Costs of Racing?

[StephenRae]

Originally Posted by Kyle Tilley

.....To pay for my racing, rightly or wrongly i've opted to live at home this year instead of on uni campus and use the money from my student loan to pay for entries and parts!!

We all have to make sacrifices...I've just blown my whole old persons annual home heating allowance on one race entry!

[AndyV]

I’m an ‘average Joe’ with wife, daughter, dogs, mortgage etc earning just over £32K a year and have been racing in classics since 1998 in a Triumph Spitfire. With costs of fuel/safety equipment/car parts/entry fees...... moving up faster than my pay packet, racing my Spit is now just about out of my reach and I depend on extra overtime money to fund my racing, no overtime = no racing

However I just spent an excellent day at my local oval track (Mendip raceway) and prices are at the other end of the scale, banger racers (contact allowed) get starting money as do the slick shod spaceframe Hot Rods. The Special Rods, a non contact formula of Ford Sierras pay a grand total £60 for a licence and to register for the whole year, NO entry fees. Cars cost around £500 to buy and prepare. At each meeting you get 2 heats and a final (or consolation round) of close frenetic racing with up to 40 cars on a 1/4mile oval. Bargain of the century I think.

Admittedly I’d rather be racing classics rather than sierras, but the economics are hard to argue with.

Andy

[midgetman]

I started racing in 1982 and I certainly don't remember £15 entry fees. Of the order of £35 for a speed event, around £50 for a race. I was earning just under £3k IIRC so race entry of the order of 1 week's wages.

Kyle's dad started a bit before me I think so I reckon we've pinned down the time when race entries started to go up to the early 1980s - possibly 80/81.

Story of my life, I always miss the good times!

Just coughed up £630 for 2 x enduro races plus garage & testing at MG Silverstone. That makes one race under a week's wages for Mr Average.

Entry fees got a bit cheaper then but barriers to entry MUCH higher.

[Chris Y]

Eeee, when I were a lad, we started racing before we were even born, and the tracks used to pay us 3 groats and a sausage roll for every race we started. 'Course, in those days, we had 2 day's track time for every shilling we spent, and we only earnt a fiver a year.

Back then, a spanner was t'spanner, oil was real oily, and it was bump or be bumped. And at last I knew Darlington.

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by terence bower

One of the factors now I think is there are more professional organisers involved in the UK.Good or bad,they are here to stay.

there are more origanisers who make money out of it/us, whether they are professional or not is a matter of opinion...

[Al Weyman]

I started circuits in 97 and it was about £48 to enter as I recollect, anyhow I would need to earn £4000 a week to be in the same situation the only difference now is I have no mortgage or young kids to raise now so yes pro rata its a hell of a lot dearer. There was a period and I think it started after her ladyship took over at Brands that prices started esculating out of all proportion and neither the clubs or circuit operators seemed to understand the phrase 'In line with current rate of inflation' and always seem to pitch increases way above that with prehaps the exception this year so maybe the message of small grids is getting through. Also the mandatory dating of equipment and specification increases has not helped.

BTW MGDavid have you seen the entry fee for a round of the Heritage series, astronomic if you ask me and way out of my league.

[terence]

Just as an aside,Spa 6Hr meeting for last year the circuit hire was in the region of 12k per hour.I dread to think what Silverstone charges.

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by terence bower

Just as an aside,Spa 6Hr meeting for last year the circuit hire was in the region of 12k per hour.I dread to think what Silverstone charges.

Yet racing at Spa is cheaper than at Brands or Silverstone and I don't think they charge anywhere near that much.

[Rochey]

Originally Posted by Podd37

I'm with Gordon on this one. Over here entry fees went (and I do stand to be corrected) €350 (all layouts)to €375 and up to €500 on a certain layout of circuit this year. I can no longer justify that to either myself or my better half so this year I have given up racing in Ireland

I agree with all of this, although I'm only new to racing as last year was my first season of motor racing in a Styker. I found the thing that killed me was the entry fees, after spending whatever was required to repair the car and just about managing to put food on the table, the entry form would still need to be completed and credit card put on the bottom to pay for the entry (and not forgetting practice either + €130)

Originally Posted by Podd37

It's not all the circuit owners either, but also the extra stuff that racing a car seems to require nowadays what with 'approved' racewear/seats/extinguishers etc etc. While I'm no luddite, 'approved' does seem to mean over-priced and at times unnecessary...eg Rainlights on saloon cars with lights. This year the Time Attack guys are running at various 'normal' race meetings and the interesting thing is that bar an approved helmet and in date belts everything else is free. Yes the car must have a cage buy it can be made by someone themselves under proper guidelines. Race suit is from a list of dates that I am not allowed wear. Hand held ext. Whats the difference between me in my 1300 Fiat and a guy in a 650bhp Subaru? Oh and he won't need to spend silly money renewing thier comp licence either. All he needs is a road licence! And the entry for a similar amoutn of track time? €150!! Nope, can't work it out myself either.....Wonder if ther will be an Historic section anytime soon...
End of Rant.

