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Old 23 Apr 2018, 06:34 (Ref:3816974)   #101
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Is his agreement with GM or Holden?

If its just with Holden and as is mooted that Holden is less than 1% of GM's worldwide revenue then I think Holden maybe on shaky ground in the future.

GM may well adopt the Ford model for raising their profile. The Camaro could well be the vehicle to invoke the Ford GM battle. But then again GM has stated its not interested in right hand drive cars in the foreseable future
You are drawing a long bow with this argument.

If the Holden name was dropped and Camaro's are brought into the series instead, and all this happens during the length of the current Triple 8 contract with General Motors Holden, then I would predict you would see Triple 8 doing the same thing with a Camaro that they are with the ZB Commodore now.
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Old 23 Apr 2018, 23:02 (Ref:3817085)   #102
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You are drawing a long bow with this argument.

If the Holden name was dropped and Camaro's are brought into the series instead, and all this happens during the length of the current Triple 8 contract with General Motors Holden, then I would predict you would see Triple 8 doing the same thing with a Camaro that they are with the ZB Commodore now.
I'm not arguing...I'm just suggesting that GM Australia my pull out altogether if the Holden brand isnt carrying it weight. Or they may change tact and go down the Ford path.

Not many people buy the family sedan anymore...its kinda either and SUVa small car or a sporty vehicle.

IMO the Commodore is becoming irrelevant and I thenk GM may come around to that way of thinking to....sooner or later
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Old 23 Apr 2018, 23:45 (Ref:3817087)   #103
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so if Camaro comes, do we need to look at a new cage. the current one is not ideal for a coupe and a bit of work could fix this
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Old 24 Apr 2018, 00:43 (Ref:3817094)   #104
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so if Camaro comes, do we need to look at a new cage. the current one is not ideal for a coupe and a bit of work could fix this
The current Camaro is slightly wider and taller than a Supercar - but not by much.

Width
Supercar: 188cm
Camaro: 190cm

Height
Supercar: 122cm
Camaro: 135cm

The Camaro IS a bit shorter, however.

Wheelbase
Supercar: 282cm
Camaro: 281cm

Overall length
Supercar: 489cm
Camaro: 478cm

The differences are so small that it would probably take less work to adapt the Camaro body than the Mustang - overall length is the biggest issue, but with the wheelbase being such a minute difference the majority of it is in the front and rear overhang which shouldn't be TOO difficult, but as you can see it has the OPPOSITE problem to address from the Mustang.
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Old 24 Apr 2018, 02:07 (Ref:3817099)   #105
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POLL: Should Holden bring the Camaro into Supercars?

Early numbers are pretty clear
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Old 24 Apr 2018, 02:09 (Ref:3817100)   #106
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The current Camaro is slightly wider and taller than a Supercar - but not by much.


The differences are so small that it would probably take less work to adapt the Camaro body than the Mustang - overall length is the biggest issue, but with the wheelbase being such a minute difference the majority of it is in the front and rear overhang which shouldn't be TOO difficult, but as you can see it has the OPPOSITE problem to address from the Mustang.
Cheers, i had assumed looking at the photos it would have the same issue around the roofline as the mustang would ahve around the C Pillar
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Old 24 Apr 2018, 10:24 (Ref:3817146)   #107
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That front bumper and bonnet shape on the Camaro is very unfriendly to aero though, will be interested to see how they would have to manipulate the body to achieve parity with the other makes.
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Old 24 Apr 2018, 10:35 (Ref:3817148)   #108
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For whatever reason I cannot see the poll nor it's results. I'm assuming it's heavily in favor of the Camaro?

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Cheers, i had assumed looking at the photos it would have the same issue around the roofline as the mustang would ahve around the C Pillar
Yeah, the new Camaros are a LOT bigger than people think. Not helping this matter is the fact that the most well-known racing incarnations(TA2 and NASCAR) are both a bit bigger still, and people know this, reinforcing the image that the road car is tiny to anyone that hasn't gotten really close. This inaccurate image has bled over to car guys as well, and even we sometimes forget that the Camaro is MASSIVE for what it's supposed to be.

