[WEC] Peugeot exits Le Mans racing

[gwyllion]

A lot of strange gossip has been written lately.

For instance http://sport.turbomagazine.be/news_N...personen_.html claims that the withdrawal was an internal power struggle, centered around Quesnel, instead of an economic decision

[Articus]

Looks like good news. Seems Peugeot is atleast interested in returning soon and haven;t just said there is no need for motorsport participation.

[CTD]

Again, i'll believe it when it's official

[Acid09]

Originally Posted by Articus

Looks like good news. Seems Peugeot is atleast interested in returning soon and haven;t just said there is no need for motorsport participation.

Again, several sources said that they let go all of their staff, including the higher-up engineers.

If that's true, a timely return will be highly complicated and costly since all the experience they´ve gained during the past five years has gone down the drain.

It really makes no sense, if I want to restart the program in a few years I don't destroy its very foundation. All in all very unlikely, either the statement in the article above is untrue or that they have fired everyone is false... unfortunately the latter has been confirmed by various sources as far as I can see.

[pdxracefan]

Originally Posted by Acid09

Again, several sources said that they let go all of their staff, including the higher-up engineers.

If that's true, a timely return will be highly complicated and costly since all the experience they´ve gained during the past five years has gone down the drain.

It really makes no sense, if I want to restart the program in a few years I don't destroy its very foundation. All in all very unlikely, either the statement in the article above is untrue or that they have fired everyone is false... unfortunately the latter has been confirmed by various sources as far as I can see.

Of course it makes no sense. And you are surprised, why?

[Articus]

Originally Posted by Acid09

Again, several sources said that they let go all of their staff, including the higher-up engineers.

If that's true, a timely return will be highly complicated and costly since all the experience they´ve gained during the past five years has gone down the drain.

It really makes no sense, if I want to restart the program in a few years I don't destroy its very foundation. All in all very unlikely, either the statement in the article above is untrue or that they have fired everyone is false... unfortunately the latter has been confirmed by various sources as far as I can see.

I thought the important staff where simply reshuffled to other area's. Is Quesnel no longer working for Peugeot?

[pdxracefan]

Originally Posted by Articus

I thought the important staff where simply reshuffled to other area's. Is Quesnel no longer working for Peugeot?

Who the hell really knows? It's all a mystery at this point. It depends on whose release, or point of view you believe.

Stay tuned, I'd say...

[Laurent]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

A lot of strange gossip has been written lately.

For instance http://sport.turbomagazine.be/news_N...personen_.html claims that the withdrawal was an internal power struggle, centered around Quesnel, instead of an economic decision

Absolutely untrue...

[gregtummer]

When is the next SPEED SportsCar chat?

After the Daytona 24 goes off the air like last year?

[Acid09]

Things are getting weirder by the hour...

http://www.motorsport-total.com/mehr..._12012704.html

Motorsport-Total.com reports on the extended entry deadline for the WEC, according to Rebellion the decision has been made "in the interest of endurance racing".

The article also claims that negotiations between Peugeot and possible privateers are/have been still on-going since the announcement of their withdrawal - That of course directly conflicts with what we´ve heard from other sources.

They list a bunch of possible teams to run the cars, namely Pescarolo, DAMS & Highcroft. To add to the confusion, Davidson said on Twitter he'll be back in the cockpit soon and Sarrazin told MS-Total "It would be very sad if the 908 wouldn't be run anymore".

What's going on here? Grasping at straws? Real hope?

If so, maybe pressure from the FIA & ACO has changed Peugeot's mind? Their initial reaction seemed to be to have no interest in privateer entered 908s but it seems like this thing isn't 100% dead yet.

[Paradise City]

It's obvious what's happening to me. A boardroom power struggle is well underway between the racing people and clueless execs who think they can turn 'on and off' like a light switch a racing program they couldn't quite let go off in the first place. PSA seem to fall into this type of nonsense from time to time.

[Acid09]

Maybe one of the suits got his calculator out and realized the amount of money they have dumped into the Hybrid.4 without getting any kind of marketable gain for it whatsoever?

[CTD]

Let's not judge anyone when we don't know anything!

Let's remember that journalists too can over interpretate things, and see things which isn't mean't as they are taken.

[Victor_RO]

I guess we shall have to wait for Feb 2 to see what has actually been going on behind the scenes...

[AGD]

Originally Posted by Acid09

Things are getting weirder by the hour...

They list a bunch of possible teams to run the cars, namely Pescarolo, DAMS & Highcroft. To add to the confusion, Davidson said on Twitter he'll be back in the cockpit soon and Sarrazin told MS-Total "It would be very sad if the 908 wouldn't be run anymore".

What's going on here? Grasping at straws? Real hope?

I suspect that it would not do Peugeot harm to listen to offers (someone could knock their socks off), but that MT article seemed to be offering pure speculation rather than anything concrete. Maybe it's a bad translation, who knows.

[Paradise City]

Even at face value it was a wild decision made too quickly. A proper method in which to save costs is to downscale the program and nurse it to a halt at the end or near the end of a development cycle so you can recoup partially on the investment and save image. Then you can forget about racing programs for the next decade or whatever. Given that its France and tough to fire people, it makes this choppy-chop-chop decision even more bewildering.

PSA have form for this with the F1 power struggles and the uncertainty even with the WRC rally program when Peugeot was first pit against Citreon back in the day. They seem to make these kind of gaffes and haven't always had their marketing head screwed on properly.

[Fogelhund]

The Autoweek article is based upon the original release information. Obviously information has come to light since then. For this program to run again in 2013, there needs to be a complete business turnaround within six months... The odds of that happening at this point look incredibly remote.

[AGD]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

Even at face value it was a wild decision made too quickly. A proper method in which to save costs is to downscale the program and nurse it to a halt at the end or near the end of a development cycle so you can recoup partially on the investment and save image.

