BMW rumour for Le Mans 2017 - Page 7

Pole2Win · 6 Aug 2015, 07:24 (Ref:3564091)

It's a bit sad how pathetic BMW has become. I see all their speeches as blatant excuses...

mikuni · 6 Aug 2015, 07:51 (Ref:3564094)

I may have missed something, but the battery swap technology is now, those new Tesla S's do it, just no one really wants to invest in the infrastructure to make it available.
http://gas2.org/2013/06/21/video-tes...y-end-of-year/

An endurance race needs to be a single car, it goes without saying. Battery swap technology in race cars is feasible, I like the concept, but I'd still rather race cars had an ICE component for as long as possible. Sound is an important aspect to me for a racing car.

deggis · 6 Aug 2015, 11:31 (Ref:3564130)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TF110

BMW say theyd enter Formula E if there was no car swaps. So they must feel their battery or EV tech is ready.

No, they (he) didn't. "That would be a condition for us to take a step towards potential direct involvement."

AoB Special Stage · 6 Aug 2015, 12:00 (Ref:3564134)

There is a reason why FE cars don't use battery swapping, and it is that the batteries are a stressed member of the chassis.

CTD · 6 Aug 2015, 17:02 (Ref:3564188)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikuni

I may have missed something, but the battery swap technology is now, those new Tesla S's do it, just no one really wants to invest in the infrastructure to make it available.
http://gas2.org/2013/06/21/video-tes...y-end-of-year/

An endurance race needs to be a single car, it goes without saying. Battery swap technology in race cars is feasible, I like the concept, but I'd still rather race cars had an ICE component for as long as possible. Sound is an important aspect to me for a racing car.

Well the infrastructure WAS there, here in Denmark.
However it proved not be a failure.

**Adam43** · 6 Aug 2015, 18:58 (Ref:3564206)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

Exactly my point. If the technology won't allow you to take you car and drive it for 24 hours, it has no place in endurance sports car racing. The whole point of Le Mans is how far one can get in 24h in a sports car. Not cars, and not a car with components replaced in a way that's not doable in the real world.

Otherwise it's going to be wacky races for sake of wacky races.

So you're against it?

I get this point, although part of me goes back to thinking how it is prototype racing. In addition there are quite a few things that aren't realistic/doable in the real world already. This may be a little more extreme.
It would also be interesting, which I like.

Ephaeton · 6 Aug 2015, 19:02 (Ref:3564208)

one could just sink induction coils over all the WEC tracks, recharging those batteries wouldn't be a big problem then

(and using induction coils for recharging is something BMW wants to do anyways (sample source (de)) - at least without movement, there's fraunhofer's Artega1 as well, etc.)

TF110 · 6 Aug 2015, 19:49 (Ref:3564219)

Quote:

Originally Posted by deggis

No, they (he) didn't. "That would be a condition for us to take a step towards potential direct involvement."

Which is entering Formula E, that was the question posed to him. Either as a manufacturer team or supplying battery tech, thats what direct involvement is. What other capacity would it be? Currently theyre just a pace car

Deleted · 6 Aug 2015, 20:07 (Ref:3564220)

No, the important words highlighted

Quote:

Originally Posted by deggis

No, they (he) didn't. "That would be a condition for us to take a step towards potential direct involvement."

**Adam43** · 6 Aug 2015, 20:41 (Ref:3564227)

It doesn't matter.

Deleted · 6 Aug 2015, 20:43 (Ref:3564228)

What doesn't?

I only cleared what Deggis was trying to say. And which I agree with

**Adam43** · 6 Aug 2015, 20:49 (Ref:3564230)

Being right on the Internet.

Nevermind.

Deleted · 6 Aug 2015, 20:55 (Ref:3564231)

I'm sure you have never committed such a crime yourself.

TF110 · 6 Aug 2015, 20:58 (Ref:3564232)

I thought it was pr speak or whatever the termination is for a coy "yes we would join, if..." not a definitive no or a yes. But from every other answer given, that looked to me the most solid.

deggis · 7 Aug 2015, 17:36 (Ref:3564423)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam43

Being right on the Internet.

Nevermind.

Pole2Win · 8 Aug 2015, 06:31 (Ref:3564539)

The current management of BMW seems incredibly conservative and reluctant to involve their brand in any sort of racing which requires a substantial effort to win. That's why instead of building a bespoke sportscar which would allow them to compete in GT3 and GTLM they made a hack Z4 with an M3 engine and now a fat M6, and that's why they prefer to spend their time in DTM where most components are standardized and the result is less dependant on machinery. I'll bet a beer 6-pack with all you guys on how all these BMW rumored involvements with WEC will vaporize and they'll consistently deny it. Why? Because it takes monies to win, and the BMW board prefers to direct investment into treehugging technologies and their vanity project "i" brand.

Forget about the BMW of old. The manufacturer I learned to admire doesn't exist anymore. I'm not one of those braindead fanboys who hate the new turbo cars for the sake of "not being NA", but not seeing BMW up there with the big boys, and no longer being a brand that inspires passion, frustrates me a lot.

They haven't been doing "everything" wrong, though. I quite like their focus on lightweight technology and mass production of carbon fiber.