I even had to doublecheck those numbers - my brain recalled that the Camaro is bigger than the Mustang, but it still misrecalled HOW much bigger. I was thinking it'd need fewer changes due to being closer, but I didn't figure it would need to SHRINK to fit properly!
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Old 24 Apr 2018, 10:56 (Ref:3817149)   #109
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For whatever reason I cannot see the poll nor it's results. I'm assuming it's heavily in favor of the Camaro?



Yeah, the new Camaros are a LOT bigger than people think. Not helping this matter is the fact that the most well-known racing incarnations(TA2 and NASCAR) are both a bit bigger still, and people know this, reinforcing the image that the road car is tiny to anyone that hasn't gotten really close. This inaccurate image has bled over to car guys as well, and even we sometimes forget that the Camaro is MASSIVE for what it's supposed to be.

I even had to doublecheck those numbers - my brain recalled that the Camaro is bigger than the Mustang, but it still misrecalled HOW much bigger. I was thinking it'd need fewer changes due to being closer, but I didn't figure it would need to SHRINK to fit properly!

Im guessing it must be geo-blocked to Australia

71% in favour, after just a couple days, but its the amount of responses that is impressive, more than double the votes of other recent polls. to me that sugegst a a passion

Havent seen a camaro in Australia, where as there are quite a few mustangs around town.
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Old 24 Apr 2018, 11:42 (Ref:3817156)   #110
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Havent seen a camaro in Australia, where as there are quite a few mustangs around town.
Only available in LHD curtails its legal usage in most states in Australia. The cost of converting and meeting local compliance would be prohibitive for commercial onward sales. The last I heard was GM have no intentions of offering right hand drive variations. It is not just a matter of changing a steering rack, it involves different firewall, dashboard likely relocation of peripheral engine parts, pedal box plus much more.

For these reasons alone I cant see the financial viability in Holden offering a Camaro for sale in Aus. Preumably the branding might cause issues as well. Chevrolet v Holden. It is more than just changing a badge with international marketing strategies and plans for Holden let alone Chev.
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Old 24 Apr 2018, 11:57 (Ref:3817158)   #111
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Only available in LHD curtails its legal usage in most states in Australia. The cost of converting and meeting local compliance would be prohibitive for commercial onward sales. The last I heard was GM have no intentions of offering right hand drive variations. It is not just a matter of changing a steering rack, it involves different firewall, dashboard likely relocation of peripheral engine parts, pedal box plus much more.

For these reasons alone I cant see the financial viability in Holden offering a Camaro for sale in Aus. Preumably the branding might cause issues as well. Chevrolet v Holden. It is more than just changing a badge with international marketing strategies and plans for Holden let alone Chev.
The next Camaro has been reported as being designed for both left & right hand drive architecture. Due out in 2020 or 2021. Till then it'll be local conversions and the cost associated with them.
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Old 24 Apr 2018, 20:58 (Ref:3817244)   #112
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*If* WAU were able to develop a Camaro to be on track within 18 months,
Erebus created the Mercedes within 5 months or less, IIRC?

I am sure WAU could achieve a similar time frame.
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Old 24 Apr 2018, 21:03 (Ref:3817245)   #113
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Great to see it back. I'm not a fan of the Mustang at all, so this will give me a true rival to hate again.
Why not? Because of too many V6 convertible rental car versions in Hawaii? Because the standard suspension is too soft (remedied by going for the not for Australia Shelby GT350 model)?

