[WEC] LMP Future Regulations (was Le Mans EVO rules - now hypercar rules)

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Dyson Mazda

Has anyone figured out how Aston Martin Lagonda Global Holdings can afford factory Hypercar, GTE, and F1 sponsorship? The company lost >$70m last year. Is Red Bull just going to buy it out?

Only F1 marketing costs them. GTE is mere pennies and this new thing also likely not even meeting the Lola-tie-in numbers in 2009-11, with all the granted lobby wishes. They also have history of pay drivers

[joeb]

S365 put together a timeline of how the class has progressed over the past year plus:

https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...ment-timeline/

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Only F1 marketing costs them. GTE is mere pennies and this new thing also likely not even meeting the Lola-tie-in numbers in 2009-11, with all the granted lobby wishes. They also have history of pay drivers

The Aston road car division is making a healthy profit now, Multimatic is involved and Red Bull have a major role in the programme. All things considered, this will not be a shoestring budget effort. And yes, I am setting aside a hat to eat if I am wrong about it.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

The Aston road car division is making a healthy profit now, Multimatic is involved and Red Bull have a major role in the programme. All things considered, this will not be a shoestring budget effort. And yes, I am setting aside a hat to eat if I am wrong about it.

Hmm it'll be difficult to prove regardless

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

The Aston road car division is making a healthy profit now, Multimatic is involved and Red Bull have a major role in the programme. All things considered, this will not be a shoestring budget effort. And yes, I am setting aside a hat to eat if I am wrong about it.

https://www.amazon.com/Flat-Shoelace...-2-spons&psc=1

I think you are safe, these shoestrings only cost $3, so even if they bought many colors and supplied the whole crew it isn't a lot of money. We can assume Aston will spend more than that.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by joeb

https://www.amazon.com/Flat-Shoelace...-2-spons&psc=1

I think you are safe, these shoestrings only cost $3, so even if they bought many colors and supplied the whole crew it isn't a lot of money. We can assume Aston will spend more than that.

Oh you

[Maelochs]

Glad the rules were finally published ... but now we have the nigthmare of BoP in the top class. Every race win will be based as much on politics and data manipulation as racing ability, and building a better car has become meaningless.

The One thing FIA-ACO chose to learn from IMSA is that racing is not competition it is entertainment, and putting on a good show attracts more people than putting on a good race.

[Deleted]

I believe the fake manipulation on ACO side has more to do with (desperate) attempt to please everyone, whilst in IMSA it's more about that said 'exciting show'. Both achieving same goal of course

[Dyson Mazda]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

The Aston road car division is making a healthy profit now, Multimatic is involved and Red Bull have a major role in the programme. All things considered, this will not be a shoestring budget effort. And yes, I am setting aside a hat to eat if I am wrong about it.

I mean they lost 14 million pounds in 1Q19. That’s not great in a global economy that is doing quite well.

[deggis]

Interesting comment from Neveu. The much talked 3.30 target is a "minimum". So its like they're expecting them to be faster from the start.

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2019/0...-hypercar.html

The performance window (3:30 lap at Le Mans) quoted puts these new ‘Hypercars’ in roughly the same performance window as the current LMP2s. How will you deal with this?

“The minimum time for the Hypercars is 3:30, that’s the mandatory target. We feel comfortable that we should be a little bit quicker at the end. We will see how it goes. We have to see the car running in the winter to work it out. If we have to reduce LMP2s by 50 horsepower, for example, it won’t be difficult and it won’t change the structure of the grid. It will be what we have now.

“What we have to be careful is what exactly the performance level is for Le Mans Hypercar Prototypes.

Note this interview was conducted before the Aston and Toyota announcements.

We expect two manufacturers for Year 1, what do you expect we will see into Year 2?

“We expect more than two manufacturers. You never think for Year 1, you think that for the first year it’s reasonable two will be ready. But many more should come for the following season. Maybe more Year 1? That’s not my job, I have to manage the championship, I’ve just released the grid for season eight, I don’t know the grid for season nine yet!”

[Sodemo]

How exactly will they balance the hybrid cars with the non-hybrid?

[deggis]

I didn't see these specifics mentioned anywhere yet.

https://www.fia.com/news/fia-announc...l-decisions-14

* No fuel flow and Brake Specific Fuel Consumption (BSFC) limitation
* Control tyres (one manufacturer with a limited number of different sizes to cope with different weight distributions).

