MotoGP 2013 : Round 6, Barcelona

[gomick]

Moto 3 - 2 Aussies qualify in the top 11 , Spanish/Portugese riders take the top 7 spots

[frostie]

Biggest margin of pole in a dry MotoGP qualifying session since Philip Island 2010. Hugely impressive from Dani

[gomick]

Nicky Hayden has got some pace this weekend too... Duke aint that bad a bike!

[frostie]

Originally Posted by gomick

Nicky Hayden has got some pace this weekend too... Duke aint that bad a bike!

Nicky said in his debrief that he thought a front row was possible, lost a few tenths in the final sector. A strong race will be near to impossible tomorrow though given their struggles with the tyre. Good to see the Ducati looking strong though as you say
Few other things from today...
Rossi was losing a tenth of a second in three different braking zones in Q2 (presumably the big stops at T1, T5 and T7) and this is what cost him badly. He's looked good most of the weekend but again once we get to Quali he struggles. If he can make a good start I think that he can do a lot this weekend.
Cal did a very good job and he's one of the few riders who is fast and consistent enough to make the harder rear tyre working in the race tomorrow. He said afterwards however that he thought that dani and jorge had a bit in hand over everyone else but that behind them there was a lot of riders capable of fighting for the podium.
Further down the field Michael Laverty told me that it's looking good for staying at PBM in 2014

[chunder]

Staggeringly boring race

Tyres clearly were only at alien level as a lot of crashes and front end losses, probably temp related.

Good luck with this BT Sport, you couldn't sell this to anyone right now its so boring.

Fair play to Ezpeleta and BBC, getting 10 million for 5 years for this is sale of the century!!

[gomick]

Still havent watched 1 motogp race this year... Watched Moto 2/3 tho!

[formerf1champ]

Tbh chunder, I didn't mind the race. I won't get into details as to why til I know gomick knows the results. Not an all time classic, but not the worst I've seen as well.

[gomick]

I know the results mate, just cant seem to stay up past 10pm on Sunday nights these days

[wnut]

OK then, I thoroughly enjoyed the race, the dice between Tito and Danni was epic!
Horge's racecraft is amazing, absolute banzai to get the lead in the first corner and dictating the pace until he got the opportunity to make a break while the Honda's squabbled for second.

It was a really good race! imho!

[chunder]

I guess if you folks enjoy watching processional racing and riders riding at the limit then fair enough.

I like to see a rider working a bike, making it look like he is on the limit, and modern GP bikes rarely look like that these days, and dropping viewing figures suggest I am not alone.

Moto2 is great to watch, but eve thatw as fairly dull this weekend and Moto3 is turning into a Rins,Salom,Vinales benefit.

Still, the Spaniards will be happy, and that's what matters after all.

[formerf1champ]

chunder, that was a good race. You can't start the rot for motogp and let yourself become like a F1 whinger. If the same type of race happened in F1, there would be a world internet meltdown with all the fans on all the sites complaining that there wasn't any passing. There may not have been any passing for any of the top 3 for the whole race, but they could've if an opportunity was created, and that's what's important. Unlike with F1, it isn't bs passing as well.

They were going like the clappers, but it wasn't til late in the race you thought Lorenzo had it. Even then you knew he had to ride hard all the way, because at 99%, Pedrosa would've run him over.

I would liken motogp races, particularly last night to a scoreline in football/soccer. I don't know if gomick likes it, but I'd assume you and wnut do. Now, "we" know with such unimpressive scorelines as 0-0. 1-0, 1-1 and 2-1, there can be some shockingly bad games, mediocre, good, and all out classics. Last night was an example of a good 1-0 game, I hope you, and anybody who reads, gets what I'm saying.

[formerf1champ]

It's kind of funny with Cat, it's not a bike track, but when I think of the better bike races I've watched, over the 23ish years I've been watching. Cat would have 2 of the top 5 that stand out, in my mind at least. The first one was 04 I think. A Rossi vs Gibernau fight, which we all know who would've won. The one a few years ago too, where Rossi caught out Lorenzo. I don't know how it works for some of you. 91 500 at Hockenheim, race2 97 at Hockenheim and the 250 at nurburgring in 97.

