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19 Jan 2021, 22:02 (Ref:4030120) | #26 | ||
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There is a separate section for “Motorsport History” and that is what is being discussed here, not “historic racing today”
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19 Jan 2021, 22:25 (Ref:4030127) | #27 | |||
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24 Jan 2021, 16:24 (Ref:4030944) | #28 | |||
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Also, totally agree with you about the 19. Even in the fairly early years of Super Touring that car looked nothing like you'd expect to be on the grid, it looked so out of place. If it wasn't for those superb Michelin wets it would have been a season of absolutely nothing, especially when you consider the driver line up. Glorified national saloon car cup entrant. Nigel Albon did a fairly credible job keeping the car fairly competitive in the 94 Total cup given the likes of Nigel Smith were running an ex RML EE Cavalier which was no slouch. Even managed to pick up a win. |
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24 Jan 2021, 17:35 (Ref:4030951) | #29 | |
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Some interesting facts from the last few years (excludes fastest lap, pole position, led a lap points):
2018: Points from race 1: 1. Dan Cammish 110 2. Colin Turkington 100 3. Ash Sutton 93 4. Tom Chilton 86 5. Jack Goff 84 6. Sam Tordoff 75 7. Andrew Jordan 72 8. Matt Neal 67 9. Josh Cook 60 10. Brett Smith 57 11. Adam Morgan 55 12. Chris Smiley 55 13. Tom Ingram 44 14. Matt Simpson 41 15. Senna Proctor 37 16. James Cole 37 17. Aiden Moffat 36 18. Tom Oliphant 34 19. Rob Collard 28 20. Rob Austin 25 21. Daniel Lloyd 25 22. Rory Butcher 23 23. Ricky Collard 20 24. Mike Bushell 19 25. Jason Plato 17 26. Ollie Jackson 8 27. Stephen Jelley 2 Points from race 2: 1. Tom Ingram 115 2. Ash Sutton 85 3. Colin Turkington 84 4. Andrew Jordan 80 5. Josh Cook 78 6. Senna Proctor 75 7. Adam Morgan 73 8. Tom Chilton 72 9. Dan Cammish 71 10. Sam Tordoff 63 11. Matt Neal 62 12. Chris Smiley 57 13. Jack Goff 56 14. Rob Austin 44 15. Aiden Moffat 39 16. Rory Butcher 39 17. Matt Simpson 29 18. Ollie Jackson 28 19. Tom Oliphant 23 20. James Cole 21 21. Mike Bushell 19 22. Jake Hill 17 23. Ricky Collard 17 24. Tom Boardman 13 25. Daniel Lloyd 13 26. Rob Collard 13 27. Brett Smith 11 28. Ant Whorton-Eales 6 29. Jason Plato 2 30. Bobby Thompson 2 31. James Nash 2 32. Glynn Geddie 1 Points from race 3 (no double points at Snetterton): 1. Tom Ingram 118 2. Colin Turkington 103 3. Adam Morgan 98 4. Tom Chilton 92 5. Josh Cook 91 6. Andrew Jordan 80 7. Ash Sutton 67 8. Matt Neal 67 9. Jack Goff 62 10. Sam Tordoff 60 11. Senna Proctor 55 12. Rob Austin 52 13. Rob Collard 44 14. Daniel Lloyd 40 15. Aiden Moffat 40 16. Chris Smiley 40 17. Matt Simpson 39 18. Rory Butcher 37 19. Dan Cammish 30 20. Mike Bushell 24 21. Ollie Jackson 18 22. Bobby Thompson 15 23. Jake Hill 12 24. James Cole 9 25. Ricky Collard 9 26. Jason Plato 6 27. Tom Oliphant 5 28. James Nash 4 29. Stephen Jelley 2 30. Tom Boardman 1 So, interestingly, Dan Cammish scored more points than anyone else in race ones, and was second on race one and two combined. It was only his poor race threes that dropped him to tenth overall. This indicates that maybe he struggled when in the middle of the pack, due to reverse grids, and so maybe he wasn't very good at battling other cars in his first season, although he was already very quick. Tom Ingram, on the other hand, really struggled in race ones, but made up for it by being the top scorer for both race two and race three. This indicates the Toyota Avensis was not very quick when carrying success ballast, but was the fastest car when it was lighter, and Ingram often battled his way through to a podium from a low grid slot in race two. Another driver whose stats I found interesting was Brett Smith, who was in the top ten for race ones, but scored very few points in race two and none at all in race three. |
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24 Jan 2021, 18:36 (Ref:4030957) | #30 | |
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2019:
