Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Single Seater Racing > Formula One

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 7 Jun 2018, 10:35 (Ref:3827359)   #401
F1Guy
Veteran
 
F1Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Antarctica
Driving dangerously
Posts: 1,406
F1Guy User has been fined for unsportsmanlike behaviour!
So, McLaren have denied Norris the opportunity to get some F1 race experience under his belt, before giving him a fulltime drive for 2019, taking over the vacant seat when Alonso retires at the end of the season.

Was it because McLaren believed Norris is so "talented" that they were afraid of another team poaching him from under their nose?

Or, was it because Norris is so "talented" that McLaren were afraid that their reserve driver could well beat their fulltime drivers, with an engine that McLaren had rejected?



F1Guy is offline  
__________________
When did I do dangerous driving???
Quote
Old 7 Jun 2018, 10:45 (Ref:3827362)   #402
Armco Bender
Llama Assassin and Sheep Botherer
Veteran
 
Armco Bender's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
New Zealand
International Sheep Ambassador
Posts: 4,212
Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!
Maybe Renault simply said Non.
Armco Bender is offline  
Quote
Old 7 Jun 2018, 11:22 (Ref:3827376)   #403
E.B
Veteran
 
E.B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
United Kingdom
About 7kms East of Albert Park Melbourne
Posts: 6,031
E.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Maybe Norris said no. It would jeopardise his F2 title chances and potentially in an average STR against a potential star would be an easy opportunity to look ordinary with longer term damage to his career.
E.B is offline  
Quote
Old 7 Jun 2018, 11:33 (Ref:3827380)   #404
Racer65
Registered User
Racer
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 175
Racer65 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by F1Guy View Post
So, McLaren have denied Norris the opportunity to get some F1 race experience under his belt, before giving him a fulltime drive for 2019, taking over the vacant seat when Alonso retires at the end of the season.

Was it because McLaren believed Norris is so "talented" that they were afraid of another team poaching him from under their nose?

Or, was it because Norris is so "talented" that McLaren were afraid that their reserve driver could well beat their fulltime drivers, with an engine that McLaren had rejected?
It was an offer for more than this season apparently and that would mess up 2019 for McLaren.
Racer65 is offline  
Quote
Old 7 Jun 2018, 13:54 (Ref:3827401)   #405
BertMk2
Race Official
Veteran
 
BertMk2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
United Kingdom
Nr Maidstone, Kent
Posts: 10,270
BertMk2 is going for a new world record!BertMk2 is going for a new world record!BertMk2 is going for a new world record!BertMk2 is going for a new world record!BertMk2 is going for a new world record!BertMk2 is going for a new world record!BertMk2 is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer65 View Post
It was an offer for more than this season apparently and that would mess up 2019 for McLaren.
That's the worrying bit - has Red Bull's driver program got a huge hole in it? A few years back drivers were coming through the ranks thick and fast and Red Bull couldn't place them in their teams fast enough - drivers were being ditched without really ever getting a decent crack at it or farmed out to other championships. Now though they've brought Hartley back into the fold (seemingly only to ditch him again) and haven't got anybody else to slot in to fill the gap. Have they got less young drivers or are they dropping them sooner?
BertMk2 is offline  
Quote
Old 7 Jun 2018, 14:05 (Ref:3827403)   #406
Mike Harte
Veteran
 
Mike Harte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
United Kingdom
W. Yorkshire
Posts: 5,471
Mike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMike Harte will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by BertMk2 View Post
Now though they've brought Hartley back into the fold (seemingly only to ditch him again) and haven't got anybody else to slot in to fill the gap. Have they got less young drivers or are they dropping them sooner?



I' m not saying that this is the reason, but is it possible that youngsters are not joining (or are being advised not to join) the drivers' programme as it had lead to a dead end for some past joiners?


If so, it could explain Red Bull's current predicament.
Mike Harte is offline  
Quote
Old 7 Jun 2018, 14:38 (Ref:3827412)   #407
chillibowl
Veteran
 
chillibowl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Canada
winnipeg, canada
Posts: 9,719
chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!chillibowl is the undisputed Champion of the World!
dont really follow the young driver market, but with other teams stepping up their programs do young drivers have more choice now/harder for RB to lock kids in now?

more anecdotal, but in the x-games world it also seems like the RB stable is being diluted by a number of other sponsors entering that market with their own athlete sponsorship programs.

although what Mike said also rings true...Marko is not a very forgiving mentor/boss so i can understand why drivers might want them to steer clear of the RB family.
chillibowl is offline  
__________________
Home, is where I want to be but I guess I'm already there
I come home, she lifted up her wings guess that this must be the place
Quote
Old 7 Jun 2018, 18:28 (Ref:3827455)   #408
broadrun96
Veteran
 
broadrun96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
United States
Posts: 11,215
broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Harte View Post
I' m not saying that this is the reason, but is it possible that youngsters are not joining (or are being advised not to join) the drivers' programme as it had lead to a dead end for some past joiners?


