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Old 4 Jun 2021, 12:43 (Ref:4054590)   #1
SnoodyMcFlude
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Nitro Rallycross vs World Rallycross

Apparently Nitro Rallycross are going to have their own brand of Electric Supercars running a 10 event global series next season, with Gronholm RX, Xite, Vermont and OMSE already committed.

https://nitrorallycross.com/featured...lectric-class/

Do we think that there's really enough of a market for this and World RX? Max Pucher's grand plans for a rival seemed to fade away but Nitro RX has a bit more behind it and I guess appeals to a wider market a bit better? However when Nitro RX ran before I found it interesting rather than particularly exciting and it felt like it was all hanging around just having a really big jump.

Also many of the complaints levelled at World RX are about it moving away from traditional rallycross tracks to newly created circuits shoehorned into an F1 track and built as temporary.
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Old 4 Jun 2021, 13:25 (Ref:4054596)   #2
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Nitro RX will be a competitor against WRX that's for sure. There are already a lot of big names going into NRX. Plus they've partnered with RallyX Nordic. They're going about this the right way, getting teams from US and Europe involved. And making permanent circuits in North America.

I think that the new promoters are already worse than IMG, though they haven't actually had time to prove themselves. It'll come down to whether you want to race against the best or race for an FIA title.

IMO Wrx will be gone after 2021
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Old 4 Jun 2021, 13:27 (Ref:4054598)   #3
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Originally Posted by SnoodyMcFlude View Post
Do we think that there's really enough of a market for this and World RX?
If NRX is going down a similar line to the X-Games rallycross Championship - and World Rallycross continues to be more "traditional" - then I think there could still be room for both.

NRX certainly seems to be attracting more attention at the moment, whereas World RX news is incredibly thin on the ground.

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Max Pucher's grand plans for a rival seemed to fade away but Nitro RX has a bit more behind it and I guess appeals to a wider market a bit better?
I believe Pucher has put a bid in to run the Euros next year, so I wonder if the future of Titans depends on the success (or failure) of that effort?

Perhaps it is an outdated/unfair view, but the NRX tracks still make me uneasy. X-Games had several "near misses" with big crashes from ACP, Topi and Gronholm, plus you have the Scott Speed incident last year. Can't help but feel that the emphasis on spectacle is comes with a massively increased risk to drivers... but all motorsport is dangerous and maybe my view isn't objective.
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Old 4 Jun 2021, 14:20 (Ref:4054620)   #4
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After Topi's gap jump crash the gaps were removed completely from GRC and X-Games. When it was in NRX in 2018, I was very surprised. But on that NRX track they had that line to separate drivers going into it, which made the racing a little goofy to try and cater it to the spectacle.

There is so little news about WRX I'm starting to wonder. Aside from that prototype being tested by Mikkelsen there's nothing of interest going on at the moment. I feel like its only grasp is being more traditional and having that official WC status.

NRX basically got the American audience already being based there, and being an Americanized, spectacle-friendly style of motorsport I honestly think it could appeal to younger audiences or masses not being that into motorsports. I think that SUV idea could be a real seller for manufacturers since there is no motorsport for them except for Dakar and cross-country rallying. Just imagine all the Audi/BMW/Volvo/Range Rover etc SUVs you see daily.
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Old 12 Jun 2021, 21:08 (Ref:4055990)   #5
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As an unexpected and pleasant surprise, the Open 2WD class at Nordic RX had some pretty cool cars and lots of potential - most of the cars seemed to be supernational type builds with a variety of engines.

I imagine the cost would be a lot more manageable as there are a lot of such cars laying around just waiting for someone to return them to opposite lock heroism and big turbo fireballs.
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Old 13 Jun 2021, 11:58 (Ref:4056111)   #6
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I think there are numerous reasons why it does not work here.

Mainly the class stability, the rules have been the same in Scandinavia for a very long time, so there is a huge base of cars around, some with the same owners, some with loads over many years, it suits differing cars.

They drop in classes like ERC 1600 and rwd over time, but those cars tend to either stay or be developed into other cars. But the main thing is space noise and population, in these countries they do things with them like asphalt sprints, gravel sprints, Bakkelopp, all using the same car, so you can use it, share it, drive it in their events. We will never have that here due to constraints over space, noise, population although in the past you might get a guy using his car in hillclimbs, autocross etc.

They have far less people, a government who lets people do their thing, and space to do it, we do not.

Finally our pathetic system of two series (because f *****iness between people years ago) covering about 150 drivers does not help, all with tons of different classes as some rich guy comes in and wants to set up HIS class, so some berk lets him, so you get numerous classes, when you only really need say three or four.

I would be happy with Supercar, Supermods over 2litre, under 2 litre (whatever split on cc works) and something like Swifts or mini's.

That is literally ALL you need, instead what we have is a stupid, multi class , multi championship system where each series runner has his own series with endless tiny classes, and divides the entire grid down into 10 car fields, it is so stupid and inward looking it is beyond me sadly.
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Old 14 Jun 2021, 08:17 (Ref:4056306)   #7
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As an unexpected and pleasant surprise, the Open 2WD class at Nordic RX had some pretty cool cars and lots of potential - most of the cars seemed to be supernational type builds with a variety of engines.