One thing I've also noticed that is good about motogp, expecially when compared to F1, is that you get to see the grid girl as they go by the grid at the start. The girls next to Dovizioso, Smith and Edwards were particularly great... Special mention to Petrucci's as well!

[gomick]

Originally Posted by formerf1champ

the 250 at nurburgring in 97

Da Ralf - great race

[chunder]

Yes great races, but this one at Barca really wasnt sorry

You guys like different racing to me, and this was dull, uninspiring and processional.

The bikes are being controlled by techs in the garage, with a rider on board who is constrained by electronics and having to ride a certain way within them, and when they don't work he is at peril. The craft of riding on a new tyre with full tanks, pushing the front, then transferring to the rear when the front goes off has gone, as has hte majesty of riders who you could see doing this.

Yes a rider can still lose the front or crash but these are human elements, the vast majority of the time these bikes are being ridden within a set limit set not by a rider but a technician, and that saddens me.

[wnut]

^^

Rossi's engineer clearly misplaced a decimal point in his calcs then!

[Dani Filth]

it's not a good one btw ..

[JohnnyFiama]

Originally Posted by chunder

The bikes are being controlled by techs in the garage, with a rider on board who is constrained by electronics and having to ride a certain way within them,

Is it the electronics or the tyres? Everyone seems to think the tyres can only be ridden in one way requiring pin-point accuracy lap after lap and having one very thin racing line. The is bound to make a follow-my-leader style race where any deviation from the line or, dare I say it, any slide, costs loads of time.

Is the trouble with top motorsport (be it bikes or cars) that everything is now almost perfect: tyres, chassis, power delivery, brakes, gear changes. You no longer get the random element of people fighting the machine or making mistakes. It's just a high speed time trial.

F1 has introduced artificial means (KERS, DRS and dodgy tyre life) to force some random element back in otherwise an F1 race would just be a high speed procession too (some will argue it still is....).

[chunder]

The tyres were probably develoepd around certain riders maybe the original Bridgestone ones, and the philosophy has followed, so tyres do play a part, but this is what happens when you dont ahve a competitive tyre deal.

I dont blame Pirelli at all in F1, they are only doing what was asked of them by the governing body, blame them not Pirelli who got it spot on for a few years.

Bridgestone tyres are too hard to ride on the limit, and if you dont design the bike right the tyres will never, ever work.

Thats a crazy way to run a champiohsip where the whole point is to attract different manufacturers.

And it another reason why Ezpeleta and his cronies really should be held to account.

For introducing 800's without looking into it properly.
For alowing one rider (Marques) to win before chaging lots of rules, then doing so after he has won.
For not allowing multiple engine makes in Moto2. Stupid idea.
For having 5 Spanish races and allowing their series to basically be a sort of international Spanish championship.

I do them him credit for CRT though, manufacturers are so utterly selfish they dont care that the racing is rubbish, they ahve to be forced into a change for the show to remain good. And Crt might be a beter option.

Other than that, they are doing fine.

[JohnnyFiama]

It's easy to bash any series organiser but finding a set of rules that works is almost impossible in any series where manufacturer teams take part.

With manufacturer teams in MotoGP they will always, always win. They are too big, too well funded and too powerful politically. There is no way Honda or Yamaha could ever have a set of rules where some bloke with, for example, a Kalex chassis and a Kawasaki engine could just turn up and beat them, or even race on equal terms with them. It's just not going to happen.

You knock Moto2 but it all depends what you're looking for, if you want a series where rider talent comes to the front and any team can win then you're looking at a MotoGP grid of 28 spec built Hondas. Or perhaps a grid full of Yamaha engined bikes with different chassis.

[chunder]

They might be spec Honda engiens, but the chassis were very heavily biased to certain riders for a the first few years, the Suter was totally built around Marquez for two years, so much so no one else could really get on it!

And Kalex have now built a bike that anyone can fit on and it works superbly.

