Spa 24 Hours 2018

[Mountain Man]

and with the 'parc fermé' on their roofs.
---
In the lower pits they weren't.

[Anyopenroad]

Originally Posted by gert

European Le Mans Series in september?
I think I will be going.

Two for one deal: Nürburgring VLN on Sat and Spa ELMS on Sun. Did that last year, same this year. The two tracks are barely 90 mins drive apart.

[MaskedRacer]

Having a safety car after EVERY virtual yellow/full course yellow was annoying. Probably kept the Mercedes and Audi runners closer to the 2 BMWs than they really should have been. The M6 was the fastest car on the day easily of the top runners. Bentley could have matched the pace but they ran into reliability problems and crashes.

[Mountain Man]

Originally Posted by MaskedRacer

Having a safety car after EVERY virtual yellow/full course yellow was annoying. Probably kept the Mercedes and Audi runners closer to the 2 BMWs than they really should have been. The M6 was the fastest car on the day easily of the top runners. Bentley could have matched the pace but they ran into reliability problems and crashes.

On lap times, the Bentley was comfortably the fastest. Both in terms of fastest lap and the consistency of fast laps

[Akrapovic]

Yeah the Bentley had the speed, just nothing else. Accidents, reliability and some odd M-Sport strategy didn't help.

[Badlands99]

Finally back from Spa ………. And also back in the land of the living after a very tiring weekend!

Thought I might add a few observations to the conversations.
This was my second Spa 24 Hours and have to say was just as enjoyable as the first.

Of all the criticism of SRO for their use and implementation of the BOP, I have to say that it produces a fantastic spectacle to watch. I am a seasoned race goer, my wife however has only recently been converted and her observations often bring a little bit of reality to proceedings.

Many times she commented how much nicer Spa was compared to Le Mans – easier to get around, better atmosphere in both the town for the procession, and also at the circuit. The ease of access to all areas being one of her big plus points – we got back to the car at around 5.30pm on Sunday and we were back in the hotel 10 miles away by 6.00pm, and little or no queuing to get in on race day - take note Silverstone! The repeated use of the safety car after the FCYs, whilst a little annoying for me, ensured that the cars were bunched more often which she suggested made it even more spectacular! She enjoyed photographing some of the more hairy moments caused by the artificial bunching of the pack. Sometimes we forget that those of us who prefer the ‘purer’ forms of sport are not always the only ones watching! Ultimately, is it a sport or a show? I guess probably somewhere in between! She even sat and watched the whole six hours from Paul Ricard as she said she wanted to get a flavour before we went to Spa and then ended up not being able to tear herself away from the TV!

I understand the complaints about BOP but have to say with so many cars in contention for much of the event, no one manufacturer dominating the whole time, really made it enjoyable for me and also unpredictable, which is how I like my sport. I went hoping for a Bentley win and they were close but ultimately accidents and reliability prevented a win.
I was a bit disappointed in WRT for spoiling the Super Pole by trying to bend the rules – Merc did something similar in 2016 and also got caught. Handing Audi 15kgs on Saturday morning was a little heavy handed but, again, ensured an even playing field ….. and I know not everyone will agree that this is the way to go …….. but, it works!

I really enjoy Spa for the excellent access that you get to almost all areas, pits, paddock, all areas of the track - even if it does mean putting the walking boots on sometimes. The atmosphere is very relaxed, almost without exception everybody was helpful and friendly and just looking to have a good time.

For me SRO/Spa have this one just about right – 65 cars of which probably any one of 20/25 could have won – has to be good for the sport and I think that Mr Ratel really knows how to run a championship which bodes well for the future of GT racing. For now this series is producing a fantastic spectacle, with close racing from different manufacturers and teams but still, apparently, keeping most of those involved reasonably happy.

Long may that continue!

[Mountain Man]

better atmosphere in both the town for the procession
---
That is a really good point. The Le Mans parade I found frankly embarrassing. It was grown adults desperately scrabbling after cheap rubbish freebies being thrown out. The Spa parade is just so much enjoyable.

One thing I did this year was get back to Francorchamps before the cars, so I saw them come back. Seeing them come back into the village then turn down the hill (at the corner where the Italian restaurant is) and a lot of them flooring it, was one of the highlights of the week for me. It's definitely something I'll do again next year

[Badlands99]

MM

That had been our plan too ……….. but the hold up at the Tunnel sort of put the mockers on that as it was a race to get there in the first place.

[Juntos]

Originally Posted by Badlands99

Of all the criticism of SRO for their use and implementation of the BOP, I have to say that it produces a fantastic spectacle to watch.

