[WEC] WEC 2019/20 season

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by TF110

I didn't say that at all. I said the opposite actually.

Alright alright! This is why I asked! I couldn't followed what you were saying.

I don't know the specifics but what I read about the f1 situation is that it threw a wrench on the entire tracks' events, actually the track surviving, at least under the current owners.

I think what happened was they were tired of paying more and more each year or new deal for the F1 race and they renegotiated with everyone, not just F1. I don't know how much they make for the other series that race there but I do know that the British GP has easily 100k+ people just on race day. And that has to be the main money maker.

I'm wondering if there is anything comparable to that in terms of attendance and therefor money. I know the WEC says 30-50k but I think that's weekend total. Is there anything else racing there that can be a money maker? If they are losing money on their biggest venue what does it mean for the smaller ones like the WEC?

I actually found a recent article on Forbes that goes into detail about the situation they face- https://www.forbes.com/sites/csylt/2...0-million/amp/... So looking at that, reading that they are in a bad place financially, maybe there's more to it than just the WEC dropping it because they don't like the place or anything along those lines. Money talks. Maybe Silverstone wasn't trying to give the WEC a race at the rate they had. Maybe 6hrs is a financial burden for the WEC organizers and decided 4 was a good deal for the price Silverstone asked? I don't know exactly, but from the info available it seems to me that both of them were looking out for their financial interests with light of the other big race and it's details on finances.

A lot of what you say about F1 makes sense. It was the link to WEC that I still don't get actually.

I don't recall any of the renegotiations with WEC. I thought it just lost it's slot in the calendar shenanigans. But you seem to be suggesting it was more down to Silverstone's price. Maybe you said the opposite?

The financials of a race meeting is way more complicated than attendance and fee. So I don't think you can make the comparison to F1 and it has little relevance here. The F1 bit is important to Silverstone and on a different scale in terms of money and attendance. That's it. F1 could bankrupt Silverstone. And then there is everything else.

Either WEC makes them money or doesn't. So they want it or don't.

And then there is the race distance! This is another thing I don't really get what you are saying. I am not sure 4 hours compared to 6 makes any significant difference to the cost to Silverstone or the series organisers! I daren't mention that it is unlikely ticket price will change with race length for this reason!

I've probably just read the wrong thing into your post.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

I booked in October, within hours of ticketing being open. Booked my accommodation at the same time. And if there's a WEC race next year there, I'll do the same again. As I've said to others in the scurrilous world of Facebook, I go to enjoy a race or two hopefully, but also to meet friends, and have another escapist break after Le Mans. Yes, my needs may be shallower than most purists but despite my age, my glass seems to be more half full than most..... See you there Simon.....

I think you've described a few of us posting with Petit. I buy my season pass every winter and am there usually 5-6 times a season and camp twice. Bring on the cars, campfire, grilling meats and talking sh1t all weekend. Something will be running trackside and we'll be paying attention until they turn out the lights and build suburbia out further, but hopefully that's not in my life time.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Alright alright! This is why I asked! I couldn't followed what you were saying.


A lot of what you say about F1 makes sense. It was the link to WEC that I still don't get actually.

I don't recall any of the renegotiations with WEC. I thought it just lost it's slot in the calendar shenanigans. But you seem to be suggesting it was more down to Silverstone's price. Maybe you said the opposite?

The financials of a race meeting is way more complicated than attendance and fee. So I don't think you can make the comparison to F1 and it has little relevance here. The F1 bit is important to Silverstone and on a different scale in terms of money and attendance. That's it. F1 could bankrupt Silverstone. And then there is everything else.

Either WEC makes them money or doesn't. So they want it or don't.

And then there is the race distance! This is another thing I don't really get what you are saying. I am not sure 4 hours compared to 6 makes any significant difference to the cost to Silverstone or the series organisers! I daren't mention that it is unlikely ticket price will change with race length for this reason!

I've probably just read the wrong thing into your post.

My thinking on race distance- do they charge a bigger amount for a longer venue (6hrs) vs the short one (4hrs)? I don't know the specifics. I was speculating. I have no idea why they dropped the length of the race, I'm just trying to think of some type of cost association with it, if that's a reason or not isn't for me to say. Just speculating.

My thinking on renegotiating the WEC race- they renegotiated their F1 deal to not pay as much but still lose money. There was that date change to the WEC round, you're right on that. I'm just guessing if maybe this was part of or a sign of renegotiation with the WEC. Again, just speculating.

My thinking on the financials related to attendance- the Forbes article I linked to lays out that the track relies on ticket sales and the like to make their money because they don't get subsidized by Government like other tracks (Bahrain come to mind). So the big-ticket/big-dollar/pound/euro etc. event is F1. Does the WEC make them that much money seeing the ticket sales are a fraction of the F1 race. And even with the huge attendance the British GP has, they're still struggling.

[Peter Mallett]

From personal experience the length of a race determines the entry fee. The theory being that if you have a 2 hour race you can include another 2 hr race plus support races and make the running costs out of those fees, but if you are reducing track time but not increasing entries then I can't see why, financially, a shorter race makes any difference to income.

[andrewn7]

I'm as confused as the next person about what went on with this years WEC round at Silverstone. On the face of it, dropping then reluctantly reinstating a shorter version of one of the most popular rounds makes no sense af all. My best guess would be money has a lot to do with it

[LC2guy]

In Better News, Rebellion now entering 2 Cars.

