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Old 22 Feb 2013, 02:36 (Ref:3208905)   #76
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In my view, comparing Adelaide and Surfers makes as much sense as comparing Monaco and Singapore - they're totally different, with different precincts, environments, locations, history and feel.

Adelaide is now well settled but Surfers clearly is trying to find its feet again. Personally, I don't think that the international contribution (the way it's been done in the last couple of years) added anything positive to the event or was anything other than a gimmick that had everyone pretty much scratching their heads and wondering why.

I think that the new endurance cup approach makes a lot of sense - bring internationals in as genuine co-drivers across a number of rounds, seems much more "real" to me.

Still leaves the Surfers event needed a giddy-up though. It has of course been in this situation before - it was struggling MASSIVELY in the early years & was rescued by the vision and ideas of one T. Cochrane. Seems to me that right now, Surfers needs a fresh approach and most likely someone who can come in, bring some fresh ideas and turn it around. No reason why it can't be as strong as Adelaide but if international categories aren't going to be part of it, they need to work out what it's going to be to give it a "true" identity.
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Old 22 Feb 2013, 03:30 (Ref:3208915)   #77
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Still leaves the Surfers event needed a giddy-up though.
Or if it even continues?
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Old 22 Feb 2013, 03:50 (Ref:3208917)   #78
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Or if it even continues?
Yeah - up till now it's been a good investment for the govt - they see a return to the economy that's much greater than their expenditure.

But that's the other option isn't it - give it a giddy up or call time on the event.

Will be interesting to see how it works this year without the internationals being used as a bit of a gimmick.
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Old 22 Feb 2013, 03:55 (Ref:3208919)   #79
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Or if it even continues?
It saddens me that you get so excited about a motor racing event with over 20 years of history stopping.
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Old 22 Feb 2013, 05:54 (Ref:3208935)   #80
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Will be interesting to see how it works this year without the internationals being used as a bit of a gimmick.
Will be interesting to see which way the teams go with driver selections.

I cant see how the move to the endurance cup though will increase exposure and interest of the event overseas which is one of the goals of the event.

Pecky - it is sad however if the event isnt achieving what it was set out to do - unfortunate as it is why should it continue?
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Old 22 Feb 2013, 05:57 (Ref:3208937)   #81
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It saddens me that you get so excited about a motor racing event with over 20 years of history stopping.
The problem is that the history context really finished with the collapse of Champ Car and the failiure of the Indy series to deliver.
The V8s were only ever a support act, and the past few years have shown that for the Coast they can't deliver the same impact in the markets the original was designed to penetrate.
I was managing the Southport Chamber of Commerce back when it all started. Believe me it was never aimed at the domestic market. The prime aim was to get good pictures of the Coast as a modern high end resort on international TV. Interestingly part of the circuit design brief for Weathered Howe was to ensure that the camera angles which covered the cars presented the Coast as just that. It was a more important priority than the race itself.
The Development business (the white shoe brigade) used their pull to get Government Finance and local business climbed aboard to get a major event which slotted into a quiet tourism season. All the years of Champ Car achieved that sort of result in terms of international exposure. Win Win Win. Locals were (mostly) happy because it brought in big spenders and got the Coast great TV in the US, and particularly Asia. The Govt. was happy because the developers thanked them for the subsidy by making contributions to party funds (both partys) and the fans loved seeing something different racing which they couldn't see anywhere else in Oz.
The demise of Champ Car, the IRL failiure, the A1GP farce and then the gutting of circuit to suit what is just a local event repeated in other parts of Oz, there is no 20 year tradition left.
Sorry, it has gone, and the only thing that you will see on parts of the circuit will be the trams. No International exposure means no subsidy, no support from local business and thus no racing.
Now will everyone get onside and see if we can encourage the Norwell project as a replacement for racing in this part of the world. That would be a wat to revive the important tradition that died with the SPIR.
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Old 22 Feb 2013, 06:01 (Ref:3208938)   #82
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peckstar has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
It set out what it has achieved to do. Promote motorsport,

Did it set out what the government set out for it, we dont know as the government changed and we dont know its goals. It may have set have been achieving the previus governments goals. But the new government seems to have a goal of cutting cost. This new format may very well achieve that goal.