Points from race one: 1. Dan Cammish 126 2. Colin Turkington 108 3. Andrew Jordan 102 4. Tom Ingram 85 5. Rory Butcher 83 6. Tom Chilton 73 7. Matt Neal 71 8. Sam Tordoff 66 9. Jason Plato 65 10. Ash Sutton 64 11. Josh Cook 61 12. Chris Smiley 61 13. Tom Oliphant 59 14. Jake Hill 42 15. Adam Morgan 41 16. Rob Collard 39 17. Stephen Jelley 28 18. Aiden Moffat 26 19. Ollie Jackson 21 20. Mike Bushell 19 21. Senna Proctor 16 22. Bobby Thompson 15 23. Jack Goff 15 24. Matt Simpson 13 25. Michael Caine 4 26. Michael Crees 4 27. Mark Blundell 2 28. Daniel Rowbottom 1 Points from race 2: 1. Andrew Jordan 146 2. Dan Cammish 127 3. Colin Turkington 120 4. Ash Sutton 87 5. Tom Ingram 80 6. Matt Neal 80 7. Jason Plato 80 8. Josh Cook 79 9. Rory Butcher 67 10. Tom Chilton 53 11. Adam Morgan 53 12. Tom Oliphant 45 13. Sam Tordoff 41 14. Jake Hill 41 15. Ollie Jackson 33 16. Stephen Jelley 30 17. Rob Collard 28 18. Senna Proctor 28 19. Chris Smiley 24 20. Matt Simpson 17 21. Aiden Moffat 15 22. Michael Caine 12 23. Bobby Thompson 9 24. Mike Bushell 7 25. Carl Boardley 3 26. Daniel Rowbottom 2 Points from race 3: 1. Josh Cook 130 2. Rory Butcher 109 3. Jason Plato 84 4. Matt Neal 80 5. Colin Turkington 76 6. Ash Sutton 75 7. Tom Ingram 73 8. Tom Chilton 72 9. Tom Oliphant 70 10. Adam Morgan 61 11. Dan Cammish 59 12. Andrew Jordan 59 13. Rob Collard 49 14. Aiden Moffat 48 15. Chris Smiley 47 16. Jake Hill 45 17. Stephen Jelley 44 18. Sam Tordoff 34 19. Jack Goff 30 20. Ollie Jackson 27 21. Bobby Thompson 10 22. Michael Crees 7 23. Senna Proctor 5 24. Matt Simpson 3 25. Mark Blundell 3 26. Sam Osborne 2 27. Rob Smith 2 28. Carl Boardley 2 29. Daniel Rowbottom 2 Dan Cammish was the top scorer in race one for the second year running, with Andrew Jordan winning race two. The top three in the championship scored significantly more points than anyone else in races one and two, but none of them scored particularly highly in race three. However, Turkington was better than Jordan and Cammish in race three. Josh Cook, on the other hand, did not score many in races one and two, but was the best in race three by a long way, which lifted him to third in the championship. |
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24 Jan 2021, 18:50 (Ref:4030959) | #31 | |
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2020:
Points from race one: 1. Dan Cammish 140 2. Tom Ingram 121 3. Colin Turkington 119 4. Rory Butcher 108 5. Ash Sutton 103 6. Jake Hill 87 7. Adam Morgan 66 8. Matt Neal 64 9. Tom Chilton 57 10. Josh Cook 52 11. Tom Oliphant 51 12. Ollie Jackson 36 13. Chris Smiley 33 14. Senna Proctor 32 15. Stephen Jelley 32 16. Michael Crees 21 17. Bobby Thompson 17 18. Aiden Moffat 16 19. Sam Osborne 9 20. Carl Boardley 6 21. Rob Austin 4 22. James Gornall 3 23. Andy Neate 1 24. Paul Rivett 1 Points from race two: 1. Colin Turkington 128 2. Tom Ingram 123 3. Ash Sutton 114 4. Dan Cammish 106 5. Rory Butcher 85 6. Tom Oliphant 76 7. Jake Hill 66 8. Adam Morgan 62 9. Matt Neal 62 10. Josh Cook 60 11. Ollie Jackson 49 12. Senna Proctor 48 13. Tom Chilton 44 14. Aiden Moffat 35 15. Chris Smiley 32 16. Stephen Jelley 20 17. Michael Crees 18 18. Bobby Thompson 17 19. Sam Osborne 9 20. James Gornall 6 21. Jack Goff 6 22. Carl Boardley 6 23. Rob Austin 4 24. Andy Neate 2 25. Mike Bushell 1 Points from race three: 1. Ash Sutton 117 2. Tom Oliphant 99 3. Rory Butcher 84 4. Tom Chilton 82 5. Dan Cammish 79 6. Colin Turkington 77 7. Adam Morgan 77 8. Josh Cook 76 9. Tom Ingram 72 10. Ollie Jackson 64 11. Senna Proctor 61 12. Jake Hill 59 13. Aiden Moffat 54 14. Matt Neal 54 15. Chris Smiley 40 16. Stephen Jelley 20 17. Michael Crees 11 18. Sam Osborne 11 19. Bobby Thompson 10 20. James Gornall 9 21. Carl Boardley 6 22. Rob Austin 5 23. Jack Goff 5 24. Ollie Brown 3 25. Jack Butel 2 26. Glynn Geddie 1 27. Nic Hamilton 1 Dan Cammish is the top scorer in race one for the third year in a row. The main thing I found interesting here was Ash Sutton, who was fifth in race one and third in race two, significantly behind Turkington, Cammish and Ingram for race one and two combined, but he made up for it by winning race three comfortably. This makes sense with the Infiniti's problem with qualifying, but much better race pace. |
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26 Jan 2021, 11:55 (Ref:4031269) | #32 | ||
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I seem to remember Radisich saying they had found a tyre compound that suited the car towards the end of 94, hence why he was able to dominate the World Cup at Donington. The main problem in 95 was the heavy V6 put a lot of strain on the front tyres. They seemed to have sorted the problem in 96, for although the car was seldom competitive, it did seem to be more consistent over a race distance |
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26 Jan 2021, 12:53 (Ref:4031276) | #33 | |||
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On the V6 isaue, I recall a similar problem for the MG XS in 2001-2002? as it had a V6 in it and it caused tyre wear and unbalanced the car. |
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26 Jan 2021, 17:53 (Ref:4031325) | #34 | ||
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27 Jan 2021, 11:19 (Ref:4031456) | #35 | |
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Indeed. Jean Rangotti and I seem to remember Tim saying thatt they put a handbrake in the car, because that’s what Jean liked!