I imagine the cost would be a lot more manageable as there are a lot of such cars laying around just waiting for someone to return them to opposite lock heroism and big turbo fireballs.
Open 2WD more or less exists to try and regain the premier Supernational class that got killed in Sweden. Ironically it got killed by costs getting really high and the motorsport federation handling it quite badly.

Thing is, the class is open to anything with 2WD. Literally. Tiger for example is in a Supernational spec car, quite heavily invested in with ALS and 530hp, while Mattias Jansson on the other hand is in a 2400cc car which has a smaller engine and is more stock like. And Venäläinen, who competed in that Datsun at OuluZone, actually doesn't race with the premier Finnish Supernational class, he races in another class called Autokrossi or something like that.
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Old 14 Jun 2021, 12:04 (Ref:4056332)   #8
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Yes I remember Tigers old car being pretty much dominant too! His dads BMW, never worked out why the others all sued 4 cylinder and he used a 6, seemed a trifle unfair
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Old 17 Jun 2021, 08:28 (Ref:4056783)   #9
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Yes I remember Tigers old car being pretty much dominant too! His dads BMW, never worked out why the others all sued 4 cylinder and he used a 6, seemed a trifle unfair
He did have to carry extra weight in the car because of the engine if I remember it right, which was 5500cc. I could be wrong though. That team apparently had a peculiar mindset with a big focus on engine over anything else. Looking at the current car's ride hight and ridiculous suspension it kinda shows too.

Tiger did take a shot at Supercars with Öhman's old Focus. But his efforts were plagued by constant technical and mechanical issues, probably because of their lack of knowledge on how to run a Supercar.
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Old 20 Jun 2021, 19:10 (Ref:4057473)   #10
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Well, I think Open 2wd has potential, I think a race series with wide rulesets such as this could be quite interesting. Surely there are plenty of dormant cars that could be updated?

Surely there's a limit to how much power a two wheel drive platform can utilize. If Tiger runs a 600hp wankel and keeps short shifting it, it seems like a 500hp turbo could be competitive. My impression is that a 500hp non restrictor engine is probably a lot cheaper than the ultra sophisticated engined needed to extract the last few percent from a closed ruleset such as supernational.
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Old 20 Jun 2021, 20:09 (Ref:4057490)   #11
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The big issue is that if you leave it unlimited, someone will always come and blow it up with a trick car. In the UK you had Chris Evans in a BTCC engined Micra FFS, then Bellerby in that Elise, so light and quick, it just moves the goalposts a bit, and the cars are legal so they have to be able to race.

it needs very careful rule making, and they got it right a long tiem ago in most parts of Scandinavia, and nowhere else really followed that well.
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Old 21 Jun 2021, 15:15 (Ref:4057624)   #12
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Well, I think Open 2wd has potential, I think a race series with wide rulesets such as this could be quite interesting. Surely there are plenty of dormant cars that could be updated?

Surely there's a limit to how much power a two wheel drive platform can utilize. If Tiger runs a 600hp wankel and keeps short shifting it, it seems like a 500hp turbo could be competitive. My impression is that a 500hp non restrictor engine is probably a lot cheaper than the ultra sophisticated engined needed to extract the last few percent from a closed ruleset such as supernational.
He doesn't run a 600hp engine as I commented previously though. More hp can be counterproductive for sure but then you have the rest of the car that you can, for what I know, investment in heavily with little restriction. After all, the supernational class got killed and Open 2WD took its place. What is actually different between them I don't know, so it could just happen all over again.
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Old 21 Jun 2021, 16:11 (Ref:4057641)   #13
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Is RallyX Nordic the premier series for Open 2WD?

Recently watched some coverage on the RallyX Youtube channel but grid size is very disappointing (only 6 at Holjes). Supercars has more entries but still would expect more quantity and quality.
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Old 21 Jun 2021, 18:40 (Ref:4057668)   #14
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I thought the Nordic RX commenters said Tiger ran a 670hp turbo wankel actually. He was shortshifting a whole lot on the loose anyways.

As for the size of the starting field in Finland, apparently not a lot of people were prepared to cross borders due to Covid hassles. I don't know.

As for an open class, I agree there needs to be rules to equalize the field. But I don't think they need to be as specific as supernational for instance. There should be room for different solutions to the equation. I thought the old VLN rules were pretty good, they issued a table for power, weight and fuel tank size. Weight and power regs could be roomy to keep cost down.

I don't know what happens if you lower the compression and add a turbo to the now pretty much useless 2400 supernational engine, but I think it could give Tiger a whole lot more trouble than he sees today.

I really don't know or care that much, I just want very sideways racing, fireballs and cool looking cars duking it out
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Old 22 Jun 2021, 17:59 (Ref:4057780)   #15
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Holjes (Sweden) had only 6 Open 2WD entries, so assume nothing to do with Covid.
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