Those who criticize SRO's BOP are ACO affiliated, on ACO payroll or mere fanboys that believe everything about the ACO run series is flawless (that is what they read in certain media). Don't forget criticism is an indirect form of self-boasting.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Juntos

Those who criticize SRO's BOP are ACO affiliated, on ACO payroll or mere fanboys that believe everything about the ACO run series is flawless (that is what they read in certain media). Don't forget criticism is an indirect form of self-boasting.

Nonsense. I've heavily criticised the ACO, but I'll call the SRO BoP crap when it's crap. When you had Mercedes locking out almost all of the top 10, and being 2 laps faster than the rest of the field over a race distance, that's crap.

SROs current BoP is pretty good. But it's also had plenty of times it's been miles off. Criticism isn't self-boasting. Sometimes what's being talked about deserves criticism. Otherwise, everything ever is literally perfect and cannot be criticised.

Call it like it is.

[gert]

Originally Posted by Juntos

Those who criticize SRO's BOP are ACO affiliated, on ACO payroll or mere fanboys that believe everything about the ACO run series is flawless (that is what they read in certain media). Don't forget criticism is an indirect form of self-boasting.

Why should that be?

I like and follow a lot of racing series, such as (but not limited to) F1, Indycar, WEC, Blancpain. Not necessarily in that order of preference.
None of these series is perfect and I have been critical of them in their respective forums.
Most of my issues revolve around the (un-)balance of performance, the handling of accidents and especially what happens afterwards (until we go back to green), the handling of pitstops or no pitstops under FCY/SC/SlowZone/..., (enforced) maximum driver stint lengths, enforced (minimum) pitstop times, ...

As you may (not) have noticed at least the ACO series has introduced some of those rules and notimproved the prduct, as far as I'm concerned.

Being critical of how one party manages things doesn't automatically make you a fan of how the other party manages things.

[Badlands99]

I was not suggesting for one moment that SRO and the way that they do things are perfect - it isn't in many areas ......... BUT.......... both at Paul Ricard & Spa it produced some spectacular racing and for the casual fan this is what he sees. After the two hours at Spa, my good lady piped up with 'why can't F1 be like this'!

I don't agree with the pit stop rules but I do get the reasons - the top Pro teams would run away with it if they were allowed to throw unlimited amounts of money at pit stop procedures.

The ACO are also very heavy handed when they utilize BOP/EOT - the problem that I have with the ACO methods is that it is not always done to produce close racing - Toyota's advantage at Le Mans this year for example. Too much of 'we will do this for you this year but you might have to take it on the chin next time' for my liking. Ford in 2016 was another example ...............

[gert]

There is a thin line between close racing and artificial close racing.
As far as I'm concerned, SRO oversteps that mark with the unnecessary bunching up of the cars with a Safety Car after every FCY.[*]

But that is just my opinion. Some others may applaud that measure and have of course every right to do so.

[*] Plus, IMO, it creates an additional security risk.
Would the accident with the 666 Lambo and the Parker Bentley have happened if the car's weren't bunched up like they were now? IIRC the accident happened not long after a previous FCY + SC


EDIT: I understand that there are situations where a Safety Car intervention is needed/the best solution. I won't complain about those, of course.

[GregUK]

Originally Posted by gert

Would the accident with the 666 Lambo and the Parker Bentley have happened if the car's weren't bunched up like they were now? IIRC the accident happened not long after a previous FCY + SC

But if a butterfly in the Amazon rain forest had farted, the accident may have been prevented.....!

[Akrapovic]

I think that's a bit unfair on gert. Remember we've been here before with the Spa 24. There was a year not long ago where the constant use of the SC caused an endless cycle of yellows.

The phrase cautions breed cautions isn't just a nice saying. It has some merit. SRO is using SCs for the sake of it when it doesn't need to. So are they artificially introducing accidents doing this? Given Spa 24 history, that's not an unreasonable question to ask.

[Miguel]

If anyone is interested in a couple of half decent photos we did over last week, then have a look: https://www.gt-report.com/2018/08/05...-gallery-pt-i/

[Juntos]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Nonsense. I've heavily criticised the ACO, but I'll call the SRO BoP crap when it's crap. When you had Mercedes locking out almost all of the top 10, and being 2 laps faster than the rest of the field over a race distance, that's crap

Tell me when did it happened. I am curious now.

[Akrapovic]

2016. Mercedes qualified 1-2-3-4-5-6. After they were thrown to the back of the grid, no adjustment was made to the BoP. Those cars started the race with a 5 minute penalty, lost 2 laps in the opening hour, and still managed to finish on the lead lap. Without the penalty (which didn't give them any significant speed advantage), they'd have won the Spa 24 Hours comfortably by 2 laps and locked out the podium based on speed.

