Spectator Safety on UK Stage Rallies

[Paulaweybridge]

Colnbrook, Thursday 19 February 2015
An open letter from the MSA Chief Executive regarding spectator safety on UK stage rallies
This weekend marks the second anniversary of the tragic death of a spectator on the Snowman Rally, and of course on the Jim Clark Rally in 2014 three more spectators lost their lives in equally tragic circumstances.
As a result the Scottish Government, following an emergency debate in the Scottish Parliament, commissioned a major review of safety on stage rallies. This Scottish Government Motorsport Event Safety Review published its final report in January, and the MSA has since gone on record confirming its commitment to the implementation of the report’s recommendations, not only in Scotland but throughout the UK.
Clearly, there is going to be a period of transition while everyone concerned works as hard as possible to introduce the recommended changes. In the interim, I need to remind all spectators of the fact that they are ultimately responsible for their own personal safety.
I say this because despite these well-publicised tragedies, and despite the sport being well aware of the changes being brought about by the Scottish Review, I am astonished and dismayed that an irresponsible minority – and I stress minority – of spectators continue to display a wanton disregard for their own personal well-being.
This was brought home to me when viewing YouTube clips of last weekend’s Wyedean Forest Rally, and also from the truly shocking photograph from the same rally in yesterday’s Motorsport News (18 February, page 34) of a ‘spectator’ lying flat on the ground on the edge of the forest track, apparently taking a photograph extremely close to a competing vehicle.
This behaviour not only shows a complete disregard for personal safety but in addition places other spectators, officials and competing crews in danger. It also undermines the considerable efforts of the dedicated rally organisers, officials and marshals, who do all they can to ensure that events run as safely as possible.
The MSA is currently working on a daily basis with all other stakeholders in rallying, particularly the Forestry Commission, and I can confirm from discussions within the last few days that unless these few idiotic spectators concerned change their attitude immediately and behave responsibly, there will be no future for stage rallying in the UK. I am not talking about next year, or the year after; I am talking about right now. Even in the meantime, this sort of behaviour will mean that stages are cancelled and rallies disrupted or even stopped.
Please, for the sake of rallying in the UK, can all spectators take full responsibility not only for ensuring their own personal safety but also the future of the sport we all love.
Yours in motor sport,

Rob Jones
CHIEF EXECUTIVE




I could not agree with him more, there are some total idiots out there ...

[tbtstt]

Originally Posted by Paulaweybridge

I could not agree with him more, there are some total idiots out there ...

Agreed. We all like a good picture, but putting both yourself and the future of the sport at risk is not the way to get it!

[Badlands99]

Absolutely agree with all the above ...............

It was very interesting on last years Rally GB, the first that I have attended for probably 15 years, that the standard of behaviour of spectators varied greatly from those out on the Friday, to the following stages on the Saturday and Sunday.

Friday's spectators at the places that I was situated appeared to be very knowledgeable and were in the main standing in sensible, safe places off the actual stage. Obviously, most of these people were genuine fans who had more than likely taken time off work, spent money on accommodation etc in order to attend.
Saturday produced a huge contrast in behaviour, with many idiots standing either in the middle of the road or at best, very close to the lines that the drivers were taking. I was also shocked by the number of parents who appeared to have no apparent regard for the safety of their offspring - even to the extent of encouraging them to stand as close as possible!
Even saw one woman in Clocaenog Main struggling through inches deep mud with a pushchair, dressed in completely inappropriate clothing, actually on the stage route itself whilst it was still very much 'live' - what on earth was she doing with a kid of no more than 12 mths old on a rally stage anyway!

I really put the change in behaviour down to the way that rallies are run now .................. Back in 'The Good Old Days' when the RAC ran over 4/5 days, there were spectator stages designed specifically for the casual fan who could go to these stages, watch the cars through from a well marshalled area and then drive back home having got a little of the overall experience of 'going rallying' ........... most of the people who then followed the rally around the country had a pretty good idea how to behave. I understand that back in the 90's, Rallying just got too popular for it's own good and you often ended up with gridlock around various parts of the country as the rally passed through but I think that most people following the event knew how to behave.

Do I want to go back again this year ......... not sure?

[chunder]

To be brutally honest, photographers are a right royal pain in most motorsport.

Half the time they are looking at their poxy screen and missing things that are oging on, then they are moaning at peple for getting in the way when we have just as much right to be there, in fact more as we are simply watching than they do.

