ALMS 2011 Discussion

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by Birddog07

No I'm just saying that P2 seems better for the budget privateers in the ALMS so the big European giants don't blow them out of the water if they visit or if the team goes to Europe.

Are you talking about the current P2 rules, or next years P2 rules? Next year the P2's will be scarcely faster than the current LMP-C.

If you are talking about next years P2, let me just say that I can't agree with you on any level, and such a thing wouldn't be good for the ALMS.

[picchiofan]

1 hour edited down tape delayed races on Versus next year replacing the coverage on speed according to Kjos.

Ouch.

[Cuttlefish]

Originally Posted by picchiofan

1 hour edited down tape delayed races on Versus next year replacing the coverage on speed according to Kjos.

Ouch.

As long as they stream all the races live, I'll be happier with this outcome. I can't stand all the stupid segments SPEED intertwines with the coverage. Dorsey Schroeder and Leigh Diffey are two of my least favorite commentators. Not to mention the outrageous number of commercial breaks.

[picchiofan]

Originally Posted by Cuttlefish

As long as they stream all the races live, I'll be happier with this outcome. I can't stand all the stupid segments SPEED intertwines with the coverage. Dorsey Schroeder and Leigh Diffey are two of my least favorite commentators. Not to mention the outrageous number of commercial breaks.

Eschewing coverage in HD on my 60 inch TV for a crummy webcam feed that is nicely referred to as "buggy" isn't really an ideal setup.

[Cuttlefish]

Originally Posted by picchiofan

Eschewing coverage in HD on my 60 inch TV for a crummy webcam feed that is nicely referred to as "buggy" isn't really an ideal setup.

Webcam feed? Have you even watched one of the ALMS streams? The same camera crew (Wheeler) that does the SPEED broadcasts does the streams.

I didn't have a single problem during the Mid-Ohio race. No buffering, no drops, just crisp, clear, moderate bitrate 16:9 with good looking h264 compression.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by Cuttlefish

Webcam feed? Have you even watched one of the ALMS streams? The same camera crew (Wheeler) that does the SPEED broadcasts does the streams.

I didn't have a single problem during the Mid-Ohio race. No buffering, no drops, just crisp, clear, moderate bitrate 16:9 with good looking h264 compression.

I would agree, but, reality does not enter into the picture for some though.





L.P.

[picchiofan]

Originally Posted by Cuttlefish

Webcam feed? Have you even watched one of the ALMS streams? The same camera crew (Wheeler) that does the SPEED broadcasts does the streams.

I didn't have a single problem during the Mid-Ohio race. No buffering, no drops, just crisp, clear, moderate bitrate 16:9 with good looking h264 compression.

Few inches on a computer screen, yea, it's a webcam feed.

This is the same technique that Champcar employed, ditching real network coverage and going to "kangaroo tv" for a lot of their race stuff. You see how well that worked.

I watched parts of the laguna feed, it was unimpressive and buggy. Didn't bother with Mid Ohio, there was racing on TV to watch.

[HORNDAWG]

Yeah, its amazing at how many people can get the feed from their micro-display-monitors to their TV, all the way up to the big boys in the 60" widescreen range!




L.P.

[Zurbert82]

Originally Posted by picchiofan

Few inches on a computer screen, yea, it's a webcam feed.

This is the same technique that Champcar employed, ditching real network coverage and going to "kangaroo tv" for a lot of their race stuff. You see how well that worked.

I watched parts of the laguna feed, it was unimpressive and buggy. Didn't bother with Mid Ohio, there was racing on TV to watch.

Laguna and Mid Ohio had great streaming quality. I dont know why you're downplaying this to be a 'webcam feed', unless your PC or ISP isn't capable of getting the most out of it.

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by picchiofan

Few inches on a computer screen, yea, it's a webcam feed.

This is the same technique that Champcar employed, ditching real network coverage and going to "kangaroo tv" for a lot of their race stuff. You see how well that worked.

I watched parts of the laguna feed, it was unimpressive and buggy. Didn't bother with Mid Ohio, there was racing on TV to watch.

It's pretty easy to run that feed through your TV. I'm a dumbass and I can manage that.

Say what you will about Vs, and they do need to get in more homes across the US, but they cover Indycar better than anyone has. Ever.

[picchiofan]

Originally Posted by JHamilton

I'm a dumbass and I can manage that.

I guess that could be the target market for 3 pro/am LMP cars and a bunch of spec class fillers. Who knows.

I guess I'm lazy, I like flipping a channel and watching something. Staring at a tiny streaming feed on a computer or hooking a laptop up to a TV is a PITA. Maybe I'm not one of those "fans" they talk about.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by Zurbert82

Laguna and Mid Ohio had great streaming quality. I dont know why you're downplaying this to be a 'webcam feed', unless your PC or ISP isn't capable of getting the most out of it.

Not only that, but the ability to get the race out live to the entire planet via the web increases exposure and I would guess viewership will go up among the fans of the sport. I would assume most of our friends across the pond quite enjoyed the race live on the web. Or am I wrong guys and gals?

