car, and either team and driver had a great palmares...but the JAS - Accord aren't supported by Honda

What a stupid decision by the FIA, however Colciago's teammate, de Micheli, is an independent driver!

[j_t_8_8_8]

What a stupid decision by the FIA, however Colciago's teammate, de Micheli, is an independent driver!

Yes, I agree, in fact also Coronel or Rosenblad aren't so inexpert...however De Micheli hasn' t got a great palmares, he is a good driver, but not at the level of Colciago, Coronel or Rosenblad..

This isn't the first time for Colciago:in 2001 ETCC he was considered official and his team mate Pigoli an amateur (same for Indy), and back in 1997, in the Italian Superturismo Championship, it was created a new class only for him because he drove an Honda Accord ex BTCC'96, but he was too fast to compete against the other privateers and Honda didn't pay for an official entry, so there was the Indy class only for him.

[TCD]

Originally Posted by j_t_8_8_8

Yes, I agree, in fact also Coronel or Rosenblad aren't so inexpert...however De Micheli hasn' t got a great palmares, he is a good driver, but not at the level of Colciago, Coronel or Rosenblad..

This isn't the first time for Colciago:in 2001 ETCC he was considered official and his team mate Pigoli an amateur (same for Indy), and back in 1997, in the Italian Superturismo Championship, it was created a new class only for him because he drove an Honda Accord ex BTCC'96, but he was too fast to compete against the other privateers and Honda didn't pay for an official entry, so there was the Indy class only for him.

I agree but I don't think 'experience' should decide whether someone races as an independent or not.

[kmchow]

Originally Posted by j_t_8_8_8

Yes, I agree, in fact also Coronel or Rosenblad aren't so inexpert...however De Micheli hasn' t got a great palmares, he is a good driver, but not at the level of Colciago, Coronel or Rosenblad..

So how does Colcaigo feel about this? So he must be part flattered and part insulted/frustrated by this ruling/status?
Well, the officials must have thought long and hard about this. You don't want Colciago winning over the next indepedent by over several laps, etc... Having someone win 10 out of 10 races as an independent would not be fun.
OTOH, the Jas Accord has shown a lot promise against the Works cars?

[zizzo]

I talked about this with Roberto in Magny Cours.
It's strange, but he doesn't mind. He told me that for him being the first of the independents would be nothing, he want to fight with the officials, and manage to beat some of the Alfas and BMWs.
It's not easy, the Accord is a good car but needs development, but Roberto has a very strong will, and as a pilot he knows that he can beat anyone.
I really hope he can do it...

[Martin Haven]

Originally Posted by touringlegend

From onboard Andrea Larini's car the track did look very shiny I guess it would be oil.

The Hotfiel Focus nearly collected the car just seconds later.

Why the marshalls were on track while cars were passing is beyond me though, the driver was out, it was only a car that needed recovered.

Erm.... said it all yourself... slick of oil on chicane and very hard, immovable object right where any driver who runs out of talent will end up viz Mr Larini Jr.

In fact, the yellows and slippery surface flags had been vigorously waved for 3 minutes before the Ford and the Alfa nearly totalled everyone in the place... Just as well I'm too lazy to be a Clerk of the Course, as the 2 drivers in questuion would not be competing in the next 4 races...

Marshals have it tough enough as it is without drivers recklessly endangering them by blatantly ignoring flags...

And it was not a race or even qualifying but morning WARM-UP, for God's sake.

How would Andrea Larini be feeling today it he'd hit one of those guys in the gravel, as so nearly happened?

There are always a dozen reasons for not slowing down but only one to do so... BECAUSE YOU MUST !

Until that one reason is properly enforced, the other 12 will take priority in drivers' minds...

[Martin Haven]

Originally Posted by Monkey Head

preivous year's result show that BMWs have an advantage in Mangy Cours,so not no concern that FWD car can't achieve good result at the moment,give some confidence to them

Can it really be that no-one recalls as far back as 2002, when Fab Gio tanked everyone in both Magny-Cours races... or when the Alfas could simply pull out at the foot of the Kemmel straight and drive past and away from everyone else, without recourse to such trifling inconveniences as having to out-brake them at Les Combes???

Maybe Valencia last year springs more readily to mind... a circuit that suited the Alfas and Seats with their 6-speed sequential shifts but where alost every corner fell between gears on the BM 5-speed H-pattern??

No, there is no FAIR way to balance FWD and RWD... just as there is no FAIR way to balance F1 cars, or drivers come to that.

If there was, what would be the point? In the end, what the organisers hope for is that everyone will have an advantage SOMEWHERE...

Let's face it, if you want loads of manufacturers to stay, they have to win SOMETIME ! Witness 9 in the BTCC... where are they now? Pretty much all cleared off when they didn't win...

As for SEAT and Alfa trying to have weight added to the BMWs on the strength of the opening 2 weekends, James Thompson rather shot that down in flames, offering the opinion that the 55deg heat had more to do with the lack of relative pace than anything else, as FWD cars always use their tyres harder anyway and the heat was always going to kill them...