I repeat
It saddens me that you get so excited about a motor racing event with over 20 years of history stopping.
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Old 22 Feb 2013, 18:40 (Ref:3209195)   #83
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The problem is that the history context really finished with the collapse of Champ Car and the failiure of the Indy series to deliver.
The V8s were only ever a support act, and the past few years have shown that for the Coast they can't deliver the same impact in the markets the original was designed to penetrate.
I was managing the Southport Chamber of Commerce back when it all started. Believe me it was never aimed at the domestic market. The prime aim was to get good pictures of the Coast as a modern high end resort on international TV. Interestingly part of the circuit design brief for Weathered Howe was to ensure that the camera angles which covered the cars presented the Coast as just that. It was a more important priority than the race itself.
The Development business (the white shoe brigade) used their pull to get Government Finance and local business climbed aboard to get a major event which slotted into a quiet tourism season. All the years of Champ Car achieved that sort of result in terms of international exposure. Win Win Win. Locals were (mostly) happy because it brought in big spenders and got the Coast great TV in the US, and particularly Asia. The Govt. was happy because the developers thanked them for the subsidy by making contributions to party funds (both partys) and the fans loved seeing something different racing which they couldn't see anywhere else in Oz.
The demise of Champ Car, the IRL failiure, the A1GP farce and then the gutting of circuit to suit what is just a local event repeated in other parts of Oz, there is no 20 year tradition left.
Sorry, it has gone, and the only thing that you will see on parts of the circuit will be the trams. No International exposure means no subsidy, no support from local business and thus no racing.
Now will everyone get onside and see if we can encourage the Norwell project as a replacement for racing in this part of the world. That would be a way to revive the important tradition that died with the SPIR.
OT,

I was fortunate enough to be at the first ever event, and we, as a team, competed at two of those events. I agree with you that they were funded by the government to promote the Gold Coast Internationally, and if you watch the first years footage, you can see just how much airtime went into romanticising the Gold Coast as a destination.

I must admit I have not heard of the Norwell project, is this a Morris family proposal?
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Old 22 Feb 2013, 22:03 (Ref:3209326)   #84
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It set out what it has achieved to do. Promote motorsport,

Did it set out what the government set out for it, we dont know as the government changed and we dont know its goals. It may have set have been achieving the previus governments goals. But the new government seems to have a goal of cutting cost. This new format may very well achieve that goal.

I repeat
It saddens me that you get so excited about a motor racing event with over 20 years of history stopping.
Promote Motorsport? Sadly no.

Promote the Gold Coast? - absolutely.

I have never heard a politician claiming the money spent on such events is for the promotion of motorsport.

It is for the promotion of the local region using motorsport as a tool to attact tourists to the region.

It really does not matter what the event is as long as it attracts the money.

Luckily for us, governments have seen motosport as being ably to acheive this although there are now questions being asked if the money spent is money well spent. This applies to both the AGP and the Surfers event.

If the Queensland goverments objective is to promote the event to local tourists then V8 Supercars can deliver, but if it is to attract overseas visitors then V8 Supercars can't deliver in they way that CART did in the Nineties.

I too would be said to see the event go, but those paying for it must get the return they are seeking.
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Old 24 Feb 2013, 05:30 (Ref:3209850)   #85
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Regarding the local economy- a couple of weeks before the event last year I tried to book accommodation through the usual avenues such as Wotif, and there wasn't exactly a whole lot available north of Burleigh... unless you wanted something super top end. Don't forget that those visitors pay for their food, transport, entertainment and extras for the weekend, it all adds up.
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Old 24 Feb 2013, 09:47 (Ref:3209909)   #86
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GCCC had a closed door council meeting to discuss whether the race would be supported beyond this year and although there has been nothing released in the press as yet, one of the local shopkeepers who is on the council has made no secret of the fact that the vote was 100% against the event.
The overinflated attendance figures compared to the actual bums on seats did not match up to the trouble they have had to clean up with the party theme afterwards and all the young drunks who were never on the coast for the motor racing in the first place.
Add in the rapid rail system and it is finished.
I am still interested to see how they will fit the rapid rail tracks and the racetrack all into the narrow bit of land from the first chicane to the Red Rooster hairpin.
He did add however, that should the I-Mett project get the green light from the Newman Govt they will throw their weight behind that.
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Old 25 Feb 2013, 14:48 (Ref:3210510)   #87
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The overinflated attendance figures compared to the actual bums on seats did not match up to the trouble they have had to clean up with the party theme afterwards and all the young drunks who were never on the coast for the motor racing in the first place.
Doesn't seem to stop the schoolies shenanigans every year though!