Because it's too heavy? People have doubted me, but I measured the Mustang exhaust material as 1.9mm thick, vs 1.3mm thick for a Commodore exhaust and 0.9mm thick for a Honda exhaust. If that is indicative of the way Ford (over)engineered the whole car, it is little surprise to me that the S550 Mustang came in way over the weight target Ford set!
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Old 24 Apr 2018, 21:05 (Ref:3817246)   #114
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Would love to see the series become 2 door, "sports car" focused.
Yes, as long as they have four seats, as the ATCC has always required.
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Old 25 Apr 2018, 07:44 (Ref:3817282)   #115
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Gaz170 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridGaz170 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridGaz170 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Getting back to the Mustang, would you expect teams like 23Red or MSR to get completely new cars, or re-shell their existing Falcons?
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Old 25 Apr 2018, 08:52 (Ref:3817292)   #116
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Depends what changes are needed to the chassis.

As some teams found with the ZB, it was easier to build a new chassis, than to modify the existing one.

And by changes, it was inner quarter skins (OEM), bracketry, and the need for a completely different rear bulkhead.
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Old 25 Apr 2018, 20:50 (Ref:3817411)   #117
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Only available in LHD curtails its legal usage in most states in Australia. The cost of converting and meeting local compliance would be prohibitive for commercial onward sales.
Regardless Camaros are available in Australia. Be they from Shogun conversions, HSV or similar Chevrolet importers.

http://www.shogunconversions.com.au/camaro-conversion/
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Old 25 Apr 2018, 21:12 (Ref:3817417)   #118
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Regardless Camaros are available in Australia. Be they from Shogun conversions, HSV or similar Chevrolet importers.

http://www.shogunconversions.com.au/camaro-conversion/
Apparently the all up cost of the base car and conversion is A$150,000. Not cheap.
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Getting the ZL1 to Australia and then converting it to right-hand drive is a rather expensive process. After paying the vehicle’s base price of $63,435 with a six-speed manual or $65,830 with a 10-speed auto, a buyer has to consider the hefty cost of shipping and local taxes. Swapping the steering wheel over is another $44,000 Australian dollars. The total cost for driving the hotrod Camaro in Oz is around $150,000 AUD.
https://www.motor1.com/news/140666/c...hd-conversion/
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Old 25 Apr 2018, 21:59 (Ref:3817422)   #119
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Ford To Stop Selling Passenger Cars In North America From 2019

Explains Mustang for Supercar then...
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Old 25 Apr 2018, 22:59 (Ref:3817426)   #120
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Apparently the all up cost of the base car and conversion is A$150,000. Not cheap.

https://www.motor1.com/news/140666/c...hd-conversion/
That's for the ZL1, not the basic car. Though it would still be pricey, you're looking at a minimum of 53K Australian less for a basic model(the difference in cost between a base model and a ZL1). Possibly more, if getting a base model means less labor cost for the conversion and/or lower import tax - I don't know how the Australian import taxes work, so I've no idea if there'd be a difference there, but since the ZL1 and base Camaros have different amounts of crap in their front I could see the labor cost being cheaper.

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Ford To Stop Selling Passenger Cars In North America From 2019

Explains Mustang for Supercar then...
And NASCAR Cup.
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Old 26 Apr 2018, 04:34 (Ref:3817443)   #121
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More good news for Ford:

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/busi...26-p4zbrc.html
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Old 26 Apr 2018, 06:12 (Ref:3817448)   #122
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About time manufacturers were made accountable for their known to them crap design flaws and bullshit 'you broke it /its the way you drive so no warranty' type replies.
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Old 26 Apr 2018, 06:51 (Ref:3817451)   #123
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About time manufacturers were made accountable for their known to them crap design flaws and bullshit 'you broke it /its the way you drive so no warranty' type replies.
Can I have my money back on my Golf R32 please?
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Old 26 Apr 2018, 07:53 (Ref:3817458)   #124
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Can I have my money back on my Golf R32 please?
Nein, sorry mein mate, ist da vay you drive it.
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Old 26 Apr 2018, 22:51 (Ref:3817580)   #125
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Can someone tell me the technical differences between the supercars and GT4.

They both have standard type chassis between cars with different bodies....what else is there?
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