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Old 1 Apr 2018, 12:30 (Ref:3812285)   #1
Casper
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Mercedes After 2021

I find it fairy humorous when I constantly read of people saying that we need the new regs in 2021 to stop MB's dominance of the sport. I want to know what they are smoking because there is no guarantee that MB will not build a motor that is less dominant than what they have now and I think it is fairly likely to tell the truth that their next one will be at the top of the pile as well. Their history in motor sport has been to rise to the top in just about every class or formula they have raced in and I can't see that changing.
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Old 2 Apr 2018, 00:14 (Ref:3812391)   #2
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Jeez, you just had to make it even more depressing, huh?
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Old 2 Apr 2018, 01:04 (Ref:3812398)   #3
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Jeez, you just had to make it even more depressing, huh?
It's not a good thought but I can't see anything else happening. Race teams tend to be like this, once they get on top they stay there. The Germans are so good at this stuff, MB, Audi and Porsche have more successes than failures as a rule. It was a German driver who lifted Ferrari which may be coincidental but I don't think so. Seriously every time someone says we need the new regs to stop MB I laugh 'cause it is not going to be that easy to stop them.
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Old 2 Apr 2018, 05:17 (Ref:3812409)   #4
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I It was a German driver who lifted Ferrari which may be coincidental but I don't think so. Seriously every time someone says we need the new regs to stop MB I laugh 'cause it is not going to be that easy to stop them.
It was a lot more than a German driver that put Ferrari back on the map.... the driver was just the person who used his talents to maximise the car created by the greatest engineering talents assembled and co-ordinated by Jean Todt and Ferraris open cheque book approach at the time. Without the car the German driver would have been far less successful.
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Old 2 Apr 2018, 05:37 (Ref:3812410)   #5
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It was a lot more than a German driver that put Ferrari back on the map.... the driver was just the person who used his talents to maximise the car created by the greatest engineering talents assembled and co-ordinated by Jean Todt and Ferraris open cheque book approach at the time. Without the car the German driver would have been far less successful.
No doubt you are right but MS did a huge amount of work, way more than F1 drivers normally did and it showed. But this isn't about Ferrari it is about MB and why people expect them to begin losing after 2021. I see it everywhere, we need 2021 to sort out MB's dominance.
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Old 2 Apr 2018, 05:48 (Ref:3812412)   #6
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. we need 2021 to sort out MB's dominance.
Agreed. The question is how?
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Old 2 Apr 2018, 06:09 (Ref:3812415)   #7
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Agreed. The question is how?
Either another manufacturer steps up to the plate and does an equally good job on both the car and the engine and also the team structure, the last being very important or MB will continue to roll forward as it has been doing. They show no signs of leaving and I think it would be nearly impossible to regulate equivalency so I guess we had better get used to it. It just strikes me as strange the way that everyone expects 2021 to result in MB losing the engine battle when it is obvious that the chance of that happening are fairly remote to say the least. More worrying is that there has been no discussion & recognition that MB will continue to dominate. Ignore it and it might go away??

It could be prevented by not allowing any team racing to be a motor manufacturer but MB, Ferrari, Reno & Honda would walk away. That would be the only way to prevent MB continuing to dominate. I am still wondering why F1 need a bespoke motor but that is a discussion for another thread.
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Old 2 Apr 2018, 07:43 (Ref:3812426)   #8
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It could be prevented by not allowing any team racing to be a motor manufacturer but MB, Ferrari, Reno & Honda would walk away. That would be the only way to prevent MB continuing to dominate. I am still wondering why F1 need a bespoke motor but that is a discussion for another thread.
The way to bring the whole field into a sensible zone where everybody can compete would be to go back to a normally aspirated V8.
Then give them spec single plane single profile front and rear wings of much reduced size.

You would then have a racing class where it would be very difficult to dominate.

Mercedes' strength lies in the hybrid power unit that has no practical road relevance whatsoever, and a massive sunk cost of investment that nobody else will or rather can afford to invest just to be competitive in F1.

Until hybrid PU's are ditched nobody will be properly competitive, as nobody can afford to go down the blind alley!
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Old 2 Apr 2018, 08:02 (Ref:3812431)   #9
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The way to bring the whole field into a sensible zone where everybody can compete would be to go back to a normally aspirated V8.
Then give them spec single plane single profile front and rear wings of much reduced size.

You would then have a racing class where it would be very difficult to dominate.

Mercedes' strength lies in the hybrid power unit that has no practical road relevance whatsoever, and a massive sunk cost of investment that nobody else will or rather can afford to invest just to be competitive in F1.

Until hybrid PU's are ditched nobody will be properly competitive, as nobody can afford to go down the blind alley!
You and I both know that NA is off the table and won't even be considered or discussed.
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Old 2 Apr 2018, 08:24 (Ref:3812433)   #10
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You and I both know that NA is off the table and won't even be considered or discussed.
It is, and until it isn't we probably won't have any racing or equality.

There is endless discussion of less cost and yet they just make the obligatory equipment more and more expensive.

Perhaps we could just have V6 turbos without any of the eye wateringly expensive sham attached.

P.S. What happened to the open scrutineering proposal?
Anybody?
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Old 2 Apr 2018, 08:35 (Ref:3812435)   #11
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By 2021 even hybrids will loose road relevance quickly (street cars going all ellectric fairly quickly). Possibly a while after, atmosperic high revving engines might be seen as a good option again if you want too provide excitement and all electric is no option.
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Old 2 Apr 2018, 12:29 (Ref:3812472)   #12
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It's easy to solve if F1 has the balls for it, which they don't.

Make the engine rules simpler and cost effective so it becomes more attractive for new engine builders, like Cosworth, Judd, and the likes, to enter the sport.
And if manufacturers like Mercedes, Ferrari, Renault, etc. start complaining and threatening to leave, kick them out of the sport.

Simples, if F1 was actually led by men with testicles.
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Old 2 Apr 2018, 12:33 (Ref:3812474)   #13
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Surley the Mercedes-AMG Project One supercar program proves the road relevance of their F1 engine program no?

Super expensive sure but it's proof that the tech can be monetized outside of F1.

That said, they are letting Ferrari do the quitting talk for them...probably just posturing and they will end up getting what they want but as of now I don't think it's a 100% certainty that either team stays for post 2021.

More so for Merc given their potential FE program. They have hedged their bets imo.
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Old 2 Apr 2018, 14:26 (Ref:3812491)   #14
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It's easy to solve if F1 has the balls for it, which they don't.

Make the engine rules simpler and cost effective so it becomes more attractive for new engine builders, like Cosworth, Judd, and the likes, to enter the sport.
And if manufacturers like Mercedes, Ferrari, Renault, etc. start complaining and threatening to leave, kick them out of the sport.

Simples, if F1 was actually led by men with testicles.
It is easier than that, restrict the resources at the track to manage the car and ban back to base telemetry. If they can't manage it they can't use it, simples. Ban the use of all those big fancy screens, no live telemetry off the car and a shed load of money just got saved in direct overheads.
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Old 2 Apr 2018, 15:33 (Ref:3812499)   #15
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and ban radio and pitstops, just strap the driver in and let him drive , no need then for millions of race simulations and engineers in concrete bunkers calling strategy
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