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Old 2 Mar 2020, 20:44 (Ref:3961104)   #16
P38 in workshop
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P38 in workshop has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
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Originally Posted by S griffin View Post
I think it will take time, Ferrari need to sort themselves out first

Apart from the Todt,Brawn,Byrne,Stepney,Schumacher years thats been the case since about 1980.I don't suppose Rory Byrne is devoting too much of his time to the cause these days and the others have moved on-some permanently.
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Old 2 Mar 2020, 23:13 (Ref:3961123)   #17
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What will take time?
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Old 3 Mar 2020, 05:03 (Ref:3961150)   #18
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What will take time?
Ferrari working out who will be next to run the FIA?

For this to become forgotten news?

For this to become a 'gate?
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Old 3 Mar 2020, 07:59 (Ref:3961168)   #19
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Casper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridCasper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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I think it will take time, Ferrari need to sort themselves out first
Ferrari have got confusion in their DNA, they will never sort themselves out.
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Old 3 Mar 2020, 18:44 (Ref:3961327)   #20
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Remember 'Spygate' (aka Stepneygate) in 2007, where McLaren obtained Ferrari secrets by deception, and copped a DSQ from the season and a humungous fine.
Edit: Nearly forgot Crashgate, although that was just plain cheating rather than car cheating.
also BAR Honda DSQ's and 2 race ban for having oversize / hidden fuel tanks back c 2005.

Also Tyrrell's leadshot in the brake cooling water refill towards the end of the race. When was that? Back in the 80s or 90s.
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Old 3 Mar 2020, 21:58 (Ref:3961358)   #21
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Also Tyrrell's leadshot in the brake cooling water refill towards the end of the race. When was that? Back in the 80s or 90s.
1984 IIRC. I remember Bellof was still alive,and he lost points and a podium from his brilliant drive at Monaco.
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Old 4 Mar 2020, 11:23 (Ref:3961506)   #22
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Other teams not happy...

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/form...cid=spartandhp
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Old 4 Mar 2020, 12:02 (Ref:3961512)   #23
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Casper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridCasper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
The investigation result was never going to be the end of it no matter how many NDA's were signed. This is going to be bigger than the Corona Virus. I wonder how those who thought up the idea are feeling now, surely they did not think that it was going to be the end of the whole thing.
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Old 4 Mar 2020, 12:21 (Ref:3961514)   #24
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The hilariousness that is the other teams complaining about openness of the rulings makes me laugh and question if they actually care or just want to be seen pretending to be open. If it was Honda, no one would have batted an eye and said well I guess they cleared that up and the part was legal but not what the FIA had in mind. It has been disallowed but the system could still be compromised by detailed statement about how they did it.
But it's Ferrari so obviously they were rubbing the engine with virginal sacrifice and burning FIA documents in the engine for extra power. Clearly the FIA allowed them to have millions more hp than us even though we beat them consistently obviously that part on our car would have been unbeatable.
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Old 4 Mar 2020, 17:14 (Ref:3961565)   #25
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The hilariousness that is the other teams complaining about openness of the rulings makes me laugh and question if they actually care or just want to be seen pretending to be open. If it was Honda, no one would have batted an eye and said well I guess they cleared that up and the part was legal but not what the FIA had in mind. It has been disallowed but the system could still be compromised by detailed statement about how they did it.
But it's Ferrari so obviously they were rubbing the engine with virginal sacrifice and burning FIA documents in the engine for extra power. Clearly the FIA allowed them to have millions more hp than us even though we beat them consistently obviously that part on our car would have been unbeatable.
Slightly OT but I note Hamilton is saying Mercedes may not run DAS in the early races, this may be because Mercedes are unsure of the overall benefit, the cynic in me says it is because they think it will be protested...

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Old 4 Mar 2020, 17:37 (Ref:3961578)   #26
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if it was to be protested, would Merc have to make available the technical details about their system to the other teams? rather wouldn't those details come out in the course of the investigation?

presumably the FIA has this info already and have already deemed it legal for this year (as they have said a few times now) so what would be the point of protesting unless teams are using this process to also glean details about what the other teams are up to/what loopholes the other team has found out?

i ask only to point out the inherent secrecy that exists between the teams and the FIA in all matters and these concerns about transparency need not be about someone cheating. they could also be about one team trying to increase their knowledge base.

imo a private settlement isn't proof in and of itself that Ferrari cheated vs just exploited a loophole.

all good though as someone will just poach the other's employee and will get the data they need.
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Old 4 Mar 2020, 19:20 (Ref:3961614)   #27
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steve nielsen should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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imo a private settlement isn't proof in and of itself that Ferrari cheated vs just exploited a loophole.

It was no loophole, they tampered with the fuel flow meter to increase fuel flow to the engine

that was already illegal and also the reason there are 2 fuel flow meters on the cars this season(to avoid tampering)
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Old 4 Mar 2020, 19:48 (Ref:3961620)   #28
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And you of course have evidence for that.
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Old 4 Mar 2020, 20:34 (Ref:3961625)   #29
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It was no loophole, they tampered with the fuel flow meter to increase fuel flow to the engine

that was already illegal and also the reason there are 2 fuel flow meters on the cars this season(to avoid tampering)
Being a bit pedantic here, but "tampering" says or implies they made changes to the meters. Lets say I agree with your basic premise. I doubt they made changes to the meters. That would be most likely verifiable, but instead Ferrari may have:

1. Found a way to flow more fuel without detection by the homologated meter.
2. How they are doing it is clever enough that it's not obvious and the involved components may have other valid uses.

Hypothetically the FIA position may be "You are flowing more fuel and your clever solution uses X, Y and Z components". The Ferrari position may be "As you can see, the data shows we are not flowing extra fuel and X, Y and Z actually do A, B and C and are unrelated to your speculation that it is trying to increase flow."

I suspect that the FIA knows that adding an extra flow sensor may disrupt the X, Y, Z strategy.

As always, pure speculation on my end. I am not saying Ferrari cheated, but I am trying to weave a story that might fit that scenario. As always, all Ferrari has to do is provide details on the settlement to clear the air!

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Old 4 Mar 2020, 23:21 (Ref:3961649)   #30
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It was no loophole, they tampered with the fuel flow meter to increase fuel flow to the engine

that was already illegal and also the reason there are 2 fuel flow meters on the cars this season(to avoid tampering)
Umm, no. There is ZERO chance it was straight illegal. Even the FIA couldn't risk that coming out and it would. There is no chance it was directly contravening any rules or the punishment would have been strong. If no part was illegal but the combination made a possibly illegal action then the FIA would have to prove it actually did. Without that proof they couldn't afford challenging teams with deep legal pockets. And releasing why they settled with Ferrari would likely release what they were doing. And the FIA wants no part of the info getting out to deal with new systems doing the same thing
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