It does seem that motorsport in Australia is being hit with a lot of negative sentiment from the general media.... F1 probably won't survive beyond the current contract... GC gone, SOP gone, Townsville?, Bathurst/Adelaide are the only non-permanent race tracks with a future!?!?!
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Old 26 Feb 2013, 09:48 (Ref:3211059)   #88
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It does seem that motorsport in Australia is being hit with a lot of negative sentiment from the general media.... F1 probably won't survive beyond the current contract...
What makes you say that?

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GC gone,
Yeah, but let's face it. That's a hashed up Adelaide. It's not much of an event anyway. Since they couldn't find a suitable replacement, it should've died when the Indycars lost their mojo. If the event didn't exist, there wouldn't be any negative publicity.

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SOP gone,
POS event/race anyway. V8SC bit off more than they could chew with their ambitions with this one.

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Townsville?,
What negative publicity does this get? For some reason, this one doesn't offend me.

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Bathurst/Adelaide are the only non-permanent race tracks with a future!?!?!
Is it really a big deal?
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Old 26 Feb 2013, 14:55 (Ref:3211183)   #89
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Doesn't seem to stop the schoolies shenanigans every year though!

It does seem that motorsport in Australia is being hit with a lot of negative sentiment from the general media.... F1 probably won't survive beyond the current contract... GC gone, SOP gone, Townsville?, Bathurst/Adelaide are the only non-permanent race tracks with a future!?!?!

I doubt f1 will leave Melbourne any time yet.
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Old 26 Feb 2013, 20:46 (Ref:3211328)   #90
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OT,

I must admit I have not heard of the Norwell project, is this a Morris family proposal?
Sorry I didn't get back to you earlier Mark.
The Norwell project is known as IMETT and is a proposal for an integrated motor sport complex on land in the Norwell area. Google IMETT race circuit.
It is a proposal by a group who own, or have options on a significant area of cane land and other land in that area. Ideally situated at presesnt reasonably remote from existing housing development, handy to the M1 highway and the rail, and of course half way between Brisbane and the Gold Coast.
The snags at present are the objections of the usual groups who may want to build houses in the area, and more particularly the Rocky Point Mill and some other cane growers who think that the loss of cane land from production may affect the viability of the mill. Thus the Govt planning approval process is needed.
Don't know if the Morris Group is involved but the financial backing in general seems pretty sound. And the business model looks a darned sight better for the Coast than spending money on a cruise ship terminal as espoused by our current mayor.
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Old 26 Feb 2013, 21:05 (Ref:3211336)   #91
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The Norwell project is known as IMETT and is a proposal for an integrated motor sport complex on land in the Norwell area.
The I-METT proposal came to light in 2007 when there was an attempt to tie the construction of facility in Norwell with an Australian WRC event. That proposal ended up going nowhere (and the WRC moved south to NSW).

Perhaps it was GFC, but it would be nice to know why this project has been on ice since then.
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Old 27 Feb 2013, 01:15 (Ref:3211431)   #92
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The I-METT proposal came to light in 2007 when there was an attempt to tie the construction of facility in Norwell with an Australian WRC event. That proposal ended up going nowhere (and the WRC moved south to NSW).

