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Old 12 Dec 2019, 09:58 (Ref:3946291)   #1831
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Originally Posted by wnut View Post
When did agreement on a rule change go from unanimous to 70%.
I think the different groups or bodies are being mixed up here.

As far as I can tell:

The Concorde agreement sets out the terms and conditions of teams competing. This is the body that requires 100% agreement before a change is made.

The 70% figure comes from the F1 Commission. Details of how this works can be found here.

An article relating to the new governance structure(s) can be found here.
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Old 13 Dec 2019, 11:18 (Ref:3946498)   #1832
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I think it's wrong for Pirelli to bring in something new at this time. They should wait for 2021
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Old 13 Dec 2019, 13:45 (Ref:3946530)   #1833
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Originally Posted by S griffin View Post
I think it's wrong for Pirelli to bring in something new at this time. They should wait for 2021
I can't remember the back story, but I assume that given the complaints about the tires, that FOM and the teams asked them to make improvements. They probably said they could do something for 2020. Then there is a separate topic of new 2021 regulations (and I think the 18" wheel). I wonder if the left and right hands were not really in sync on this. That why bring out a new compound for one year? Maybe the thought is that this could be an improvement going into 2021 and that the new compound could carry over.

I suspect in the end, the teams are focusing on 2021 cars and development toward the new rules. Given resource restrictions that kick in, it's best to do as much development pre-cost cap as you can. So new compounds in 2020 would require teams to learn new tires for 2020 and the characteristics of those would change yet again as they go to lower sidewalls.

(Too late to make my comments short), but in the end, just wait until 2021 when the have all new tires. Don't spend extra money for 2020. And who knows maybe the tires were actually better (or not bad), but just different enough that teams said "no" to allow for resources to be devoted elsewhere.

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Old 13 Dec 2019, 15:00 (Ref:3946546)   #1834
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...Given resource restrictions that kick in, it's best to do as much development pre-cost cap as you can...
indeed!
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Old 13 Dec 2019, 23:36 (Ref:3946633)   #1835
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Originally Posted by crmalcolm View Post
I think the different groups or bodies are being mixed up here.

As far as I can tell:

The Concorde agreement sets out the terms and conditions of teams competing. This is the body that requires 100% agreement before a change is made.

The 70% figure comes from the F1 Commission. Details of how this works can be found here.

An article relating to the new governance structure(s) can be found here.
Thank you crmalcolm for the excellent articles.

Must admit Complicated structure!
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Old 16 Dec 2019, 11:52 (Ref:3946962)   #1836
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Originally Posted by S griffin View Post
I think it's wrong for Pirelli to bring in something new at this time. They should wait for 2021
they've played an absolute blinder.

teams - we aren't happy
pirelli - ok try this
teams - NOPE
pirelli - cool, keep the original then.
teams - awesome!

thus saving themselves a lot of money and arseache.

people can bang on all they want about a tyre war, but there's only two companies in the world that could even afford to tender for the f1 contract and neither of them would be interested in seeing costs spiral.
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Old 17 Dec 2019, 21:18 (Ref:3947257)   #1837
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Think it was wrong to continue past 2021 with Pirelli,

if you don't want a tire war at least have someone who can create tires we can race on.
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Old 17 Dec 2019, 23:41 (Ref:3947265)   #1838
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but nobody else actually wants to produce the f1 tyres, that's the point. hankook are the only ones making an effort but reports from teams in their existing series suggest tech support is pretty lousy.
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Old 18 Dec 2019, 01:55 (Ref:3947274)   #1839
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Think it was wrong to continue past 2021 with Pirelli,

if you don't want a tire war at least have someone who can create tires we can race on.
The promoters and management bodies tell Pirelli what they want in the way of tyres so the dissatisfaction with tyres is best directed at them and NOT Pirelli. All Pirelli are doing is filling their contractural requirements. Why do fans keep banging on about it is Pirelli's fault? Personally I want to see a tyre war, get all the big names back in and let's see some unpredictability happening because that is what will happen, would that be a bad thing?
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Old 19 Dec 2019, 10:44 (Ref:3947520)   #1840
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Originally Posted by Casper View Post
The promoters and management bodies tell Pirelli what they want in the way of tyres so the dissatisfaction with tyres is best directed at them and NOT Pirelli. All Pirelli are doing is filling their contractural requirements. Why do fans keep banging on about it is Pirelli's fault? Personally I want to see a tyre war, get all the big names back in and let's see some unpredictability happening because that is what will happen, would that be a bad thing?

My standpoint is that if Pirelli are happy to produce this level of product on the international stage then what would they be prepared to dish up to the consumer. Formerly I have used Pirelli tyres, lately not so much, and as a rule I try and support brands that support motor racing. They put something into a sport that I enjoy and try and support them as a result.
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Old 19 Dec 2019, 11:16 (Ref:3947526)   #1841
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Originally Posted by wnut View Post
My standpoint is that if Pirelli are happy to produce this level of product on the international stage then what would they be prepared to dish up to the consumer. Formerly I have used Pirelli tyres, lately not so much, and as a rule I try and support brands that support motor racing. They put something into a sport that I enjoy and try and support them as a result.
then i urge you to look at their gt work, particularly in the national series. the sheer number of different sizes, compounds to suit each car... it's really interesting.

fwiw, market research suggests that f1 has done wonders for their profile. that's pretty much the main reason they're still involved - it's expensive but far better for advertising than anything else they're involved with.

disclaimer: i run goodyears on my car
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Old 19 Dec 2019, 13:29 (Ref:3947554)   #1842
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I have never used Pirelli tyres on my road car preferring Michelin for over 50 years of driving but I get why Pirelli tyres are what they are in F1.
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Old 22 Dec 2019, 13:35 (Ref:3948059)   #1843
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then i urge you to look at their gt work, particularly in the national series. the sheer number of different sizes, compounds to suit each car... it's really interesting.

fwiw, market research suggests that f1 has done wonders for their profile. that's pretty much the main reason they're still involved - it's expensive but far better for advertising than anything else they're involved with.

disclaimer: i run goodyears on my car
Much of that is down to TV coverage. Pirelli and other sponsors or series partners won't get that sort of exposure anymore, when it all goes behind the TV pay wall.
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Old 16 Mar 2020, 08:53 (Ref:3964470)   #1844
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going back to a discussion about f1 tyres being recycled, apparently they’re used as fuel at a cement factory near hq at didcot...

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/14...a-cancellation

tyres, particularly racing ones are really only designed to be mounted once to a set of rims. the more you take them on and off the more you change the structure and risk damage. so it makes sense that they’re taken off and recycled immediately.
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