If so, it could explain Red Bull's current predicament.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BertMk2 View Post
That's the worrying bit - has Red Bull's driver program got a huge hole in it? A few years back drivers were coming through the ranks thick and fast and Red Bull couldn't place them in their teams fast enough - drivers were being ditched without really ever getting a decent crack at it or farmed out to other championships. Now though they've brought Hartley back into the fold (seemingly only to ditch him again) and haven't got anybody else to slot in to fill the gap. Have they got less young drivers or are they dropping them sooner?
It seems the answer is a mix of both according to Chris Medland on Racer.com. Lando was attractive to Red Bull early but he chose McLaren, Jack Aitken was approached but chose Renault, and Russell is firmly entrenched at MB so that's the big names in the "minors" so to speak tied up with their respective teams. Now the debate Red Bull vs McLaren at this point is a valid what if/what could be proposition. But he doesn't name a single futures driver, just the 4 they currently have in Ricciardo, Verstappen, Sainz and Gasly if he continues to improve. And if RB moves to Honda power what's the likelihood Sainz stays with Renault for 2019?
broadrun96 is online now  
Quote
Old 8 Jun 2018, 02:59 (Ref:3827571)   #409
peebee2
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,249
peebee2 User had had their licence endorsedpeebee2 User had had their licence endorsed
Interesting that McLaren chose to publicise this contact about Norris. And not particularly smart IMO.
peebee2 is offline  
Quote
Old 8 Jun 2018, 05:43 (Ref:3827581)   #410
Dixon9
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 87
Dixon9 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridDixon9 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I think Red Bull only have themselves to blame. I've been watching the live streams of the Formula 3 and tune into the Toyota series down here and some of those kids could be stars given the opportunity. There's always grid filler in the lower leagues of course but that's just sport.

If your stable is so barren you need to reclaim Porsche's wonder boy who hasn't driven single seaters for several years (a driver who Porsche really turned from inconsistent and unreliable into a GT champion) then you should probably expect him to need a bit of time to get up to speed and give him a solid crack given your cupboard is bare.

Then again, if I was a young driver I'd be skeptical of Red Bull given it's very likely that even if you make it to F1, you'll end up a second class citizen like Ricciardo is and Webber before him. Vettel was a superb driver of course, but you couldn't blame a young guy with interest from F1 teams for being careful of who he invests his career in.

Over in indycar Penske has four blokes who he lets duke it out among themselves, and Chip Ganassi could have given Ed Jones team orders to move over for Dixon last weekend but rightly did not.

Gasly is driving like a bloke who wants a proper Red Bull seat. Given the Ricciardo rumours he might well get one. I hope he doesn't end up a permanent #2.
Dixon9 is offline  
Quote
Old 8 Jun 2018, 06:31 (Ref:3827590)   #411
Racer65
Registered User
Racer
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 175
Racer65 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by peebee2 View Post
Interesting that McLaren chose to publicise this contact about Norris. And not particularly smart IMO.
It wasn't them that started the rumours and why deny it when asked a direct question by a journalist? That would have added even more fuel to the fire.
Racer65 is offline  
Quote
Old 8 Jun 2018, 13:19 (Ref:3827652)   #412
broadrun96
Veteran
 
broadrun96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
United States
Posts: 11,215
broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dixon9 View Post
I think Red Bull only have themselves to blame. I've been watching the live streams of the Formula 3 and tune into the Toyota series down here and some of those kids could be stars given the opportunity. There's always grid filler in the lower leagues of course but that's just sport.

If your stable is so barren you need to reclaim Porsche's wonder boy who hasn't driven single seaters for several years (a driver who Porsche really turned from inconsistent and unreliable into a GT Prototype champion) then you should probably expect him to need a bit of time to get up to speed and give him a solid crack given your cupboard is bare.

Then again, if I was a young driver I'd be skeptical of Red Bull given it's very likely that even if you make it to F1, you'll end up a second class citizen like Ricciardo is and Webber before him. Vettel was a superb driver of course, but you couldn't blame a young guy with interest from F1 teams for being careful of who he invests his career in.

Over in indycar Penske has four blokes who he lets duke it out among themselves, and Chip Ganassi could have given Ed Jones team orders to move over for Dixon last weekend but rightly did not.