Moto GP is supposed to be the pinnacle, not a one make championship, I know they are doing it with costs in mind, but have you seen how much it costs to lease yes lease not buy Honda and KTM engines in Moto 2 and 3!

[JohnnyFiama]

Suter were bound to focus on Marquez, he was their number one rider and biggest asset. There was a lot of anti-Marquez / anti-Spanish rumours last year as he was so dominant but I think his performances this year just confirm he was the best rider out there by some margin. If you're getting beaten in a series where the machinery is very equal you need to come up with some excuses.... there was nothing to stop another chassis builder focusing on a rider, the problem was no-one could beat Marquez.

"Moto GP is supposed to be the pinnacle" is where the problem lies. You can dumb it down so everyone has a chance or make it the pinnacle and let money talk. Honda and Yamaha throw everything at it and have a lot more to throw than most people!

In MotoGP outside of the big two everyone else is a small player. Even for large companies like BMW their bike division is tiny compared to their car division so the budget is decided on accordingly. Ducati will struggle if Marlboro pull out.

One of the biggest problems for MotoGP compared to F1 is that there are a lot more car manufacturers than bike manufacturers. F1 (with the possible exception of Ferrari) is not dictated to by one or two manufacturers. If the FIA fall out with one manufacturer they know there are lots more either currently racing or being in a position to race.

[chunder]

F1 really bears little comparison to bikes in any way other than it being a world series, and the crowds in some areas are similar.

The bike market is miniscule in comparison to cars. OK in some countries a lot of bikes are sold but they are not top level sports bikes. So the relevance to customers market is minimal.

Manufacturers want tech to be in the rules so that they can sell it down to consumers.

But what they really mean is they have invested millions in it, and don't want to waste that investment. They dont give a damn about racing and the fans, they just want you to buy a Yamonda. The days of Honda trying to fuel inject two strokes, making oval piston bikes, using the Elf to pioneer stuff they never used anywhere are over. THe accountants have taken over and the engineers are now buried away building cars that run on paper and robots, not pioneering bike technology.

Bikes are a very stable design now, they haven't changed much in 30 years. So the only way they can invest is with gadgets like ABS, traction control, etc etc, hence they are looking to protect their investment.

As for Suter, when you dominate the grid, and are supposed to supply bikes to everyone, building one specific to one rider is a pathetic approach, and hey look what happened this year, everyone bought Kalex, I wonder why. I don't blame Marquez team, they probably paid for the privlige, same as they probably lobbied Ezpeleat to change the rookie rule and keep weight limits in 2.

I want to see riders racing, not riding within a technicians parameters, its why I am turning off MotoGP, and also why a lot of my mates dont watch it anymore.

Its very, very dull at times. And no matter what you say, no likes seeing the same countyr dominating, it degenerates from the internationalism and lends weight t the Spain running Spains show lobby.

[JohnnyFiama]

Were Suter actually obliged under any contract to supply everyone equally?? Surely it's just a free market, they made their choice, focused on Marquez, won the championship but lost a lot of sales this year..... c’est la vie!

I was reading an article yesterday about the fuel rules in MotoGP, they seem like a complete farce. 20 litres of fuel is a pointless exercise. It is being claimed that the fuel is the main reason Suzuki can't enter next year, the bike is quick enough but they're going to spend millions getting it to run that quick on 20 litres of fuel. What kind of crazy rule is that??

[chunder]

I think Suter concentrated on making a bike that suits smaller riders, maybe not totally nailed on Marquez, but you can see why they did it.

As for fuel, has always been a pathetic rule anyway, if Ezpeleta hasn't got the balls to do what Flamini did and say "I don't care wht you do here is a Pirelli tyre, here are restrictors for 4 cylinder bikes then he can only blame himself.

WSB suffered for one year, then recovered slowly, its only economic downturn that makes it a bit of a poor relation now.

If Ezpeleta and his cronies were abit more bold they could shake it all up, what are they gonna do? start their own championship? Lol I don't think so

[GORDON STREETER]

Hmm looks like Lorenzo is out for a while with a broken collarbone, in todays practice at Assen !