As far as saving image, that may have been one of the main reasons for dumping the racing program so quickly. Employees are losing their jobs and such. They may have to make it look like they are doing everything they can to save money and/or use money on hand in the most desperate areas. Even though development has been done that might go to waste, I guess there is still money that has not been spent that would have been spent if they actually went to the races. I'm not really sure if that is a huge amount at least for Le Mans, but it is something. Also, perhaps the reason for the total cut is that someone wants to buy the facilities. PURE comes to mind since they've been discussed.

On the other hand, is it possible that Peugeot has no clue what Peugeot is doing? Quite possibly so!

[gwyllion]

I also think that the Motorsport-Total article is mainly speculation. Maybe the German reporter also read the l'Equipe article that a privateer deal was closed before Peugeot pulled the plug. According to DSC Didier Calmels was behind that deal.

Look at the name they give for the possible teams to run the car. In a number of interviews Henri Pescarolo said that the 908 is too expensive for privateers.
Highcroft is already running the Deltawing car during Le Mans. Last year Duncan Dayton was unable to secure the necessary budget to run the HPD LMP1 car, which is probably a lot cheaper than the 908.

The article also refers to this tweet from Davidson:

Originally Posted by @antdavidson

Thanks for the messages of support re Peugeot's exit from the WEC. Disappointing news but I'm positive I'll be back behind the wheel soon!

That sounds more like driver being hopeful that he can land another drive (in LMP1 or GT) for next year, after the completely unsuspected withdrawal of Peugeot.

[gwyllion]

More evidence that the article is pure speculation. The whole argument is based on the fact that the WEC/24LM deadline has been postponed by the ACO, which was reported on the Rebellion twitter.

However, the deadline extension is complete fiction:

Originally Posted by @dsceuroeditor

Odd. The ACO has now announced the deadline was not extended and selection committee has met already.

Originally Posted by @johndagys

Looks like the ACO has expanded the grid of the 24 Hours of Le Mans to 57 cars. 56 + Deltawing (presumably). Per @24hoursoflemans PR release

[Laurent]

There is absolutely no chance to see a Peugeot 908 on track this year.

[Coach Ep]

Before it´s first race WEC is already looking more and more like F1 (or Coronation Street, whatever you prefer...).

[Tim the Grey]

Having worked within Major Car Companies before, it's no surprise that 'frills' get chopped first. The biggest 'frill' in the eyes of redundant workers is Company bosses swilling champagne at a racing weekend. It matters not one jot if it's already been paid for, they see it as utterly unfair. So it gets canned, first.
Remember Renault's F1 effort was sold when the parent company had a difficult financial result or two.
Pity Peugeot couldn't soft land this into a competent outfits hands, but, we are where we are. If you are closing production plants, you have to be seen to cut the racing programme first. Otherwise you are into unions calling strikes, and a massive PR battle with the public. It's cheaper to just write the thing off.

[cmk]

Originally Posted by Tim the Grey

Having worked within Major Car Companies before, it's no surprise that 'frills' get chopped first. The biggest 'frill' in the eyes of redundant workers is Company bosses swilling champagne at a racing weekend. It matters not one jot if it's already been paid for, they see it as utterly unfair. So it gets canned, first.
Remember Renault's F1 effort was sold when the parent company had a difficult financial result or two.
Pity Peugeot couldn't soft land this into a competent outfits hands, but, we are where we are. If you are closing production plants, you have to be seen to cut the racing programme first. Otherwise you are into unions calling strikes, and a massive PR battle with the public. It's cheaper to just write the thing off.

This is all completely 'sensible' in the real world, even if we feel it makes no sense to us as racing fans, because the latter is an emotional response. Furthermore, despite it 'all being paid for' in the sense of capital investment in development and production to date, the operating budget to compete has not been paid for. The sunk capital cost doesn't justify continued financially detrimental investment (Concorde fallacy).

What's more the crying shame to me is they couldn't find a way to play both sides, creating the illusion of withdrawal to appease internal pressure while still running a privateer programme with some backdoor support to keep competing, keep the 908 programme alive in case 2013 is a brighter year (unlikely, but possible) and most importantly to keep some positive press about Peugeot's sporting activities. Alas, it would require some budget to exist to be creatively re-routed, and a complete axe closes those alleys as well. The Renault option is an interesting one though...effectively sell it to the banking/financing portion of your own company!

[merlot brougham]

Alright, so this much is clear. The 908 would be FAR too expensive for a privateer outfit to run without manufacturer support of a team of engineers and technicians. That costs $$. Money that PSA says it doesn't have. I totally get that. They need to concentrate on launching new cars because they really aren't doing to well in their core business...selling cars. Having worked in the corporate world my entire work career I totally get the decision from a financial perspective.

I also get, from a financial perspective, why they would keep everyone from Peugeot Sport in house and redistribute them around the company. It costs an INSANE amount of money to lay employees off. Even more so in a country like France where worker's rights are so robust. So, in theory, they would still have everyone to fire the program up again. But I think that is just being hopeful.

Now, riddle me this. How is it that two of the largest auto manufacturers in the WORLD get bailed out by the US government and NEITHER of them cancelled any of their motorsports programs? We're not talking about a bad quarter or a bad year...they were on the verge of bankruptcy. And yet, they raced through it.

So tell me this, are the motorsports that GM and Chrysler participate in that much better at ROI for marketing dollars that they could justify keeping those programs? And if that's the case how does GM stay in ALMS and Peugeot can't manage the WEC? There are some deep questions here about what sort of value sportscar racing has to manufacturers at all. And possibly a good explanation as to why world sportscar championships always seem to fail while Le Mans is going strong a century later.