Gasly is driving like a bloke who wants a proper Red Bull seat. Given the Ricciardo rumours he might well get one. I hope he doesn't end up a permanent #2.
I don't recall much if any action from Hartley in the 911s, he ran the 919 in the prototype division. I believe a lot of why they signed him was the experience with the hybrid systems.
broadrun96 is online now  
Quote
Old 10 Jun 2018, 21:18 (Ref:3828209)   #413
Armco Bender
Llama Assassin and Sheep Botherer
Veteran
 
Armco Bender's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
New Zealand
International Sheep Ambassador
Posts: 4,212
Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!
2 more weeks of rumour and speculation to come...
Put me down for Alonso to quit McLaren and reunite with Honda engines.
Armco Bender is offline  
Quote
Old 11 Jun 2018, 08:00 (Ref:3828296)   #414
Razzzor
Veteran
 
Razzzor's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
New Zealand
New Zealand
Posts: 1,157
Razzzor should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridRazzzor should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridRazzzor should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Yes I wonder if Helmet's ruthlessness on the TR drivers in the past may be coming in to play with juniors not wanting to sign. There's no way Norris should be taking that seat. Against a vastly more experience Gasly, odds are he may not beat him at all in 2018 and could suddenly be on the chopping block for 2019. He'll be judged straight away against a guy who already did 2 seasons of F2, a 3.5 season (back when 3.5 was at a higher level than Euro F3) and a season of Super Formula more than Norris, and nearly won all of them if they SF finale wasn't cancelled. Why put yourself at that sort of risk. Although going up against Alonso would be tougher.

Same with other juniors Richard Verschoor already been dropped and he's done nothing wrong. All that gave him was a dent in his reputation.

Albon dropped 6 years ago and now he's one of the fastest in F2 and gave Leclerc a good run for his money in Gp3. Juniors are better off waiting for another team to take notice, since they all have programs, rather than the RB program that will spit them out within 6 months of not performing well enough.
Razzzor is offline  
Quote
Old 11 Jun 2018, 08:05 (Ref:3828298)   #415
Dixon9
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 87
Dixon9 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridDixon9 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Wait they dropped Verschoor? Why?

Yeah maybe it's just nationalism on my part but if you're going to sign a bloke who hasn't touched a single seater in years but has the best pedigree in prototype GT cars there is, to me that's signalling you both want a good development driver for your new engine and you intend to give him an extended run.

If they wanted another random young driver they should have gone to F2 in the first place.
Dixon9 is offline  
Quote
Old 11 Jun 2018, 08:49 (Ref:3828306)   #416
Armco Bender
Llama Assassin and Sheep Botherer
Veteran
 
Armco Bender's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
New Zealand
International Sheep Ambassador
Posts: 4,212
Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!
Team Manager Graham Watson said on TV here tonight Toro Rosso team has no plans to change drivers.
Would only happen if owners Red Bull decide they want a driver change.
Armco Bender is offline  
Quote
Old 11 Jun 2018, 09:26 (Ref:3828324)   #417
JohnMiller
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location:
Rutland
Posts: 3,069
JohnMiller should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridJohnMiller should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Armco Bender View Post
Team Manager Graham Watson said on TV here tonight Toro Rosso team has no plans to change drivers.
Would only happen if owners Red Bull decide they want a driver change.
So they'd only change drivers if the people who decide who to have as drivers decide to change drivers?
JohnMiller is offline  
Quote
Old 11 Jun 2018, 09:39 (Ref:3828337)   #418
F1Guy
Veteran
 
F1Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Antarctica
Driving dangerously
Posts: 1,406
F1Guy User has been fined for unsportsmanlike behaviour!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnMiller View Post
So they'd only change drivers if the people who decide who to have as drivers decide to change drivers?
,






F1Guy is offline  
__________________
When did I do dangerous driving???
Quote
Old 11 Jun 2018, 10:11 (Ref:3828347)   #419
peebee2
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,249
peebee2 User had had their licence endorsedpeebee2 User had had their licence endorsed
Hartley can’t have done himself many favours in Montreal. His face afterwards shows he knows that too.

The accident was Stroll’s fault, although a racing accident - but what on earth had Hartley put his car there for? Very poor decision making, and likely going to cost him.
peebee2 is offline  
Quote
Old 11 Jun 2018, 11:20 (Ref:3828360)   #420
Richard C
Veteran
 
Richard C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,803
Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by peebee2 View Post
Hartley can’t have done himself many favours in Montreal. His face afterwards shows he knows that too.

The accident was Stroll’s fault, although a racing accident - but what on earth had Hartley put his car there for? Very poor decision making, and likely going to cost him.
As to Hartley making a bad decision to pass at that moment, I think it looks bad only in hindsight. I wish the replays they had shown were just a bit longer as it looks like Stroll had a moment on the prior corner and slowed (he was off track just on the right if I remember correctly). So Hartley jumped for the gap as Stroll slowed. If you watch the racing line of other cars you can see that some were able to take a line tha gave at least a cars width to the left (where the two eventually collided). So it wasn’t an impossible pass to pull off (assuming Stroll even was aware Hartley was beside him). The problem is the Stroll continued to have problems maintaining control of his car. He oversteered as the rear broke loose (tire going flat, or more likely hard on the throttle with cold tires in an attempt to recover his lost momentum from his earlier issue) and as he tried to recover he collected Hartley. If it had all worked as planned, everyone would have praised Hartley for an aggressive pass.