Don't forget the Hans device needs to be added to the list pretty soon too which aren't cheap.
The time attack does seem like a viable option although to be competitive requires serious cash inputs too as a lot of tuning companies use their time attack cars to showcase their skills and products, some UK companies hire pro drivers too. So I don't know how cheap it would be if you want to win.
The same goes for drifting (where I started), big cash outlay required to be competitive but still more accessable than racing.

I think nowadays racing is for the upper social class, or single people with good credit ratings , I've had to stop after one season as I've become a dad and I too just can't justify the ongoing expenses. Hopefully next season I can get a campaign together but it looks unlikely with the costs.

[rcarr]

The more I read, the more I get wound up! I am meant to take it easy at the moment!

I am unemployed, I can't afford to race, so I don't! My car needs built, I have another 1 for this eventuality but I can't race coz I haven't renewed my licence because I can't afford it and I have been deemed to unwell to drive!

If you are moaning about having to drive 100 miles + away to run in a national series, take a step back and ask why.
If you love racing so much go and race in your local club series, we've done a couple of non-local series and it wasn't worth it, it cost lots of money to fuel the tow cars and drive 150 miles (400 miles in one case) to race for 15-20 mins and not come away with anything, maybe a crappy metal cup if you're lucky. There will always be someone that has a more expensive car or a bigger budget that will hammer everyone else, even in "entry level" series.

As for cost of things, I remember when a can of coke was about 25p. You'll be lucky if you get much change from a £1! Its this damn Labour government. (Tory mode off)

[Alan Raine]

Originally Posted by Chris Y

Eeee, when I were a lad, we started racing before we were even born, and the tracks used to pay us 3 groats and a sausage roll for every race we started. 'Course, in those days, we had 2 day's track time for every shilling we spent, and we only earnt a fiver a year.

Back then, a spanner was t'spanner, oil was real oily, and it was bump or be bumped. And at last I knew Darlington.

And your dad told you about Monty Python

[terence]

Originally Posted by falcemob

Yet racing at Spa is cheaper than at Brands or Silverstone and I don't think they charge anywhere near that much.

The TEAM at Spa consist's mainly of Alain and Vincent,they organize the weekend,then sell off the different slots.That then goes full circle back to the separate race organizers.So I suppose it mainly comes down to the Circuit owners,exit Nichola Fulston,she started the ball rolling!

[Tim Falce]

Terry,
I suppose one thing to take into account with race entry costs at Spa is the fact that the grids are double the size of Brands and always full, I can only think of a small number of series that can muster a full grid at any English track.


rcarr,
Most of us don't go racing with the idea of coming home with a cup although it is nice to win something. If you really want a trophy then £200 would buy something very special and all from the comfort of your own armchair.

[rcarr]

I race for the love of racing Tim. I don't need a trophy to tell me how good I am at racing, I already know!

I just need the money to buy a better car and the means of transporting it so I can start coming down south to try and race with you guys.

[Podd37]

Originally Posted by falcemob

I suppose one thing to take into account with race entry costs at Spa is the fact that the grids are double the size of Brands and always full, I can only think of a small number of series that can muster a full grid at any English track.

Perhaps the keep it cheap and they will come idea (like airlines) would attract bigger grids. I have looked closely at club historic series in Germany and France over the last 2 years and they are much cheaper to run in, usually longer races (which doesn't suit everyone I admit) and attract grids of 20-25 cars at 'normal ' circuits. When some of these series run at Spa or the Ring, they combine together to fill the grid. Indeed CSCC do this when they go foriegn I believe. Big constant is the Entry fees. Very slight rises and in some cases no change at all. It seems to me that we will all buy the 'un-necessary' ancilaries but the constant monthly price of a holiday for our 20 mins is people putting people off.