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2019/0...lverstone.html

[Mike E]

Originally Posted by LC2guy

In Better News, Rebellion now entering 2 Cars.

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2019/0...lverstone.html

Tasty driver line up too.

"The crew of the second car will be consist of returning driver Nathanaël Berthon, Sebring 12 Hours and Rolex 24 winner Pipo Derani and ex-Audi LMP1 driver Loïc Duval."

[gregc]

Originally Posted by TF110

I forgot about the Moto GP race! That surely is a big event that rivals F1 in attendance. In the articles I read, they don't get subsidies from the local government for the F1 race. So they are footing most of the bill. It seems like that is the main contributing factor in the track losing money. Even though they raised the ticket prices it seems they are losing money still. I would like to know the price of tickets for the WEC race this year vs. last. You're getting less racing so is the ticket prices reflecting that? That'd be interesting to know.

Nope. From memory my weekend ticket last year was around £45 - just had a look at the website and this year it's £50.

[S griffin]

That's good Rebellion entering two cars, will increase the competition at the front

[Mike E]

Originally Posted by LC2guy

In Better News, Rebellion now entering 2 Cars.

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2019/0...lverstone.html

This DSC story now includes an updated entry list. Still two seats open in the 88 Proton Porsche.

[GT6]

yes 2 rebellions is good news but grid still looks a pale shadow of a few years ago, however will be there to watch the weekend action as always

[Deleted]

The only other events with good track action offerings are Sebring and LM, the rest have usual micro grids in the main race and only like Porsche Cup or whatever in support. Even ELMS has better event schedules. So it's not like Silverstone's been dealt that bad hand of cards, relatively speaking (not that the event is looking particularly interesting, but just saying)

[airbusA346]

Hopefully Proton will find two drivers for the #88 Porsche.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

From personal experience the length of a race determines the entry fee. The theory being that if you have a 2 hour race you can include another 2 hr race plus support races and make the running costs out of those fees, but if you are reducing track time but not increasing entries then I can't see why, financially, a shorter race makes any difference to income.

Thanks for that. I was wondering if a shorter race means saving money for the WEC. There's only one manufacturer in lmp1 so they may be down some big bucks from sponsorship that came from Porsche's lmp1 program.

Originally Posted by gregc

Nope. From memory my weekend ticket last year was around £45 - just had a look at the website and this year it's £50.

Thanks for the information.

Glad to see Rebellion back at two cars. Solid lineup too. Has Loic or Pipo tested for Rebellion?

[Anyopenroad]

Silverstone pays WEC a fee to host the race. WEC does not pay Silverstone. It’s possible the fee is lower for a 4-hour race but I doubt it.

[Adam43]

And that fee will, as will the attendance, be insignificant compared to the GP. If I were to guess I would say the WEC attendance is closer to F1 than the WEC fee was to Bernie’s old fee!

Also Silverstone is likely to have more income for the WEC event. F1 nabs a lot of the other income such as on circuit advertising and, possibly, stall and merchandise fees.

Not that this is likely to be relevant to why we lost WEC for a bit there and why it is 4 hours!

[joeb]

Originally Posted by LC2guy

In Better News, Rebellion now entering 2 Cars.

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2019/0...lverstone.html

Originally Posted by Mike E

Tasty driver line up too.

"The crew of the second car will be consist of returning driver Nathanaël Berthon, Sebring 12 Hours and Rolex 24 winner Pipo Derani and ex-Audi LMP1 driver Loïc Duval."

Very welcome news, and that is a very strong driver lineup. Is there new sponsorship that is allowing this I wonder? They are talking Sebring and the final 2 races for sure, if they can keep that lineup they will have a strong chance at a podium for Le Mans

[Deleted]

For 2020-2021, they should organize a 'rejects championship' as support series, to allow 'obsolete' great cars and engines to breathe but also to fill out the very empty and hollow WEC event timetables. Something like:

LMP1 - Nonhybrid 2014-2020
LMP2 - Pre-2017
LMPC - Garage 56 candidates/runners, FLM09, CN, whatever prototypeish accepted that have lower than LMP2 power level without performance balancing

Throw in LM24 invite for class winner and squeeze it down to ~5 WEC support events in 2 hour races

[Adam43]

That would be great. Although to make it interesting I think they should have a BoP system.

[Akrapovic]

You're a bad man.

[Peter Mallett]

You ain't seen nothing yet.

[Mike E]

Maldonado withdraws from Jota drive.


https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...ta-lmp2-drive/

[Aysedasi]

That should save them a few bob in crash repairs.....

[sceptic]

Originally Posted by Anyopenroad

Silverstone pays WEC a fee to host the race. WEC does not pay Silverstone. It’s possible the fee is lower for a 4-hour race but I doubt it.

I don't believe that's true.
WEC basically hires the track from Silverstone, and takes the ticket revenue.

It's the same model for British GT, Blancpain etc.

[Adam43]

So we have F1 that is paid to race there and gets everything, but Silverstone gets the ticket revenue.

Club meetings would most likely pay Silverstone to host the race and Silverstone would get the ticket sales.

And WEC that is in the middle.