ParityParityParityParity

00 XR8 · 27 Jul 2004, 03:50 (Ref:1048399)

How much longer can these one-sided results be tolerated?

Since Sandown 2003 VYs have won 8 rounds to the BAs 4. Sure we got a few wins while the new Commodores were being sorted out but now we have had one and a half seasons with these current steeds.

The following drivers have won races or started on the front row in 2004..........

Marcos Ambrose
Russell Ingall

Steven Richards
Jason Bright
Rick Kelly
Greg Murphy
Todd Kelly
Mark Skaife
Cameron McConville
Craig Baird
Garth Tander

A little one-sided isn't it? Just wait till Holden's flag-ship team gets its engines sorted out, then we will not see which way they go.............

BlueBlood · 27 Jul 2004, 03:56 (Ref:1048402)

A Little one sided? The whole VX/VY choose your favorite engine debarcle is a joke and the rest of the parity issue is even worse.
But TC and his band of merry men are too busy counting their coin and placing demands on tracks and promoters to do much about it.
They probably wont until the crowds start to drop due to the one sided nature of the results.

Or maybe they are worried how far in front SBR would be if the cars were equal?

lcfp2297 · 27 Jul 2004, 05:20 (Ref:1048420)

One sided?

How many Ford teams CAN win a round on merit? ONE
How many Holden teams CAN win a round on merit? FOUR

so parity based on that would mean 1 ford win to every 4 holden wins etc...

Lets look at the whole picture and not a blinkered one...

tiko · 27 Jul 2004, 06:09 (Ref:1048427)

00 XR8 your are just an absolute joke. Its not any Holden teams fault that the Ford teams cant get there act together. As GTRMagic has quite rightly pointed out that its the engineering differences of personel that make the Holden cars & teams more superior over Ford. How can parity have anything to do with FPR's engines blowing up etc.

Get over it and stop whinging. After all if one team, SBR can do it they all can.

Onlooker · 27 Jul 2004, 06:57 (Ref:1048442)

I am begining to think the We are doing a better job think is holing more and more water. The Holden guys have beaten the Ford guys consistantly for a number of years now regardless of the car spec's.The one thing that I think does need addressing is the slow roll out of the HMS engines.enough is enough time to fit the correct engines to these cars

manwell · 27 Jul 2004, 07:00 (Ref:1048447)

Sorry Tiko i disagree.
Its not just engineering.
Holdens are easer to set up and get quick laps out of them because they have more downforce. Hence more Holden drivers are in the top 10.
Fords are harder to set up because they have have less downforce and its a lot harder to find the right setup. In the races Ford drivers have to push harder to make up the defecit which causes them to have more off's and accidents.
Only 1 ford driver this year has been able to do it well enough to win a round.

Yeah FPR have had trouble with their engines. But what about Ford teams like DJR, BJR, 888, Larkam.
You cant say that its just due to lack of engineering knowledge or personel in the Ford teams.

Think about this for a second. Has every Ford team just by coincidence employed every bad engineer out there and the Holden teams like Perkins, HRT, K-Mart, PWR employed all the good ones?

Peregrine · 27 Jul 2004, 07:02 (Ref:1048448)

In the interest of parity AVESCO created a formula to compare average lap times between the makes, to be conducted every 3 - 4 meetings. Has this been used ?!?! Of course not as it would stick out like the proverbial dogs jewels that Ford is off the pace as an overall package and deserves a parity adjustment !! :confused:

Onlooker · 27 Jul 2004, 07:25 (Ref:1048459)

For a car that has not much downforse in relation to it's weight and Cg there sure is alot made of it. I don't recall the Fords all comming out and kicking but when that new front splitter was approved in 2000 or 2001.

Luke Plaizier · 27 Jul 2004, 07:26 (Ref:1048462)

Keep in mind that the ONLY Ford team that has been winning was also found to have an extra wire.....

Lukeyson

Vee8 · 27 Jul 2004, 07:43 (Ref:1048473)

Quote:

Originally posted by 00 XR8
Just wait till Holden's flag-ship team gets its engines sorted out, then we will not see which way they go.............