In rallies you needs eyes in the back of your head, the marshals there have a very difficult job, almost impossible on popular events. I feel it's impossible to properly control the amount of people taking pictures, I would never dream of taking a camera with me to any event, it spoils my enjoyment and those around me.

But in some rallies you simply cannot control numbers, and that's the problem.

Network Q in my eyes is fairly good, it's easier to marshal less stages. Try watching some of the pure sound stuff from 93 in the snow and you will see stages rtere where fans are totally rampant and have no idea whats going on

[CaptRustyNail]

Does any have a copy of the image that is referred to in Motorsport News?

I don't have a subscription to the mag and finding one where i live is difficult so it seems.

I was marshalling arrival on SS2 at the Wyedean, i know not as bad as the live sages but still, we told spectators to climb the style and walk along the fenceline to the stage, many did but there were some who simply walked to the enxt style (100m away) and back onto the stage.

[Alex Langheck]

Not sure what the answer is. Do you ban spectators? Do you set up strict 'viewing areas' were everywere else is 'out of bounds'?
There is only so much organisers can do - sadly, they are deemed responsible if somebody standing in a stupid place is injured/ killed.
One of the great things about Rallying is getting up close to the cars, within reason. How long before we are watching 10-15-20+ metres back?

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by CaptRustyNail

Does any have a copy of the image that is referred to in Motorsport News?

http://i.imgur.com/yPkTF7D.jpg

Had to do a double-take, nearly didn't spot him at first glance.

[TrapezeArtist]

I too was concerned at some of the youtube videos I saw. The last few junctions of SS2 (Speech House) seemed to be the biggest issue. Presumably there were spectator car parks within easy reach, and that drew a lot of people to a small area.

I marshalled a junction in Speech House that had a sizeable number of spectators. There was a fair amount of tape around the junction and I didn't have any problems keeping people behind the tape. I would have preferred the tape to have been further back though so I could have kept a bigger margin of safety. With hindsight I should have moved the tape myself when I first arrived on station, and added a bit more in a couple of places.

The second stage I covered had far fewer spectators and they all placed a tree between themselves and the likely path of a wayward car, without any need for intervention on my part.

[2020zoom]

Originally Posted by chunder

To be brutally honest, photographers are a right royal pain in most motorsport.

Half the time they are looking at their poxy screen and missing things that are oging on, then they are moaning at peple for getting in the way when we have just as much right to be there, in fact more as we are simply watching than they do.

In rallies you needs eyes in the back of your head, the marshals there have a very difficult job, almost impossible on popular events. I feel it's impossible to properly control the amount of people taking pictures, I would never dream of taking a camera with me to any event, it spoils my enjoyment and those around me.

I'd have to take issue with you on this. I've been shooting motor sport events for many years and, whilst some photographers are a danger to themselves and others, this applies to spectators in general. Most regular motor sport photographers know exactly what they're doing and where they should and shouldn't stand. I attend marshal training session every year and this gives you a handle on the safety side of things. I shoot for Autosport and Motorsport News but I never want to be the dead guy who got the best rally shot ever just before he was struck by a car.

I attended the AGBO rally last weekend and spectators simply didn't have any idea how to cross the track during stages and they have no concept of where a car might end up if it went out of shape. We had MSA officials there overseeing things as there is huge concern right now about these kind if issues.

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by 2020zoom

I'd have to take issue with you on this. I've been shooting motor sport events for many years and, whilst some photographers are a danger to themselves and others, this applies to spectators in general. Most regular motor sport photographers know exactly what they're doing and where they should and shouldn't stand. I attend marshal training session every year and this gives you a handle on the safety side of things. I shoot for Autosport and Motorsport News but I never want to be the dead guy who got the best rally shot ever just before he was struck by a car.

I attended the AGBO rally last weekend and spectators simply didn't have any idea how to cross the track during stages and they have no concept of where a car might end up if it went out of shape. We had MSA officials there overseeing things as there is huge concern right now about these kind if issues.

Whilst I broadly agree there are a couple of points I'd like to make:

* There are 'pro' photographers that know what they're doing - both in terms of what's happening in front of them but also in respect of trying not to get in anyone elses way. But there are also people the track side of the fence that appear clueless in both respects - and that can be hugely frustrating for 'normal' people who have paid to watch the track action not to stare at the back of a photographers head.

* Whilst some spectators are clearly clueless about such things as the laws of physics there are also spectators that are very much aware of how competition cars behave - lots of spectators compete, marshal or are involved some way in motorsport so understand the vagaries of competition cars.