Deleted · 8 Aug 2015, 08:26 (Ref:3564546)

I hated when they run the M3 GT2 taxi cab. Though had it been today I probably wouldn't really care. Bur most of all they were quite whiny and apalling in WTCC. Top on the cake was probably the time when they switched factory car gearboxes for non allowed sequential in order to get weight breaks. Laughed when they got busted.

Anyway of all marques involved in racing, other than Merc it's prob the one I'm least interrest in following so I don't really mind what they do and don't do. (And the Merc hate actually mainly comes from childhood memories, we had a crappy former 80's taxi Merc with faulty whistling exhaust, oh my god it was embarrassing to travel on that when literally everybody heard the sound and turned their heads in our little town)

Pole2Win · 8 Aug 2015, 08:49 (Ref:3564549)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiana

I hated when they run the M3 GT2 taxi cab. Though had it been today I probably wouldn't really care. Bur most of all they were quite whiny and apalling in WTCC. Top on the cake was probably the time when they switched factory car gearboxes for non allowed sequential in order to get weight breaks. Laughed when they got busted.

Anyway of all marques involved in racing, other than Merc it's prob the one I'm least interrest in following so I don't really mind what they do and don't do. (And the Merc hate actually mainly comes from childhood memories, we had a crappy former 80's taxi Merc with faulty whistling exhaust, oh my god it was embarrassing to travel on that when literally everybody heard the sound and turned their heads in our little town)

They've been in this "cheating" mood since the M3 GTR, it seems. The M3 GTR was a great car and I love it, but it simply wasn't in the spirit of the regulations, like most everything they've been doing since, they did it because they couldn't develop a straight-6 on the same level of the 911 engine. M3 GT2, Z4 GT3, all of them are cars that break the spirit of the regs one way or another. The laymen don't care, but the hardcore fans do.

The BMW of the 70s until the 90s doesn't exist anymore. Best to forget it and treat it as something else now.

TF110 · 8 Aug 2015, 22:44 (Ref:3564679)

M6 will be fine. Hate BMW all you want, at least theyre racing something. Lots of companies dont even do that. If the M6 can be upgraded to GTE spec, good. What other car would you suggest they use? The M4's little engine just wont cut it. So silly to see people complain about GTE becoming homologation specials, but here comes BMW with an actual GT and they get criticized

You cant win at everything.

Velociraptor · 26 Oct 2015, 10:16 (Ref:3585658)

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/mo...-mans-24-hours

Quote:

BMW is investigating a high-profile racing comeback at
Le Mans, with marketing boss Ian Robertson admitting a
return to the famous 24-hour endurance race “is on the
agenda”.
However, Robertson stopped short of saying which class
of racing BMW was currently investigating, highlighting
only that the BMW M6 GT3 car showed intent to compete.
Autocar revealed in July that BMW is considering a more
high-profile assault on the race, possibly using a radical
hydrogen-powered fuel cell race car in 2018 as it
prepares to pave the way to launch a hydrogen powered
fuel cell production car around 2020.
It is not clear whether BMW would enter the car at Le
Mans in an established class or as an experimental
vehicle in the non-competitive ‘Garage 56’ category that
has included Nissan’s electrically assisted Deltawing and
ZEOD racers in recent years.
Robertson appeared to play down the option of the non-
competitive category, saying: “Garage 56 is not that well
known, and we have to be conscious of the return on any
investment.”

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/mo...-mans-24-hours

Seems things are moving behind the scenes. I hope it's a LMP1 entry.

wdave0 · 26 Oct 2015, 13:09 (Ref:3585697)

The most direct way would be to let Rahal develop the LMGT car and then take the IMSA invite to Le Mans.

Acid09 · 26 Oct 2015, 16:27 (Ref:3585756)

Quote:

Originally Posted by wdave0

The most direct way would be to let Rahal develop the LMGT car and then take the IMSA invite to Le Mans.

I don't think BMW needs any invites, it's safe to say that the ACO would welcome them with open arms if they field any type of legal car.

deggis · 26 Oct 2015, 17:04 (Ref:3585760)

The spokesman person plays down G56 (good... good!) but hard to see hydrogen being written to the regs by 2018 and in practice earlier because of lead times.

Acid09 · 27 Oct 2015, 04:05 (Ref:3585872)

Quote:

Originally Posted by deggis

The spokesman person plays down G56 (good... good!) but hard to see hydrogen being written to the regs by 2018 and in practice earlier because of lead times.

Agreed. A LMP1 programme for BMW would either mean finding an external partner or to make substantial infrastructure investments.

A few weeks ago, Jens Marquardt openly worried about DTM becoming to aero-depended as BMW uses their road-car wind tunnels to develop the race cars, they don't even have dedicated facilities for that the way Audi or Mercedes have.

Similar to how Porsche has done, BMW would need to basically build a whole new factory or find someone external to do it. That what makes a BMW LMP1 programme so unlikely..not only do they need to front the money for the programme as such, they have to make substantial investments as well.

So even if BMW was willing to do it, which I sort of doubt, I would expect the lead-up time would at least be 3-4 years, minimum. That is unless they find an external partner.

TzeiTzei · 27 Oct 2015, 06:28 (Ref:3585882)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acid09

So even if BMW was willing to do it, which I sort of doubt, I would expect the lead-up time would at least be 3-4 years, minimum. That is unless they find an external partner.

Just a thought, but partnering Sauber might once again be a possibility.

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