Call it on a case by case basis. SROs 2018 BoP is pretty good. But 2 years ago it was abysmal. So was ACOs, and so was VLNs.

[GregUK]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

2016. Mercedes qualified 1-2-3-4-5-6. After they were thrown to the back of the grid, no adjustment was made to the BoP. Those cars started the race with a 5 minute penalty, lost 2 laps in the opening hour, and still managed to finish on the lead lap. Without the penalty (which didn't give them any significant speed advantage), they'd have won the Spa 24 Hours comfortably by 2 laps and locked out the podium based on speed.

Call it on a case by case basis. SROs 2018 BoP is pretty good. But 2 years ago it was abysmal. So was ACOs, and so was VLNs.

In 2016 all the Mercs were required to restore the engine mapping that they should have been using throughout.

IIRC, they got lucky because there was a SC or FCY at the time they were taking their 5 min Stop/Go's.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by GregUK

In 2016 all the Mercs were required to restore the engine mapping that they should have been using throughout.

IIRC, they got lucky because there was a SC or FCY at the time they were taking their 5 min Stop/Go's.

Yes, but that's the point. They qualified 1-6 with the illegal mapping. However, once they reverted to the legal mapping, the car was still significantly faster than everything else in the field. Without the mapping, they'd have still been 1-2-3-4-5-6.

There was a FCY whilst the cars were taking their 5 min stop and go. This saved them from going a third lap down, but all of the cars did lose 2 laps. The AKKA ASP car recovered to the lead lap, whilst the others all finished 1-2 laps down. Without the penalty, it'd have been a Mercedes 1-2-3 lockout, laps ahead of the field, even with the legal mapping.

And this also happened over in VLN the same year. BMW gave it a go and messed up the BoP, and the ACO were busy milking the Ford cow too. Everyone had a terrible BoP in 2016.

[Mountain Man]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Yes, but that's the point. They qualified 1-6 with the illegal mapping. However, once they reverted to the legal mapping, the car was still significantly faster than everything else in the field. Without the mapping, they'd have still been 1-2-3-4-5-6.

There was a FCY whilst the cars were taking their 5 min stop and go. This saved them from going a third lap down, but all of the cars did lose 2 laps.

I don't think they did. I remember it causing a lot of moaning because they were supposed to lose 2 laps, but only lost 1 and a bit which due to safety cars in effect meant it was 1

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Mountain Man

I don't think they did. I remember it causing a lot of moaning because they were supposed to lose 2 laps, but only lost 1 and a bit which due to safety cars in effect meant it was 1

My recollection of it was the majority went 2 laps down, and 1 was recollected within the hour.

Either way, they were given a 5 minute penalty, which may have at best been a 4 minute penalty, and ended still the fastest cars and clawed back most of the time lost.

The point is - SRO (and ACO, and IMSA and VLN) have had some shocking BoPs over the years. Calling a BoP rubbish doesn't make you a fanboy of another series. It just makes that BoP rubbish. 2016 SRO BoP was terrible.

[Anyopenroad]

On the spectacle vs racing thing...

When I am at a race I take no notice of who is leading, or who is where in the race. I often don't know who has won until afterwards. I just enjoy the sights, the noise, taking photos, the setting: the spectacle.

When I get home I watch the race on YouTube, even the whole 24 hours, taking in every detail of drivers, positions, tactics and so on: the racing.

As a spectacle at the track the Spa 24 Hours is incredible. The TV come nowhere near doing justice to the Ardennes setting, to the climbs and drops and turns. The cars are wonderful and there's 60ish of them so the action is constant. I love every minute.

I am now 16 hours into my watching of the race (not in one chunk) and ... it's boring. The track looks far less interesting than when you are there. There's no tactics, no strategy. There's not much overtaking because the cars are all balanced. SRO don't seem to understand how to use FCYs. The SC after each FCY is outrageous.

The Nurburgring 24 is just as interesting to watch afterwards as it is a spectacle when you are there. Daytona, oddly, is more interesting on TV than when you are there. But Spa has to be enjoyed in person.

Just my £0.01!

[gert]

Originally Posted by gert

Would the accident with the 666 Lambo and the Parker Bentley have happened if the car's weren't bunched up like they were now? IIRC the accident happened not long after a previous FCY + SC

Originally Posted by GregUK

But if a butterfly in the Amazon rain forest had farted, the accident may have been prevented.....!

You may not agree with me on this, no problem. But it's not something I just came up with right now.
It's more or less the same remark I posted when I saw it happen
here: https://tentenths.com/forum/showpost...&postcount=367

[GregUK]

666 was fully off the track when it stopped. I don't think that the subsequent accident had any connection with the previous FCY