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10 Jan 2006, 17:30 (Ref:1605756) | #1 | ||
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Did Andy B use a B40 for a time in 1978, and destroy it too, or am I dreaming things?? If he did, was it the one Harper got later, ie -08 ?
(Added in from B34-39 thread - JT) Last edited by John Turner; 11 May 2006 at 08:47. |
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21 Mar 2006, 17:29 (Ref:1555871) | #2 | ||
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Chevron B40
We don't seem to have any major discussion of B40s on any of the multi-topic threads so I'm starting this thread so we can talk about Andy Barton's B40 and see where that takes us.
Andy bought a B40 in time for the 1978 Bank Holiday Monday Croft meeting (see Autosport 8 June 1978 p51 and p57) but put it over the bank in practice. He never raced it again so presumably it was too bent even for Barton. To place this in Barton context, he'd been running the Sana and later ran the ex-Scheckter March 77B. I have no idea which car it was but we may be able to figure it out as the B40s were still pretty new. Fred Opert advertised the ex-Laffite/Merzario B40 four weeks after the crash(AS 29 Jun 1978 p67) so that rules that one out. It had run at Pau a month before with "a novice". |
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21 Mar 2006, 18:31 (Ref:1555920) | #3 | ||
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Chevron book says 11 built.
F1R says: B40-77-01 Ardmore/ICI [Hart] Silv 3/77 onwards (Mallock, Edwards, Tambay, Regazzoni, Daly, Henton). B40-77-02 Trivellato [BMW] Vallelunga 5/77 onwards (Patrese); Suzuka 11/77; Roloil 1978 (Cinotti) B40-77-03 ? B40-77-04 ROC [Chrysler] Rouen 6/77 onwards (Jaussaud, Ferrier); Scuderia Everest [Ferrari] Don Pk 10/77 (de Angelis)!!; Everest [BMW] all 1978 (Brancatelli, Martini, etc) B40-77-05 Opert [Hart] Silv 3/77 onwards (Wink Bancroft, Hans Royer) B40-77-06 Opert [Hart] Thruxton 4/77 onwards (Rosberg, Ribeiro, Merzario, Elgh) B40-77-07 ? B40-77-08 Opert [Hart] Hock 4/77 onwards (Laffite, Jones, Young, Flammini, Ribeiro, Rosberg, Needell [BMW]) B40-77-14 Klaus Ludwig [BDA] Don Pk 10/77!!; KWS 1978 Also: Tetsu Ikuzawa [BMW] Japan 5/77 to 11/77 ROC for Pignard [Chrysler] Pau 5/77 onwards Trivellato [BMW? Ferrari] Pergusa 7/77 onwards (Leoni) Masahiro Hasemi [Nissan] Japan 8/77 to 11/77 Keiji Matsumoto [BMW] Japan 8/77 to 10/77 Helmut Bross [BMW] 1978 Opert for Prost [Hart] Pau 1978 4 B40s in Japan 1978 In 1977, the missing 02, 07, 09, 10 and 11 match the second ROC and Trivellato cars plus the three Japanese cars. Ludwig's '14' is odd. But they nearly all disappear in 1978 so I'm no closer to knowing Barton's car. The works/Mallock car and the other Opert Hart car must be favourites. Allen |
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21 Mar 2006, 18:41 (Ref:1555928) | #4 | ||
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I may have got some of that wrong as I transcribed from the Black Book but the ROC car suddenly becoming the B40-Ferrari is clearly wrong.
Minardi (i.e. Scuderia Everest) borrowed the B40-Ferrari for Donington Park so if it was B40-77-04 maybe we don't know the numbers of either of the ROC Chrysler cars. Allen |
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21 Mar 2006, 19:17 (Ref:1555972) | #5 | ||
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B40-77-08
The car appeared in Speed Events with the following history:
1984 and 1985 - Richard Ames with a 2.0 Hart 1986 - Richard Ames but with a 2.5 Hart 1987 - ? 1988 to 1990 - now with Chris Hill and still with the 2.5 Hart At the end of 1991 it was sold on and went out of speed eventing. |
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21 Mar 2006, 19:37 (Ref:1555994) | #6 | ||||||
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Snippets from the 'other Chevron' thread:
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21 Mar 2006, 19:46 (Ref:1556004) | #7 | ||
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For what it's worth, I have the following (in addition to those in Allen's post)
03 The second ROC Chrysler car 07 Trillato/Leoni 1977, then Scuderia Everest (Ferrari) 1978 09 Japan (Nissan) 10 Japan 11 not built 12 Japan |
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21 Mar 2006, 20:33 (Ref:1556048) | #8 | |||
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I missed this:
Quote:
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21 Mar 2006, 20:36 (Ref:1556050) | #9 | |||
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Quote:
I quite forgot that chassis 11 would not have been built so I agree the Japanese cars are likely to be 09, 10 and 12. Do you have a source for those numbers or would they have been by process of elimination? Allen |
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21 Mar 2006, 21:36 (Ref:1556118) | #10 | |||||
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<expletive deleted>! I just found B40 stuff on the B34-39 thread. This dates from 3 Mar 2003.