[Al Weyman]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

I started circuits in 97 and it was about £48 to enter as I recollect, anyhow I would need to earn £4000 a week to be in the same situation the only difference now is I have no mortgage or young kids to raise now so yes pro rata its a hell of a lot dearer. There was a period and I think it started after her ladyship took over at Brands that prices started esculating out of all proportion and neither the clubs or circuit operators seemed to understand the phrase 'In line with current rate of inflation' and always seem to pitch increases way above that with prehaps the exception this year so maybe the message of small grids is getting through. Also the mandatory dating of equipment and specification increases has not helped.

BTW MGDavid have you seen the entry fee for a round of the Heritage series, astronomic if you ask me and way out of my league.

Opps that should have been 87 of course by 97 it was way over a hundred quid!

[terence]

Originally Posted by falcemob

Terry,
I suppose one thing to take into account with race entry costs at Spa is the fact that the grids are double the size of Brands and always full, I can only think of a small number of series that can muster a full grid at any English track.


rcarr,
Mot of us don't go racing with the idea of coming home with a cup although it is nice to win something. If you really want a trophy then £200 would buy something very special and all from the comfort of your own armchair.

Tim,you have a PM.In answer to the Spa thing is not just the Six Hour being relatively cheap at 2k Eu [broken down thats £330 or there abouts per hour].
Overall circuit hire is cheaper though out Europe,like I mentioned earlier,we can blame bloody Fulston for the rises in entry fee's,you only have to go back to just before she took the reignes of the four circuits and remember the entry fee's then.At least we can look forward to one day having a real driver amongst us.

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by Podd37

Perhaps the keep it cheap and they will come idea (like airlines) would attract bigger grids. I have looked closely at club historic series in Germany and France over the last 2 years and they are much cheaper to run in, usually longer races (which doesn't suit everyone I admit) and attract grids of 20-25 cars at 'normal ' circuits. When some of these series run at Spa or the Ring, they combine together to fill the grid. Indeed CSCC do this when they go foriegn I believe. Big constant is the Entry fees. Very slight rises and in some cases no change at all. It seems to me that we will all buy the 'un-necessary' ancilaries but the constant monthly price of a holiday for our 20 mins is people putting people off.

You only need to look at the DNM and the new PBMW/TTRS series for grid sizes. They seem to be catering for the drivers, not the clubs or circuit owners.
The 20 minute holiday price syndrome has hit me this year, I will be very selective with what I do to the point I wont be going to Brands (my local track) with one of my series due to a £300 entry fee.
Instead I will spend my money on couple of trips to Spa which I treat as a mini holiday for around the same cost as a race at Donington.

[rcarr]

Originally Posted by falcemob

I will be very selective with what I do to the point I wont be going to Brands (my local track) with one of my series due to a £300 entry fee.

Tim, you are pointing this out, but you still own and race to what most people would class as a very expensive car (£30k-60k). Unless we suddenly become millionaires over night, never in our wildest dreams could we afford a "play thing" like that. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'd buy a Ligier, a Juno or a Jade for that.

My Dad has a single car in our collection of vintage and classic vehicles that compares to yours in price, its a vintage road-going Rolls Royce.

[Al Weyman]

30 to 60k eh Tim for a glass fibre bodied replica, snatch that man's hand off! ;-)

[terence]

Funny how just about everyone who goes to Spa treats it like a holiday Tim.The bit I really hate about Spa? The trip back here!!

[mountainstar]

One problem with the cost of racing is supply and demand at motor racing circuits. In the USA, road courses are going in all over the country. Most circuits are hired out almost everyday, weather permitting. Circuits have full schedules so they jack the rates up due to demand.

[AU N EGL]

From reading what our European friends pay for entry fees, we have a bargin here in the states. My next two race weekend are $265 and $249. and that is TWO races each weekend, plus qual, and warm-up sessions each day.


Renting tracks is not too difficult, just have to get in any time that is available, and when a weekend opens up and offered, you take it.

[rcarr]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

30 to 60k eh Tim for a glass fibre bodied replica, snatch that man's hand off! ;-)

Al, I'm just going by what I've seen other replicas sell for and its a quite a bit cheaper than a real one!

We thought about making one from a kit from one of our cars that is "kicking about" doing not alot at the moment, but even those prices are prohibitive.

[GORDON STREETER]

Looking at some old race programmes from the early 60s most of the drivers seemed to have "double barreled" names. Perhaps I'll change my name by deed poll to up my credit rating !