[WEC] Toyota LMP1 Discussion

[TF110]

They spent hundreds of millions in F1 every year. They claim the lmp1 budget is a quarter of that per year. Plus Toyota just reported record profits, despite recalls. They make billions each quarter. Their profit this fiscal year was greater than the next 3 biggest auto companies combined. Theyre not hurting for money at all. Any recall has little affect. The floormat, sudden acceleration recall didnt even stop them making money. In '09 the recession in the U.S. hurt every major auto maker. So bmw, honda and Toyota all dropped f1.

$100million a year on lmp1 is a drop in the bucket to what they spend on other things. So no, theres not much going on that would make them abandon the wec. 2017 is only two more years participation anyway. From there maybe we'll see if they step down or continue on. Im thinking class 1 and maybe Formula E along with the wrc is their next global race projects.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by Chuliandred

And are you sure that the economic will continue to grow? Or more specific what's about the Toyota recalls. Why should they be immune to trouble?

I didn't make any predictions, but it certainly doesn't look like ~2008 right now, does it?

Recalls? Doesn't that happen nearly all the time. And lets not forget that pulling out from racing is always at least as much as about image as it is about saving money, because "expensive racing program" and shutting down factories doesn't mix well, so in that sense, recalls shouldn't have the same effect.

Did I mention board room level anywhere? The original statement was about why the topic of Toyota pulling out pops up on this board, at facebook, or somewhere else where fans disucss the WEC so frequently. Try to watch between your fingers while you are palming your face so hard. It seems to prevent you from reading complete and correct.

Looks like that was a misunderstanding.

[Simmi]

Awesome race truck tweeted earlier by Kamui.

[CyberMotor]

Originally Posted by deggis

Interestingly, the display at 00:30 is blurred. Maybe there is then some truth to manufacturers not liking onboard camera angles that are placed deep in the cockpit because they might show these things, which could partly explain why ACO always uses those boring right-behind-the-windscreen angles.

I noticed that blurry screen also. Not sure what it was displaying located in that position.

[CyberMotor]

I have seen the Takata sponsor logos on the Toyota and Takata is undergoing one of the largest recalls in history. I think it is 32 million vehicles with their airbags installed. It seems that could directly involve some sponsorship money for Toyota. Plus Toyota is having to recall 1.5 million affected vehicles.

http://blog.caranddriver.com/massive...cted-vehicles/

[Simmi]

BTW that image of the truck above is just a Japanese roadshow, not how they are rocking up to test day.

https://twitter.com/Toyota_Hybrid/st...253440?lang=en

[Acid09]

Not surprising, that does not look particularly practical in terms of using the available space

Cool stuff though, good to see Toyota Japan interested in the project.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Simmi

Awesome race truck tweeted earlier by Kamui.

Originally Posted by Simmi

BTW that image of the truck above is just a Japanese roadshow, not how they are rocking up to test day.

https://twitter.com/Toyota_Hybrid/st...253440?lang=en

I would love to see that driving down the road, even if it was just a show car!

[J Jay]

Originally Posted by Simmi

I didn't realize Minichamps were doing 1:1 scale models now. I might need to save a bit to afford this one though...

[seanyb505]

Yes, but it will be much cheaper than the other Manufacturers, and they are only making two, and not three.

[TF110]

If anyone has noticed, Kobayashi is now added as the 4th driver on the #1 car. The TS040 showcar has been doing its tour from yesterday and continues to circle Japan for the next couple weeks. Iirc, theyre holding a viewing for the race as well.

[Articus]

Has there been any suggestion that they were not getting the tires working properly for Toyota in terms of temperature and wear? That alone could mask a lot of performance and might explain the poor sector 2 times.

[kvenom]

Originally Posted by Articus

Has there been any suggestion that they were not getting the tires working properly for Toyota in terms of temperature and wear? That alone could mask a lot of performance and might explain the poor sector 2 times.

That would be very strange considering one of their goals for the 2015 car was superior tire behavioural characteristics/wear.

[J Jay]

Originally Posted by Articus

Has there been any suggestion that they were not getting the tires working properly for Toyota in terms of temperature and wear? That alone could mask a lot of performance and might explain the poor sector 2 times.

No, and I'm not sure it is the case either. At Silverstone the #1 was the first car to double stint (even Audi at the time weren't sure about it, but Toyota forced their hand - as it turns out the R18 was just as capable with its tyre degradation). I've heard nothing from anyone that would imply that the tyres are a problem this year.

The times from both cars have been pretty consistent in both races, just a bit and a lot slower than the other factories respectively.

[Acid09]

I'm pretty sure they're simply down on power, a French article mentions a power deficit of up to 150hp.

That alone explains their poor performance pretty much.

[Artur]

Originally Posted by TF110

Plus Toyota just reported record profits, despite recalls. They make billions each quarter. Their profit this fiscal year was greater than the next 3 biggest auto companies combined.

Toyota's net income, last year, was $17.7m while VAG's was $11.8m but you had to keep in mind that this things changes alot from year to year. For instance, Toyota's net income in 2013 was only $10.2m and in 2012 a "tiny" $3.4m(VAG had $7m in 2012, ie, double of Toyota, so things change dramatically yearly)

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=TM+I...atement&annual

VAG is the top company in R&D investment, though. While Toyota is only 7th and this two are the only car manufacturers among the top 10:
http://fortune.com/2014/11/17/top-10...h-development/


If Toyota doesn't start decreasing their net income massively in the next few years, then I agree it's very likely that their LMP1 project is safe

[Articus]

Originally Posted by Acid09

I'm pretty sure they're simply down on power, a French article mentions a power deficit of up to 150hp.

That alone explains their poor performance pretty much.

I mean a rumoured power deficit of 150hp compared to the Porsche is believable but haven't Toyota been messing about with the motors and supercapicitors at Silverstone? I heard they changed spec either before of right after qualifying? They have still always been ahead of Audi in a straightline haven't they? Watching the cars at Silverstone and Spa, they appeared to have poor front end grip, or atleast poor balance. There were many moments when the cars where exceeding the track limits on corner exit from what look like understeer.

[Spyderman]

But according to this, Porsche is the least powerful and has the lowest top speed.

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

But according to this, Porsche is the least powerful and has the lowest top speed.

Never trust manufacturer-supplied figures when it comes to their racing cars. Real figures are always higher. The Porsche figures in that infographic are most likely seriously underplayed, considering their showings so far this season.

[Ephaeton]

Originally Posted by Artur

Toyota's net income, last year, was $17.7m (...)
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=TM+I...atement&annual
(...)

For orientation, these toyota numbers are in THOUSANDS. 17,703,000 are not 17,7 million but 17,7 billion.
The relations are retained, of course, but remember you're talking about a different order of magnitude there

[kvenom]

Seems like they are trying to keep a low-profile, no pictures of the car unloading yet when all others have. New super-secret aero package perhaps?

[TF110]

Some countries use thousand-million instead of billion for 10-digit figures.

[Damian Baldi]

Billion 1.000.000.000.000
American billion 1.000.000.000

[TF110]

Long scale vs. Short scale

[Articus]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

But according to this, Porsche is the least powerful and has the lowest top speed.

Yep...