Perhaps it was GFC, but it would be nice to know why this project has been on ice since then.
I think the costs they were proposing were rather steep. I can't remember but I seem to recall hundreds of millions of dollars as being the stated cost. People say you can always bring in an F1 race, but F1 races don't make any money.
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Old 27 Feb 2013, 01:47 (Ref:3211438)   #93
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I think the costs they were proposing were rather steep. I can't remember but I seem to recall hundreds of millions of dollars as being the stated cost. People say you can always bring in an F1 race, but F1 races don't make any money.
Don't have any inside info but to my knowledge F1 has never been part of the business model.
F1 standard track has been quoted because that is what the politicians and media want to hear.
The WRC thing as I recall was a completely different scenario and only involved basing the event at Norwell with the "stadium" stages and using the Gold Coast Hinterland for the actual event. Was always pie in the sky as the WRC was contracted to NSW events and then run out of Tweed Heads so when the NIMBYs fouled that up the transfer was always going to be elsewhere in NSW.
The idea seems long on circuit use for drive and track days, testing, club events etc with two or three major events per year. While the Surfers street circuit exists the major event opportunity is probably pretty poor.
The budget figures I have seen Mountainstar are not in the league you are talking about, but are pretty high because of the location/value factor of the land. Like all Motor Sport the problem is being close to markets but far enough away from NIMBYs. And while things often start out that way it is amazing how quickly suburbia can close in. We have a strong lobby going on here at present trying to stop ILS being installed at what is Australias 5th busiest airport because it could increase noise levels in some high end real estate areas. Doesn't seem to gel with some of the tiny minds that without operations at the airport the bulk of our tourism dies.
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Old 27 Feb 2013, 09:28 (Ref:3211562)   #94
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Don't have any inside info but to my knowledge F1 has never been part of the business model.
F1 standard track has been quoted because that is what the politicians and media want to hear.
The WRC thing as I recall was a completely different scenario and only involved basing the event at Norwell with the "stadium" stages and using the Gold Coast Hinterland for the actual event. Was always pie in the sky as the WRC was contracted to NSW events and then run out of Tweed Heads so when the NIMBYs fouled that up the transfer was always going to be elsewhere in NSW.
The idea seems long on circuit use for drive and track days, testing, club events etc with two or three major events per year. While the Surfers street circuit exists the major event opportunity is probably pretty poor.
The budget figures I have seen Mountainstar are not in the league you are talking about, but are pretty high because of the location/value factor of the land. Like all Motor Sport the problem is being close to markets but far enough away from NIMBYs. And while things often start out that way it is amazing how quickly suburbia can close in. We have a strong lobby going on here at present trying to stop ILS being installed at what is Australias 5th busiest airport because it could increase noise levels in some high end real estate areas. Doesn't seem to gel with some of the tiny minds that without operations at the airport the bulk of our tourism dies.
iMETT and WRC was before WRC was moved to NSW. This project not getting off the ground was why the WRC was picked up by NSW Govt.

That's right, this project was last on the radar THAT long ago!!
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Old 27 Feb 2013, 14:15 (Ref:3211680)   #95
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GCCC had a closed door council meeting to discuss whether the race would be supported beyond this year and although there has been nothing released in the press as yet, one of the local shopkeepers who is on the council has made no secret of the fact that the vote was 100% against the event.
The overinflated attendance figures compared to the actual bums on seats did not match up to the trouble they have had to clean up with the party theme afterwards and all the young drunks who were never on the coast for the motor racing in the first place.
Add in the rapid rail system and it is finished.
I am still interested to see how they will fit the rapid rail tracks and the racetrack all into the narrow bit of land from the first chicane to the Red Rooster hairpin.
He did add however, that should the I-Mett project get the green light from the Newman Govt they will throw their weight behind that.

GOLD COAST CITY COUNCIL
secret meeting behind closed doors ???

whatever happened to "TRANSPERACY" ?
open honest dealings & decisions concerning the
voters , ratepayers , general public , etc ??
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Old 27 Feb 2013, 22:36 (Ref:3211889)   #96
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F1 races don't make any money.
Ooh, they certainly do. Admittedly, only if your name is Ecclestone.
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Old 28 Feb 2013, 10:51 (Ref:3212194)   #97
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GOLD COAST CITY COUNCIL
secret meeting behind closed doors ???

whatever happened to "TRANSPERACY" ?
open honest dealings & decisions concerning the
voters , ratepayers , general public , etc ??
Far more transparent than usual these days.
The Mayor and CEO invited a few of the Councillors to sit in as well I hear!
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Old 28 Feb 2013, 12:47 (Ref:3212245)   #98
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Far more transparent than usual these days.
The Mayor and CEO invited a few of the Councillors to sit in as well I hear!
lmao. Very true sadly . lol
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