Chris's list is much better than mine: Quote:
We then had this on 5 March Quote:
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22 Mar 2006, 09:29 (Ref:1557397) | #11 | ||
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Rear 30 Aug 2005 Following on from Oulton, I have a few 'Bolton observations' to note ! Of the 3 B40s there, Hadfield/Pye, Sidgwick, Burnett, the first was confirmed as -06, the Keke '77 car. I didn't have a pen to hand to take notes, but I think the Burnett one was described as -11 ex-KWS/Ludwig, then Iain Mclaren. The Sidgwick one wasn't numbered IIRC. Or perhaps I'm mixing up the latter 2... So unless it was the missing one above, where is the Opert/Prost-Ron Harper one now, -08 I think ? I should add that my observations were only quick ones, and shouldn't be taken as conclusive 'proof' of identities. Merely the ramblings of an enthusiastic amateur, with VERY little technical knowledge !!! The Mike Sidgwick car is one of the ex-Fred Opert cars. It was raced in the Thruxton F2 event by Bertil Roos before going 'over the pond' for the Atlantic series. |
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22 Mar 2006, 14:31 (Ref:1557490) | #12 | ||
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Are you sure Steve, I don't recall Roos in Euro F2 as late as '77. And would a B40 have done US Atlantic ?? I presume the Gibson car, in '79 I think, was -06, which Ron Harper later had. Anyone recall the car advertised by Dinorben Arms Inn - which was NOT the Mather B34D.
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22 Mar 2006, 15:42 (Ref:1557526) | #13 | |||
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23 Mar 2006, 10:56 (Ref:1558288) | #14 | |||
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As I attended the two UK races in 78 for F1R, and no Everest B40s were there, I am 99% certain that the numbers attributed by F1R to the Everest B40s in 1978 must have been guesses (?from press reports). I'm sure no-one else from F1R attended any 1978 continental F2 races, so couldn't have seen these cars in the flesh. |
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23 Mar 2006, 11:07 (Ref:1558302) | #15 | ||
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Adam
What about the ROC/Chrysler cars? Did you see either of those "in the flesh"? Allen |
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23 Mar 2006, 11:27 (Ref:1558436) | #16 | |||
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Quote:
They didn't come to any of the UK F2 races in 1977 or 78. |
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23 Mar 2006, 11:48 (Ref:1558445) | #17 | ||
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So in that case, maybe we need to strip it down to:
B40-77-01 Ardmore/ICI car 1977 ... B40-77-02 Trivellato's BMW car 1977 - Cinotti 1978 B40-77-03 ? B40-77-04 Chevron-Ferrari test car 1977 - Scuderia Everest 1978 B40-77-05 Opert [Hart] 1977 ... B40-77-06 Opert [Hart] 1977 ... Harper 2006 B40-77-07 Hasemi 1977 ... Japan 2006 B40-77-08 Opert [Hart then BMW] 1977 ... Harper 1980 ...?... Sidgwick 2006 B40-77-09 ? B40-77-10 ? B40-77-12 ? B40-77-14 Klaus Ludwig [BDA] 1977 - KWS 1978 - McLaren 1978 - Leckie 1979 ... Burnett 2006 If we conclude that there's no real evidence that 04 was a ROC car, it looks more likely to be the car that spent the summer banging its Ferrari's sump against various test tracks and then turns up to demonstrate its chassis number at Donington. ROC's cars must have been amongst 03, 09, 10 and 12 with the other two being the other Japanese cars. Given the timing, I'd be surprised if 03 wasn't a ROC car. F1R identify Prost's Pau 1978 Opert car as 06 but again with a dot so I'll ignore that. So where did the other Opert cars go in 1978? And the Ardmore car for that matter. Allen |
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23 Mar 2006, 13:20 (Ref:1558513) | #18 | ||
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IIRC the 79 Gibson car was described as ex-Prost, so -06 I'd reckon, which Harper later has, or was that -08?
Where have B42s/B48s gone in the new look Forum?? (Note - Don't worry Dan, we just haven't sorted it yet, but they will be here - JT) Last edited by John Turner; 23 Mar 2006 at 13:46. |
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23 Mar 2006, 15:07 (Ref:1558615) | #19 | |||
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Have we mentioned Bob Milne at Knockhill in 1980? I'm guessing that's the ex-Leckie 14 still up in Scotland. BTW, where I've said Harper 2006 in my summary, I meant to write Hadfield 2006. Allen |
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23 Mar 2006, 15:25 (Ref:1558627) | #20 | ||
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OK, I've just remembered one of my favourite sites, the Croft-based 1970s club racing site, and it has a picture of the Gibson B40. It also says the car was ex-Opert (ex-Rosberg of course, but probably the same way all 250Fs are ex-Fangio), bought by Gibson at the end of 1978 and that it was raced in F2 in 1977 and 1978. It also says it went to Ron Harper next. The livery matches pictures of Prost's car at Pau in 1978 but all Opert B40s might have looked like that for all I know.
Allen |
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23 Mar 2006, 16:46 (Ref:1558686) | #21 | |
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Ours is 06, repatriated from french hillclimbing, I think John Crowsons is the Laffite, Prost, Gibson ,car and Mike (?) Sidgwick's is the third team car. I have never heard of Opert running a BMW motor before.
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23 Mar 2006, 18:04 (Ref:1558737) | #22 | |||
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Quote:
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23 Mar 2006, 18:54 (Ref:1558775) | #23 | ||
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Simon
Do you know where you car was in 1978. Was it in French hill climbing that early or might it have done others things first? Allen |
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23 Mar 2006, 19:17 (Ref:1558801) | #24 | ||
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I had a quick browse of the 1978 European Hill Climb Championship results and found Michel Pignard finishing second at St Ursanne on 20 Aug 1978 in a "Chevron B40 Chrysler ROC".
Allen |
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23 Mar 2006, 19:23 (Ref:1558807) | #25 | |
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As far as we know it went directly to a French hillclimber and then with possibly only one further change of owner to us. The car still has its original engine, still has Keke's cockpit and came to us on M&H tyres!
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