Also if done correctly it may bring in some new fans if the 'Shows' are good. It also allows the ALMS to target the market that they wish, reduces the airtime cost and allows for more targeted selectioning of where it can be aired.
I am not sure it is the answer, but....


L.P.

[picchiofan]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

Not only that, but the ability to get the race out live to the entire planet via the web increases exposure and I would guess viewership will go up among the fans of the sport. I would assume most of our friends across the pond quite enjoyed the race live on the web. Or am I wrong guys and gals?

Also if done correctly it may bring in some new fans if the 'Shows' are good. It also allows the ALMS to target the market that they wish, reduces the airtime cost and allows for more targeted selectioning of where it can be aired.
I am not sure it is the answer, but....


L.P.

That's pretty much verbatim of what all the Champcar boards said. You see how well it worked.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by picchiofan

I guess that could be the target market for 3 pro/am LMP cars and a bunch of spec class fillers. Who knows.

I guess I'm lazy, I like flipping a channel and watching something. Staring at a tiny streaming feed on a computer or hooking a laptop up to a TV is a PITA. Maybe I'm not one of those "fans" they talk about.

Usually, by the content and tone of posts; If a fan at all!





L.P.

[Fogelhund]

It is no particular secret that certain people have, for many years, actively engaged in posting in a manner that is not intended to be of a benefit to the community, and in particular targeted at smearing a series and genre. Ask yourself why these people have done this consistantly for almost a decade? As long as this behaviour is tolerated, it is best that you not address such people, leaving their propaganda to rot on it's own.

Personally I have enjoyed the web streaming. The coverage is better than what Wheeler has provided on TV. Ideally, I would like to watch the ALMS, on the big screen in HD, with better production and commentating than has been done so in the past. It is somewhat strange, that even in the press room, they watch the TV feed, and turn the volume off in favour of John Hindaugh and crew, yet subject the public to the poorer broadcasting team that is utilized. Is this rocket science?

Keep in mind that the viewership for the streaming has been less than 10,000 people. (as far as I know). These aren't exactly numbers you sell to potential sponsors or manufacturers decideding where to spend their marketing budgets.

I have no inside information regarding a potential move to Versus, with permanent one hour tape delayed summaries. "If" such a move is being considered, I can't imagine the spin used to justify how this could be better than Speed, particularly coming from the perspective of a Canadian, where we don't get Versus in almost any Cable package.

[joeb]

And really if that Versus package comes through, why would it be 1 hour shows? It isn't like Versus has such important programs that room couldn't be made for a fully live broadcast.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

It is no particular secret that certain people have, for many years, actively engaged in posting in a manner that is not intended to be of a benefit to the community, and in particular targeted at smearing a series and genre. Ask yourself why these people have done this consistantly for almost a decade? As long as this behaviour is tolerated, it is best that you not address such people, leaving their propaganda to rot on it's own.

Personally I have enjoyed the web streaming. The coverage is better than what Wheeler has provided on TV. Ideally, I would like to watch the ALMS, on the big screen in HD, with better production and commentating than has been done so in the past. It is somewhat strange, that even in the press room, they watch the TV feed, and turn the volume off in favour of John Hindaugh and crew, yet subject the public to the poorer broadcasting team that is utilized. Is this rocket science?

Keep in mind that the viewership for the streaming has been less than 10,000 people. (as far as I know). These aren't exactly numbers you sell to potential sponsors or manufacturers decideding where to spend their marketing budgets.

I have no inside information regarding a potential move to Versus, with permanent one hour tape delayed summaries. "If" such a move is being considered, I can't imagine the spin used to justify how this could be better than Speed, particularly coming from the perspective of a Canadian, where we don't get Versus in almost any Cable package.

I would agree that where the 'shows' are aired is a vital part for any of the "ifs".




L.P.

[HORNDAWG]

Maybe they can put it in 3 places(1hr vs 3hr), like, Discovery, HDNet and VS, or something to that effect. Then they cover all of N. America and appeal to a broader advertising market.





L.P.

[TWK]

Originally Posted by joeb

And really if that Versus package comes through, why would it be 1 hour shows? It isn't like Versus has such important programs that room couldn't be made for a fully live broadcast.

It's not what they "have room for," it's what you want to pay for.

I'll be very surprised if Versus is willing to pay the series for its product at a rate that would cover production costs. Unless they are, the ALMS remains better off paying for time, retaining the rights, and selling ads.

The problem, of course, is that the price of an ad on Versus is significantly less that an ad on Speed, and just a fraction of the price of the same ad on CBS. Going a step further, what's the revenue potential for web video? Not much this side of zero.

All that said, a move to Versus and to "all edited" coverage remains a rumor, not yet fact.

It's important to bring such discussions into the "daylight," because fans do very much care about the accessiblity of their favorite sports - even sports car racing.

[JAG]

Outside of Le Mans itself I've always thought quality edited highlights (preferably in HD) and a live online stream is the best option for sportscar racing.

The BPR GT 1hr highlights from 15 YEARS AGO are still the benchmark and far superior to anyhting Eurosport or Motors TV have put together.

[fieldodreams79]

I personally hate watching anything tape delayed, unless it is absolutely necessary. I have had no issues and only positive things to say about the ALMS live streaming I have seen thus far.