So basically there are good and bad in both camps and you can't really tar everyone with the same brush. I just think that numpty spectators are more obvious on rallies as they aren't physically prevented from getting in the way of competing cars.

[chunder]

There is an issue with rally spectators and education.

Rallying is siffering a lot these days and if youa re not able to take an event into a town as they often do in Europe and attract large groups of people into controlled areas, then you have to accept theya re going to wander about largely uncontrolled in forests and open areas.

The fact they do not necessarily have a clue is not their problem in the true sense, if they have been able to simly walk into a stage and have never watched anything before, how are they supposed to know?

Photographers know what they are doing usually, but some of them think they have a God given right to a shot, and a right to be able to get a clear view. They do not, no matter what bib they are wearing. And let's face it most of them are just as amateur as simple fans, they just have a camera and perhaps a new lens and are trying it out, they dont know what is going on as much as the next guy.

This has been the way for decades, most events do not publicise their events as they know full well if they do they might have problems dealing with groups of people. Most spectating is free, a rarity in any kind of sport these days. And therefore the only way you can expect to deal with it is to have more marhsals or even security on site to deal with crowds.

In Europe they tend to be able to manage quite well, a lot of rallies go through towns and villages and are easier to police, there is not as much forst stuff obviously. But even when there is the tracks in Finland, Norway and laces like Estonia just seem more open and easier to marshal, though speeds are high.

I just think panic is gripping the MSA, and putting people in pens is knee jerk. It is not a solution

[rdjones]

The issue here is not just photorgrahers, it is specators and safety of events in general. As I understand it from following a thead on another forum the main issues lie with forest event's not single venue events (most of which are none specator anyway).

As I say from what I have seen elsewhere the H&S bods are not happy with lots of other 'dangerous' actives on Forestry Commision land and they could all get the chop and this includes rallying. This is why there is the big safety review going on at present it could either way but the top and bottom is rallying needs get it house in order or that's it no more forest rallies in the UK.

I just hope the MSA can find a solution. However when things like what happen on the Boarder Counties don't help the situation when some quad bikers turned up on stage as it was about to go live and they went into the stage not to be seen again and because of this the stage was cancelled.

[Tal Aras]

Originally Posted by 2020zoom

I attended the AGBO rally last weekend and spectators simply didn't have any idea how to cross the track during stages and they have no concept of where a car might end up if it went out of shape. We had MSA officials there overseeing things as there is huge concern right now about these kind if issues.

This suggests that the issue is as much about education as anything else. I know there are lots of signs saying motorsport is dangerous but does anyone explain the dangers to the specators? There's an article on Autosport today about the threat to rallies and it mentions On-line Training for marshals. Maybe it should include a "Before you go to watch a rally" section for new spectators and possibly a "How to take good photos safely" section as well.

Good publicity before an event including maps showing the viewing spots and prohibited and restricted areas will help. The Isle of Man TT does this (they are helped by being able to make being in a prohibited/restricted area a criminal offence). I appreciate smaller ralleis might not be able to do this but they're not the oens attracting the big crowds.

On the rallies themselves, surely the responsibility for safety can't just rest with the marshals/officials but the specators have to be responsible as well. Not just for their own safety but also for creating a safety concious envrionment.

I'm not talking about policing the satge but instead giving quiet words of advice to obviously new specators as to where to stand and how to behave (and what to do when a car comes off the road straight at you). Quiet words with an explanation are often all that's needed. I coach kids mini rugby and a few times I've overheard a parent advise an "overenthusiastic" parent new to rugby that shouting at a small child to hurt another child isn't how the game is played. In every case there's a brief pause, usually an appology and certainly no need for me to step in as a reprsentative of the club.

I would say that the other side to all this is that's there's likely to be an increased need for marshals so if anyones been thinking about it maybe this is a good time to offer to help.

[mark_l]

I remember marshalling on a rally in the last century, where some spectators were reluctant to move from the outside of a bend.

The marshals who went over to have a quiet word with them were met with a torrent of abuse, and the spectators refused to move.

The doctor who was on our junction went to his car, and then approached the spectators. The doctor then started dishing out organ donor cards, asking the spectators if they weren't going to move at least fill in the cards.

I've never seen people move so fast.

A new law is not needed but education is, both for the spectators and the organising clubs and officials.

[JimW]

I don't believe it is very much to do with education, it is just that we are missing the JFDI stick.

Jim