PWR have their engines sorted out very nicely, thank you.

**GTRMagic** · 27 Jul 2004, 10:32 (Ref:1048589)

The 2004 HMS units, or the 2005 DJR/Dynamik ones?

stmorri · 27 Jul 2004, 10:34 (Ref:1048590)

Does anyone remember the rear wing on the original prototype BA? Ford were told it had too much downforce and it had to be replaced with the unit that they now have.

Pirtek Racing · 27 Jul 2004, 11:44 (Ref:1048658)

prototype pics:
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/frame...ar.mv&num=1562

also
http://www.fordracing.ford.com.au/co...ar/default.asp

to me it seems that the protoype pics support that claim

27 Jul 2004, 13:52 (Ref:1048786)

From a neutral party, the blue eyes should look at the lip on their front spoilers, far longer than the red corner, and isn't that Falcon rear wing larger and further back than on the Commodore? If one Ford team have the machinery that can win races (up to last weekend the championship leaders - hello!!!) than why can't the others?

**GTRMagic** · 27 Jul 2004, 14:29 (Ref:1048818)

Quote:

Originally posted by White Knight
From a neutral party, the blue eyes should look at the lip on their front spoilers, far longer than the red corner, and isn't that Falcon rear wing larger and further back than on the Commodore? If one Ford team have the machinery that can win races (up to last weekend the championship leaders - hello!!!) than why can't the others?

Because the BA is the most sophisticated touring car Ford has built anywhere... and some teams have the resources and knowhow internally to understand that, to harness that, and some clearly do not!

Boss330 · 27 Jul 2004, 21:27 (Ref:1049239)

Like i said before.... we were thrown a crumb last year just to keep the punters coming back....it wont happen again for awhile!!!!!!!!

Dazz · 27 Jul 2004, 22:51 (Ref:1049307)

Ford would have won and placed a bit better if Ambrose wasn't treated as the only Ford driver in the field.

He ruined Rusty's weekend at both Darwin and Winton, in Darwin by taking him out when Russell was in a race winning starting position, and at Winton by getting serviced first in the pits even though Russell was in a better position to take out the race.

Plus you have Fords greatest weapon in Craig Lowndes, not to mention the considerable talent of Seton driving a steaming pile of garbage, so you are not going to get any race wins there unless every round is pouring wet and only lasts about 9 laps (the life of an FPR engine)!

It's not a parity thing in relation to the cars, but becasue Holden have most of their best drivers in their best teams, that shows in the results.

Some of the Ford teams have also had a run of bad luck which has cost them a lot of results unfortunately, and that has nothing to do with parity.

Bowe has shown great speed but it has not been converted into race wins, Ingall has shown great race pace but has been let down by less then perfect qualifying, Lowndes has dragged his car kicking and screaming up the field only to have it give out on him time after time, anf the 888 cars have shown a lot of speed but have been caught up in too many accidents. These are not becasue of parity, IMHO.

manwell · 28 Jul 2004, 00:02 (Ref:1049346)

I just can belive that all you one eyed Holden supporters think its got nothing to do with parity and that if Ambrose can win, any Ford driver can.

Some of the Ford teams have the best enginners and drivers around working for them. I just think its funny that you think its a coincidence that all or them (except Ambrose) seem to be struggling and it has nothing to do with the lack of parity between the two cars.
Results speak for themselves. Look at the percentages of Holdens in the top 10 at each round.
Adelaide 70%
Eastern Creek 50% (it rained which seemed to equal it out a bit)
N.Z. 60%
Hidden Valley 60%
Barbagello 70%
Queensland Raceway 70%
Winton 70%
Im going to be laughing when AVESCO finally get the 2 cars into a wind tunnel.

1200Datto27 · 28 Jul 2004, 00:22 (Ref:1049354)

Yes,

But which version of the Holden are they going to put in the tunnel?

racer69 · 28 Jul 2004, 00:44 (Ref:1049358)

It is great to see that Project Blueprint which was implemented from the start of 2003 is doing the job intended and stopping the parity problems......