In the end, it took away a chance for Hartley to potential shine with the new Honda unit. So yes, it didn’t do him any favors.

Richard
Richard C is offline  
__________________
To paraphrase Mark Twain... "I'm sorry I wrote such a long post; I didn't have time to write a short one."
Quote
Old 11 Jun 2018, 11:23 (Ref:3828361)   #421
broadrun96
Veteran
 
broadrun96's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
United States
Posts: 11,215
broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!broadrun96 is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Razzzor View Post
Yes I wonder if Helmet's ruthlessness on the TR drivers in the past may be coming in to play with juniors not wanting to sign. There's no way Norris should be taking that seat. Against a vastly more experience Gasly, odds are he may not beat him at all in 2018 and could suddenly be on the chopping block for 2019. He'll be judged straight away against a guy who already did 2 seasons of F2, a 3.5 season (back when 3.5 was at a higher level than Euro F3) and a season of Super Formula more than Norris, and nearly won all of them if they SF finale wasn't cancelled. Why put yourself at that sort of risk. Although going up against Alonso would be tougher.

Same with other juniors Richard Verschoor already been dropped and he's done nothing wrong. All that gave him was a dent in his reputation.

Albon dropped 6 years ago and now he's one of the fastest in F2 and gave Leclerc a good run for his money in Gp3. Juniors are better off waiting for another team to take notice, since they all have programs, rather than the RB program that will spit them out within 6 months of not performing well enough.
He would have been loaned to STR not signed by them so he would go back to McLaren at the end of the loan period. There's no way they would want to let go of him in case FA gets bored at the end of the season.
broadrun96 is online now  
Quote
Old 11 Jun 2018, 11:25 (Ref:3828362)   #422
steve_r
Veteran
 
steve_r's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Lord Howe Island
European Capital of Culture 2008
Posts: 3,519
steve_r is going for a new world record!steve_r is going for a new world record!steve_r is going for a new world record!steve_r is going for a new world record!steve_r is going for a new world record!steve_r is going for a new world record!steve_r is going for a new world record!
Hartley did nothing wrong. He was making a legitimate pass, and it would have stuck if Stroll had no lost control of his car.
steve_r is offline  
__________________
It's just my opinion.
Quote
Old 11 Jun 2018, 11:33 (Ref:3828364)   #423
peebee2
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,249
peebee2 User had had their licence endorsedpeebee2 User had had their licence endorsed
Hartley took a big risk and tried to pass where passing is not normal.

Did Stroll have a puncture or not? If so was it Hartley’s wing that did it, or not. Who knows.

Hartley threw away a realistic chance for STR to score points, he threw away a whole race of data about the motor and he cost the team several hundred grand in parts.

The TM will be very, very unhappy.
peebee2 is offline  
Quote
Old 11 Jun 2018, 11:45 (Ref:3828369)   #424
Akrapovic
Veteran
 
Akrapovic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Scotland
Posts: 10,912
Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Hartley is at fault for being driven into by Stroll. That's up there with Ericson being at fault.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwPn_GCa3mU

Had Stroll not lost the car, Hartley would've been through and we'd be sitting here saying that was an amazing pass.
Akrapovic is offline  
Quote
Old 11 Jun 2018, 14:50 (Ref:3828432)   #425
Peter Mallett
The Honourable Mallett
20KPINAL
 
Peter Mallett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
England
Here and there
Posts: 37,234
Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Just demonstrates that when things aren't going your way, they get worse. I do think though that Hartley will be under pressure after this. A racing accident but he's the one who is paid to race instead of the one who is keeping a team on the grid.
Peter Mallett is offline  
__________________
I've decided to stop reaching out to people. I'm just going to contact them instead.
Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Vettel has joined Toro Rosso/Now signed for 2008! Down F0rce Formula One 111 5 Aug 2007 17:18
Scuderia Toro Rosso Announce 2006 Drivers Spritle Formula One 11 7 Dec 2005 10:02
Toro Rosso Chassis wi11iamm Formula One 22 2 Dec 2005 18:47
Scuderia Toro Rosso OSTKURVE Formula One 2 25 Nov 2005 07:43
Squadra Toro Rosso renamed Scuderia Toro Rosso dazbaz_99 Formula One 21 24 Nov 2005 20:46


All times are GMT. The time now is 01:05.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.