[chernaudi]

No fuel flow or consumption limits? Sounds like we're back to using air restrictors like in GTE and LMP1 pre 2014.

[TF110]

The control tires are not spec for everyone. It's not the same exact compound for everyone as it is in IMSA, BUT it is only Michelin tires (hopefully just for now). I think hypercar will be mid 3:20's. Imo they'll be a little faster than current Super GT if not the same speed.

[tomerswayler]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

No fuel flow or consumption limits? Sounds like we're back to using air restrictors like in GTE and LMP1 pre 2014.

They'll probably use the torque sensors at the driven wheels and measure volts and amps going to the electric motors to police the power that is actually sent to the wheels.

[Bcarr6]

So a very rough list of Hypercar / Prototype entries sits like this at the moment:

Toyota x2
AMR (multimatic?) x2
AMR (R-M’Sport non factory) x2???
Glickenhaus x1-2
ByKolles x1
Oreca (maybe with rebellion TVR?) x2???
SMP ???

There’s certainly potential for an interesting and deep grid there, and that before thinking about whether any of the bigger P2 players fancy a bite, like G Drive, DC Racing, Alpine, etc

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Bcarr6

So a very rough list of Hypercar / Prototype entries sits like this at the moment:

Toyota x2
AMR (multimatic?) x2
AMR (R-M’Sport non factory) x2???
Glickenhaus x1-2
ByKolles x1
Oreca (maybe with rebellion TVR?) x2???
SMP ???

There’s certainly potential for an interesting and deep grid there, and that before thinking about whether any of the bigger P2 players fancy a bite, like G Drive, DC Racing, Alpine, etc

For year 1 I would only put the 2 factory Astons, 1 R Sport Aston, 2 Toyotas, 1 Glickenhaus, and partial year of ByKolles. I think SMP may stick around with their grandfathered cars, Rebellion seem to always be there, so possibly with the old/current cars unless they find a manufacturer quick.

Year 2 could bring another couple factory programs out of the fold. I don't think Ferrari will do it, but McLaren just might this time.

[Adam43]

I think in 2 years time McLaren will have moved from considering if they have a future in LMP1 to really thinking hard about doing it.

[chernaudi]

That's about the same rate that the FIA and the teams are going as far as ratifying the F1 2021 rules package...

[TF110]

If the budget caps go through in F1, I think you might see some of these names enter the WEC/Le Mans.

I expect 2 Toyotas, 2-3 Astons, 1-2 Glickenhaus, 0-1 ByKolles, 2-4 random privateer grandfathered lmp1's

[chernaudi]

If these new LMP1s are much less expensive to run and TMG and others offer customer cars (AMR already are saying that they're willing to), we could have a much larger LMP1 field than we have now.

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by TF110

If the budget caps go through in F1, I think you might see some of these names enter the WEC/Le Mans.

I expect 2 Toyotas, 2-3 Astons, 1-2 Glickenhaus, 0-1 ByKolles, 2-4 random privateer grandfathered lmp1's

my best expectations:


2020 - 2021 WEC


2 toyotas

2 astons

1 glickenhaus (perhaps 2 at le mans)


2 detuned R13 lmp1 rebellion

2 detuned BR1 lmp1 SMP




2021 - 2022 WEC


2 toyotas
2 astons + 1 private aston

2 glickenhaus

2 oreca/rebellion hypercars
2 dallara/SMP hypercars
2 mclarens





back to reality:


Mclaren was interested to hypercar specs and likely could build a hypercar chassis with onroak (united autosport boss is mclaren f1 team principal) powered by the new V8 4L twin turbo. For them guess it's all about costs.


Glickenhaus builds already hypercars; for them it's just about to find a way to make their cars homologable since sometimes it seems ACO stares at them as unwanted guests lol



If hypercars will be for real much less expensive than actual private lmp1, rebellion and SMP won't get big issues to convince oreca and dallara to build them new toys. AER 2.4L pushes already 700hp and this year has been able to work for the whole LM week FP, Q1, Q2, Q3, WU, R ----> >6000km



F*** O** kolles, go to pay your debts.

[canaglia]

PS. likely toyota could be the only one who will use hybrid in their hypercar; so I don't expect a private program for them

[helgi]

I think SMP have nothing to advertise in terms of "hypercars". Almost impossible to have, for example, an Aurus "hypercar".

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by helgi

I think SMP have nothing to advertise in terms of "hypercars". Almost impossible to have, for example, an Aurus "hypercar".

dallara hypercar or BR1 hypercar sounds better