And besides, I thought it was great having two lap tops burning, with Mid-Ohio and the Saturday afternoon Watkins Glen race going simultaneously; same thing on Sunday.

Originally Posted by picchiofan

I guess I'm lazy, I like flipping a channel and watching something. Staring at a tiny streaming feed on a computer or hooking a laptop up to a TV is a PITA.

Yeah, it's all pretty new age and hard to grasp...I long for TVs that are pieces of furniture and gigantic antennas bolted to side of houses, too.

Originally Posted by picchiofan

Maybe I'm not one of those "fans" they talk about.

I agree.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

Personally I have enjoyed the web streaming. The coverage is better than what Wheeler has provided on TV. Ideally, I would like to watch the ALMS, on the big screen in HD, with better production and commentating than has been done so in the past. It is somewhat strange, that even in the press room, they watch the TV feed, and turn the volume off in favour of John Hindaugh and crew, yet subject the public to the poorer broadcasting team that is utilized. Is this rocket science?

Keep in mind that the viewership for the streaming has been less than 10,000 people. (as far as I know). These aren't exactly numbers you sell to potential sponsors or manufacturers decideding where to spend their marketing budgets.

No it might not be big numbers, but I see it as layering tiers of coverage to different fan groups.

Live web streaming and cams for hardcore fans. 1 to 2 hour long highlights or compressed coverage on regular tv. And a brief few minutes of highlights to various news outlets or motorsports related programs around the world.

These days for me, no matter how much I like the series, I really can't devote hours to one race. Just can't do it. The shorter programs I like better.

And my preference is to be able to download the program and if they want to include advertising, great. I just like to watch it, when I want and not have to stream and that might be months later.

[dj4monie]

There are some serious developments coming in the next 6-8 months that will address some of this concern over watching streaming content on larger screens.

Hulu is quickly finding out that people want to watch it on larger screen, You Tube has YT Laid Back just for those with large screens and remotes. Google TV will largely mesh TV with Internet in a way that hasn't happen before. Boxee Box will address some of the same problems of programing you currently have to watch using a browser only (ALMS, FIA GT1/GT3, Super League Formula, etc). So I wouldn't give up on streaming content as a revenue source. You can do what You Tube and Hulu do which is embed a 15 second commercial before the streaming starts and its better than watching the buffering screen count from 0-100%.

Like it or not there are things afoot to meld the internet with traditional tv, you will have only one line coming into the house fairly soon. In fact with those with FIOS and U-verse Fiber To Home (like I do) already have this, though I don't have U-verse TV cause it sucks if your a Sports Fan.

There are ways to get the content you want and putting it online is by far the cheapest option for the ALMS and combining it with a solid linear TV package on Speed or Versus or whatever.

Speaking of Versus, why not move there? If you let everybody know it was there, it would get the same numbers anyway (.4-.6) but since ALMS events are often Indy Car events too, you don't have the same cost structure. I think there's room for grow as well. Speed is already planning on moving most of its non-NASCAR content onto its online channel (Speed 2) so what difference would it make? As long as you can pick up your remote and tune too it, nobody cares where or how you got it.

I also think Versus could offer us some more involvement than Speed currently does. Speed is the "Not Quite" the NASCAR Channel and if was still run by the original Speedvision management, CCWS or Indy Car now would be on Speed its natural home, but because Indy Car didn't want to play second fiddle to NASCAR on a Cable Network they seek their own partner, Versus.

Remember Indy Car has the big Indy 500 carrot though the race itself is carried by ABC.

Why not show Wheels Down Testing and the week run up to Sebring the same way Fox and Speed handle the run up to the Daytona 500?

I'm sure Versus would love to have a few million more eyeballs on its network, we already tune in for the Indy Car races, why not keep us there?

[dj4monie]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

No it might not be big numbers, but I see it as layering tiers of coverage to different fan groups.

Live web streaming and cams for hardcore fans. 1 to 2 hour long highlights or compressed coverage on regular tv. And a brief few minutes of highlights to various news outlets or motorsports related programs around the world.

These days for me, no matter how much I like the series, I really can't devote hours to one race. Just can't do it. The shorter programs I like better.

And my preference is to be able to download the program and if they want to include advertising, great. I just like to watch it, when I want and not have to stream and that might be months later.

I fully agree, ALMS should be embracing torrent-ing the races. This is something World Challenge is doing it, making the download of the same coverage available after the race is shown on Versus, but to their credit Todocast is keeping the races on its servers, you can watch the Laguna Seca 6 hours, again, again and again.

If you REALLY knew what you were doing you can download it and keep it. A certain web site has captures of the FIA GT1 races on its servers from the web site stream, not the Bloomberg or ESPN feed.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by fieldodreams79

Yeah, it's all pretty new age and hard to grasp...I long for TVs that are pieces of furniture and gigantic antennas bolted to side of houses, too.

Not as hard to grasp as, if you do not like to pay the monthly fee, that goes only up, you will not be watching anything on either screen.

Kind of like the carrot and the donkey.

New age ain't so grand really.