HRT #1 · 28 Jul 2004, 01:35 (Ref:1049375)

Quote:

Originally posted by GTRMagic
Because the BA is the most sophisticated touring car Ford has built anywhere...and some teams have the resources and knowhow internally to understand that, to harness that, and some clearly do not!

So GTR you say some teams have the resources and knowhow internally to understand and harness that, so who and where are these ford teams that are as good as SBR that can convert into race wins like SBR can.???

We see teams like DJR, BJR, LMS and SER who all have the knowledge and only a small amount of resources, then there is the teams like WPS, TER and of course Fords very own Factory backed team of FPR who all have bucket loads of money and resources, but only limited knowledge yet none of the above teams can convert into race wins.

SBR is the only ford team with a perfect combination of a smaller amount of resources and a wealth of knowledge and are the only team flying the flag for ford considering that SBR isn't a factory backed team.

HDTVKSS · 28 Jul 2004, 01:43 (Ref:1049377)

"Like i said before.... we were thrown a crumb last year just to keep the punters coming back....it wont happen again for awhile!!!!!!!! "

oh please. so this means that if Ambrose wins the championsip this year that youcan spark up and say how he was the underdog, won when he shouldnt have yadda yadda.

the idea that One side id favourred is laughable when BOTH sides need to be there for the series to survive.

at blueprint, both teams were invited to submit thir proposals, both did, and they got what they got.

get FPR's act togeather with some wynns stop smoke, get 888's finger out of their proverbial, get Ozemail to stop punting your main hope, get DJR to stop practicing for a demolition derby and thats 4 more teams u have up front.

the issues with ford go way beyond any supposed issues of parity.

Peregrine · 28 Jul 2004, 02:28 (Ref:1049388)

Ford never get what they want. The AU proposed Front Splitter and the BA proposed Rear Wing were both ripped off the cars before they ever hit the track in anger. The last thing that was taken off the Holdens was an insignificant couple of millimetres from their rear wing that had zero impact on performance..... The bias is blatant. So, any Ford victory can indeed be claimed as a win for the underdog !!

Boss330 · 28 Jul 2004, 04:01 (Ref:1049413)

Quote:

Originally posted by HDTVKSS
"Like i said before.... we were thrown a crumb last year just to keep the punters coming back....it wont happen again for awhile!!!!!!!! "

oh please. so this means that if Ambrose wins the championsip this year that youcan spark up and say how he was the underdog, won when he shouldnt have yadda yadda.

the idea that One side id favourred is laughable when BOTH sides need to be there for the series to survive.

at blueprint, both teams were invited to submit thir proposals, both did, and they got what they got.

get FPR's act togeather with some wynns stop smoke, get 888's finger out of their proverbial, get Ozemail to stop punting your main hope, get DJR to stop practicing for a demolition derby and thats 4 more teams u have up front.

the issues with ford go way beyond any supposed issues of parity.

For those of us that old enough to remember & have forgotten & for those that are to young here's the world according to me......Pre 1972 you raced what they made & ford demolished the oppsition, track records, race wins everywhere & from a variety of drivers & models. after 72 the rules changed & thus we entered a totally different ballgame where the rule makers saw holden as australia's "own" car & the rest could please themselves, case in point - L34's tearing axles out of their cars - solution - give them the ford 9" diff. XB & XC falcons suffering from oil surge due to higher corner speeds - solution - baffled sump (pleaded, argued, begged by Moffat) answer - NO & as told to Moffat by 1 cams official "if you dont like it race somewhere else" & of course he did (with mazda) & the list goes on througout the following decades. Until we got to the 90's then we got V8 supers, DJR came out of the box fireing mainly because they had data gained from their days with the 5.0L Mustang, end of season & a gigantic nobbling of the falcons & they have never really recovered with only 2 bathurst & 3 touring car titles to date & so we arrive at season 2004 where holden have a variety of engines & other goodies to choose from & 'the rest can please themselves". Some things never change!!!

DKGandBH · 28 Jul 2004, 04:11 (Ref:1049418)

So the FXs, EHs, Monaros and XU/1s never won anything... ?
David