The team did miss Knockhill that year to develop the car and it paid off, as Menu finished, with Cleland just ahead of him, in 4th, although the was still never going to be a world beater, so quite rightly they switched to the Laguna for 94 |
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30 Jan 2021, 10:52 (Ref:4032004) | #36 | |
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Why did the series go from BSCC to BTCC? Saloon and Touring cars as labels for cars are much of a muchness as Barry Sheene would say?
Speaking of Sheene, I was watching the 92 French 500cc on youtube yesterday. He revealed during commentary of news to me that Wayne Gardner and Steve Soper are mates. |
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30 Jan 2021, 11:05 (Ref:4032009) | #37 | ||
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Because in 1986 there were zero saloons running in Group A - and in mid to late '80s UK, saloons were seen as for the elderly driver, whilst the young, upwardly mobile crowd were driving hot hatches.
R5GT, Golf Gti, Escort RS Turbo and Corolla GT were the cars of choice for cruising, and the BTCC reflected this. Not a saloon in sight. |
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30 Jan 2021, 13:09 (Ref:4032043) | #38 | |
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The BSCC had hit an all time low in 86. It needed a fresh start in 87. Calling it the British Touring Car Championship brought it in line with the ETCC and the WTCC
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30 Jan 2021, 14:02 (Ref:4032063) | #39 | ||
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Pretty much every other comparable series around the world was a "Touring Car Championship". I guess the organisers thought they'd bring the name into line with everyone else, and as mentioned, it needed a refresh after the disastrous period of 84-86.
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30 Jan 2021, 14:57 (Ref:4032076) | #40 | |||
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Many of us know my penchant for threads about BSCC/BTCC and wider touring car history. I suggest those not aware of the level of discussion that has occurred over time might take a look in the History Forum and you will find loads of appropriate threads - anything from the 50's through to the 90's! That's my History sales pitch done! This thread should be moved there please hosts... |
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31 Jan 2021, 00:33 (Ref:4032277) | #41 | |
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Good information.
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1 Feb 2021, 09:28 (Ref:4032737) | #42 | ||
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Really? I did a rewatch of the Gr.A season reviews a while ago and it really didn't seem all that bad to me. Certainly much better than the early 2000s or even the Spice-Capri-wins-everything period in the late 70s, early 80s.
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1 Feb 2021, 11:44 (Ref:4032765) | #43 | |
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Maybe it wasn’t so bad, but it was clear it needed a rejig, the BSCC seemed to be no longer relevant. Yes we’ve had some dark times since, but the series has always bounced. We have a lot to look back on since the days of the BSCC and now the BTCC
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1 Feb 2021, 11:51 (Ref:4032769) | #44 | |||
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I have read this - http://touringcarracing.net/Pages/1986%20BSCC.html - but when the opening sentence describes the 'RAC' championship as being sponsorless, I have to question the accuracy... |
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1 Feb 2021, 12:05 (Ref:4032771) | #45 | ||
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rac (royal automobile club) was the governing body in those days. like when it used to be called the msa british touring car championship. msa was the governing body not a sponsor |
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1 Feb 2021, 12:11 (Ref:4032773) | #46 | ||
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Come to think about it, I guess I only started my review-watching with the 1987 season (Tim Harvey's first year) - seems like I had somehow misremembered that as 1985 and was hence wondering how 1986 could have been so bad. But yeah, looking at the season summary at touringcarracing.net, it looks like it really was that bad. Little more than a dozen of cars across four classes - that's super-grim.
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1 Feb 2021, 12:14 (Ref:4032775) | #47 | ||
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1 Feb 2021, 12:27 (Ref:4032776) | #48 | |
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It always was the RAC who ran the series in those days, they stuck around quite a long time and helped the series get moving
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1 Feb 2021, 13:24 (Ref:4032783) | #49 | |||
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2 Feb 2021, 12:47 (Ref:4032997) | #50 | ||
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Anyone remember Ian Heward and his Vauxhall Cavalier in 1996 and 1997?
I seem to recall the tyres he was running were absolutely ancient. |
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