In fact, Jorg Mullers car-balance advantage was such that he managed to win race 1 on his tyres from qualifying and thus keep a full set of fresh rubber to go from 8th to 1st in race 2 (not a luxury the FWD cars could afford.) Of course, he admitted, having no weight compared to Garcia, Priaulx and Dirk M helped too...

He failed to add that he was simply in a different class that weekend... Sometimes it all comes right - as it did for him two years previously in Magny-Cours too...

[Monkey Head]

Originally Posted by Martin Haven

Can it really be that no-one recalls as far back as 2002, when Fab Gio tanked everyone in both Magny-Cours races... or when the Alfas could simply pull out at the foot of the Kemmel straight and drive past and away from everyone else, without recourse to such trifling inconveniences as having to out-brake them at Les Combes???

Maybe Valencia last year springs more readily to mind... a circuit that suited the Alfas and Seats with their 6-speed sequential shifts but where alost every corner fell between gears on the BM 5-speed H-pattern??

No, there is no FAIR way to balance FWD and RWD... just as there is no FAIR way to balance F1 cars, or drivers come to that.

If there was, what would be the point? In the end, what the organisers hope for is that everyone will have an advantage SOMEWHERE...

Let's face it, if you want loads of manufacturers to stay, they have to win SOMETIME ! Witness 9 in the BTCC... where are they now? Pretty much all cleared off when they didn't win...

As for SEAT and Alfa trying to have weight added to the BMWs on the strength of the opening 2 weekends, James Thompson rather shot that down in flames, offering the opinion that the 55deg heat had more to do with the lack of relative pace than anything else, as FWD cars always use their tyres harder anyway and the heat was always going to kill them...

In fact, Jorg Mullers car-balance advantage was such that he managed to win race 1 on his tyres from qualifying and thus keep a full set of fresh rubber to go from 8th to 1st in race 2 (not a luxury the FWD cars could afford.) Of course, he admitted, having no weight compared to Garcia, Priaulx and Dirk M helped too...

He failed to add that he was simply in a different class that weekend... Sometimes it all comes right - as it did for him two years previously in Magny-Cours too...

however BMW taken all wins start form 2003,circuit advantage should be( it's true that RWD faster in more corner circuit)

Alfa's season would be ended if they can't win in sliverstone

[touringlegend]

Well for one I'd guess it'll be much cooler in Silverstone, but you never know!

Not just sure how the cars will fare on the International layout - a classic Touring Car track from the BTCC!

[Martin Haven]

Originally Posted by touringlegend

Not just sure how the cars will fare on the International layout - a classic Touring Car track from the BTCC!

Hope none of the drivers are learning the GP circuit from their Playstations! Might be a few red faces early in practice as they try to find the Hanger Straight...

[John Winter]

They can always learn it in ToCa 2

[E46]

Jason Plato doesn´t need to learn it.

[Hazard]

Regarding Plato...one of Gow's reasons for adjustments to the ballast on the S2000 spec cars in the BTCC last year was based on keeping the Seat's equal with their WTCC counterparts.

Of course that's not perfectly fair...if you appropriate weighted a BTCC car and threw it in a WTCC race, where would it be? Based on the final DPM round last year, where MG won both races quite comprehensively when WSR took two cars over...it would seem Seat had been possible 'favourably' ballasted last year.

Now, we'll get a real measure...Plato driving his Seat Toledo round Silverstone with the rest. If he qualifies and runs with the Ford's & Chev's, then surely the weight must be piled back on to Seat by Brands?

[touringlegend]

How do you work that one out ?

Surely you mean the weight must be taken off again for Brands ? Ford's and Chevy's are nowhere compared to SEAT!

Remember he will be running at the WTCC base weights, which is what he was running with at Donington this year. We won't be able to draw any comparisons from Plato as he will be running the same as the other SEAT's ?


Back to the BTCC, I thought this would be a tricky issue when they announced the equalistion method. I'm pretty certain now Vauxhall believe it is very unfair, although they haven't come out and said as much yet. My bet is there is an awful lot of upset ahead sooner rather than later.

[Hazard]

I'm hinting more that if Plato's pace in his Seat Sport UK car isn't exactly relative at Silverstone to the Seat Sport Spain cars/drivers, it may show that adjusting the ballast to put Seat in as close a position to the front in the BTCC is unfair, since they clearly don't actually have the pase (speculative so far, if he's as quick, argument over).

On the other point: Vauxhall won't want to be pipped by Seat...their only other rival in one key sense...it's more important from a manufacters selling point to stick the '200x Manufacturer champion' label on stuff than the drivers award...and Team Dynamics can't win that.

So if it's unfair and Vauxhall are at risk, they'll cry foul. The edge they have is that they certainly have two competitive drivers, whereas Seat currently only has the one (cruelly based on two rounds performance I grant, I can wait)

[FIRE]

The dominating performance of BMW in the WTCC this year have upset the other teams. Several teams now require that the weight limit for RWD cars (BMW) must be raised with another 30 kilos. BMW has won three of four races so far and dominated the last race in France despite several BMW-drivers carrying success penalty weight.

Full article: http://www.kennylovrin.se/tctv2/main...iewnews&id=391