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Old 28 Oct 2021, 09:20 (Ref:4080385)   #1
john ruston
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Dunlop L Tyres

Has anyone had any problems Dunlop L tyres?
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Old 28 Oct 2021, 10:02 (Ref:4080394)   #2
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Only paying for them

are they falling apart again? I need some M's soon.
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Old 28 Oct 2021, 10:18 (Ref:4080398)   #3
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Am aware of two failing in past month.
Concerning in that we can use Avon’s but regs state Dunlop’s .
Common sense should be applied until this is investigated
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Old 28 Oct 2021, 12:34 (Ref:4080417)   #4
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Didn't we have similar problems a few years ago, remember getting to Donnington and all the mini's were parked up, and Chevrons?

Moving the factory to Portugal has been a roaring success in more ways than one.
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Old 28 Oct 2021, 13:15 (Ref:4080420)   #5
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Rudernst should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridRudernst should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridRudernst should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridRudernst should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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Originally Posted by zefarelly View Post
Didn't we have similar problems a few years ago, remember getting to Donnington and all the mini's were parked up, and Chevrons?

Moving the factory to Portugal has been a roaring success in more ways than one.

It is very difficult to judge this as an outsider....

You make it look in your post as if this a production quality issue,
and this very well may be the case

Buuuut: It can also be this:
Despite what it says on the tin, the compounding of the Classic Dunlops keep changing as the availabe cocktail of ingredients change.
Imperceptively, the Classic Dunlops keep moving along with more modern tires as ingredients from modern tires find their way into the Classic tires to replace ingredients that are no longer available.

We as racers can see the result of this creep, because laptimes are dropping and so is tire life.
Something is happening there

As a result, due the combination of, better track surfaces, historic racing cars that nowadays are going much quicker than they used to go in period and stickier compounds,
the unchanged physical design of the tires might, with some some cars just exceed the limits of the original design

a case of 2021 load pattern not allowed for in a 1960ies design....

this would then be not a production quality issue,
but an issue of quality management in product development

RudE
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Old 28 Oct 2021, 18:04 (Ref:4080466)   #6
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My apprentice had an out of shape tyre on his Brabham.He still stuck the car P3 and very nearly shook the pads out the balance was so bad.. HP tyres changed tyre no questions asked.He went on to win following day.
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Old 28 Oct 2021, 20:04 (Ref:4080473)   #7
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Most informative, and interesting.Thank you. I've not bought any new tyres since production moved! I did have a stash, and haven't raced much as the cars was in bits!

The FiA, msa, and historic race organisers insist we use Dunlop with no alternative nor competition. . . . add to that the suggestion there's no control over the consistency or quality they supply ? Closed shop and borderline dangerous . As well as opening a can of competitive spec/quality questions . . . Do some get better than others?

I'm all for no grip sideways fun . . . But don't have any desire to crash and burn

I wouldn't be suprised if people have had tyres made by now . . . Histrionics has no boundaries

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Originally Posted by Rudernst View Post
It is very difficult to judge this as an outsider....

You make it look in your post as if this a production quality issue,
and this very well may be the case

Buuuut: It can also be this:
Despite what it says on the tin, the compounding of the Classic Dunlops keep changing as the availabe cocktail of ingredients change.
Imperceptively, the Classic Dunlops keep moving along with more modern tires as ingredients from modern tires find their way into the Classic tires to replace ingredients that are no longer available.

We as racers can see the result of this creep, because laptimes are dropping and so is tire life.
Something is happening there

As a result, due the combination of, better track surfaces, historic racing cars that nowadays are going much quicker than they used to go in period and stickier compounds,
the unchanged physical design of the tires might, with some some cars just exceed the limits of the original design

a case of 2021 load pattern not allowed for in a 1960ies design....

this would then be not a production quality issue,
but an issue of quality management in product development

RudE
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Old 28 Oct 2021, 21:09 (Ref:4080482)   #8
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grantp should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridgrantp should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridgrantp should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
How do original spec. suspension components keep up with the additional grip available?
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Old 29 Oct 2021, 08:01 (Ref:4080518)   #9
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Duddha should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridDuddha should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
This is an interesting topic.

The FIA has released a new set of regulations which is available on the FIA Website and FIA Historic Database if you download the latest version of Appendix K published on 18.12.2021.

Additionally, this does not apply as of today but only from 01.01.2022 but will not allow the swap of historic tyres for CR6ZZ as an example as the later is not an historic tyre in definition but a more modern alternative. And if you take the time to read the regulations and available update, there will basically be an allowance for tyre manufacturers to enter the market of vintage and historic tyres providing they comply with the definition, geometrical and construction parameters of what an historic tyre should be.

Moving on, I would back the words of Rudolf. As bad as it can happen with Dunlops, it is not all related to moving to Portugal but the effect of various aspects of today's historic sport that we see in the behaviour and manufacturing of historic tyres. We should first be thankful that there are tyres convenient for the cars and then consider at how the sport has grown, the number of races, the circuits, the cars and their performance.

Altogether, the manufacturing and tooling has not change, the compound has evolved and is a constant battle as you cannot use products that were the essence of it back in the late fifties or sixties due to regulations and their evolutions.

I do understand it's not always perfect, round and that some tyres have failed but on the other hand the cars are just getting faster and faster every year. Minis have had to have their tyres specifically reinforced for that reason, not a period thing but something which happened because of historic racing. Then, we have Juniors lapping at incredible speed at Goodwood if you look at the period reference and compare, same for the later GT cars and so on so no wonder the tyres are having a hard time keeping up with that.

Maybe one should consider slowing down a little for a little less troubles?
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Old 29 Oct 2021, 08:18 (Ref:4080520)   #10
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How do original spec. suspension components keep up with the additional grip available?

They don't - they have "evolved" over time!
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Old 29 Oct 2021, 08:23 (Ref:4080521)   #11
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Originally Posted by Duddha View Post
This is an interesting topic.

The FIA has released a new set of regulations which is available on the FIA Website and FIA Historic Database if you download the latest version of Appendix K published on 18.12.2021........

............Maybe one should consider slowing down a little for a little less troubles?

Good post, however surely not published in two months' time and already available. At my age, time already goes by too quickly!

And I'm sure that the last comment was said "tongue in cheek"!
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Old 29 Oct 2021, 14:53 (Ref:4080571)   #12
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Gerard C should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridGerard C should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridGerard C should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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And I'm sure that the last comment was said "tongue in cheek"!
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Old 1 Nov 2021, 12:04 (Ref:4080917)   #13
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They don't - they have "evolved" over time!
Very Diplomatic

If anything its the opposite, the tyres haven't changed much but all the cars parts have

FWIW the Avons aer even more expensive.

A few years ago I had a set of white walls on my road COrtina, they were dreadful, and cheap . . . . Maybe 'Ting-Tong Slipwell-nevergrips' @ £30 a pop is the way to go!
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Old 1 Nov 2021, 12:39 (Ref:4080924)   #14
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Gerard C should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridGerard C should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridGerard C should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Some series impose ZV7's, road tires, wet or dry they work great remaining predictable and offering a more than decent grip, go for c 55 € each including everything but are only avalaible in 15" and 16" ATM. Related to what Zef says but nothing to see about a pre-war carn sorry if OT.
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Old 1 Nov 2021, 17:45 (Ref:4080975)   #15
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Pre war are another tale altogether, I knw there were issues a few years ago. but it's not my forte. Not sure John ewill want to remember either.

most of the 60's stuff run M's 50's L's although not hard and fast

A minor aside, what do DUnlop offer in return for their monopoly of historic racings most populus bracket ?
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