BMW in GT - Page 4

broadrun96 · 9 Jun 2021, 22:30 (Ref:4055463)

Quote:

Originally Posted by WyldStallion

There is a fan base I'm sure but I'm sure Corvette C8R dwars the BMW M8 in terms of this. What engine noises did we talk about. Ford, Porsche, and Corvette we always loved. BMW never got any mention. Quiet is boring in auto racing.

The Ford sounds the same as the M6/8 did, meh at speed and GARBAGE at FCY speeds.

Go trackside and see how many flags you see. I can tell you from where I am at Road Atlanta there are PLENTY of BMW flags, probably second to Chevy only. The BMW car corrals sell out as well as Porsche and Corvette each year.

TF110 · 9 Jun 2021, 23:06 (Ref:4055468)

The Z4 had a nice V8 in it, from then on its been a relatively quiet affair.

**chunterer** · 10 Jun 2021, 06:23 (Ref:4055483)

What lump has the M4 GT3 got in it again? V8 or a 6?

Part of the attraction of GT3 is the sound variety but they have been getting more muffled lately.

Ferrari is quiet compared to predecessor, so is Aston. Honda is ok but it's only the Mercs, Bentley, Lexus and Porsche that give out proper loudness atm.

Is it a h&s noise restriction thing?

canaglia · 10 Jun 2021, 07:49 (Ref:4055495)

according to le mans HUD telemetry shown in 2019 qualifying and race, M8 was barely revving up to 6000rpm, so not big surprise if sound was not that great because of this. Opposite to that, Z4 GT3 was extremely loud despite silencers because it was revving up to >9000rpm.
All modern turbo racing cars, from f1 to gt4 have a poor sound.

Pandamasque · 10 Jun 2021, 09:34 (Ref:4055503)

Quote:

Originally Posted by broadrun96

The Ford sounds the same as the M6/8 did, meh at speed and GARBAGE at FCY speeds.

Sorry, but if you're talking about the V6 GTE car you must be a little deaf. It's NOTHING like BMW turbo V8s. The GT sounds similar to Porsche 956/962 and some other 6-cyl turbo Group C cars, while the turbo V8s from BMW are always virtually inaudible in a broadcast. I'd say it's the most uninspiring engine note in high level racing today, and that includes TCR cars, and probably the N24 little Dacia that could.

People, tell me I'm mad and they sound the same
https://youtu.be/x95ViD9AUsA?t=37
https://youtu.be/378t7oVbOa8?t=32

The M4 GT3 clearly has a similar/same turbo V8
https://youtu.be/akkZhqOS8xM

canaglia · 10 Jun 2021, 09:49 (Ref:4055505)

Even if they changed engine layout, according to the sound I think M4 gt3 will keep on being an extreme lowrev car with the usual huge 2bar range turbo boost, basically like M6.
Miss the old time and the brutal sound of the C6R GT1

broadrun96 · 10 Jun 2021, 11:18 (Ref:4055519)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

Sorry, but if you're talking about the V6 GTE car you must be a little deaf. It's NOTHING like BMW turbo V8s. The GT sounds similar to Porsche 956/962 and some other 6-cyl turbo Group C cars, while the turbo V8s from BMW are always virtually inaudible in a broadcast. I'd say it's the most uninspiring engine note in high level racing today, and that includes TCR cars, and probably the N24 little Dacia that could.

People, tell me I'm mad and they sound the same
https://youtu.be/x95ViD9AUsA?t=37
https://youtu.be/378t7oVbOa8?t=32

The M4 GT3 clearly has a similar/same turbo V8
https://youtu.be/akkZhqOS8xM

Standing trackside it's near enough as to be pretty similar without seeing the car. More than a few races of that, both sound like garbage.

Oh, and had twice annual hearing checks at my previous employer due to noise regs. No hearing loss and tested well across all levels.

And the M4 GT3 uses a straight 6 according to BMW Motorsports. 2.993L to be specific, twin turbo P58 straight 6.

WyldStallion · 10 Jun 2021, 13:17 (Ref:4055540)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

What lump has the M4 GT3 got in it again? V8 or a 6?

Part of the attraction of GT3 is the sound variety but they have been getting more muffled lately.

Ferrari is quiet compared to predecessor, so is Aston. Honda is ok but it's only the Mercs, Bentley, Lexus and Porsche that give out proper loudness atm.

Is it a h&s noise restriction thing?

Well if I rank best engine noises currently in GT3. It is 1) Lambo/Audi (easily) 2) Porsche 3) Mercedes. BMW, Acura, and Ferrari too quiet for me. At least the 488 and NSX are a good looking cars, the M6 never appealed much. M4 GT3 is a step up in the looks department from both the M6 and M8. There has never been a BMW race car that made go "wow" though.

**BertMk2** · 10 Jun 2021, 13:33 (Ref:4055546)

Quote:

Originally Posted by WyldStallion

There has never been a BMW race car that made go "wow" though.

The BMW GT cars always seem a little bit souless - impressive machinery but clinical, not cars you could really feel any affection for, admire - certainly, like - not so much.

Maybe the Procar M1 and the "batmobile" are exceptions. The class 1 DTM cars were also beasts. The 3 series S2000 car is another that despite being hugely successful appears utterly souless (although to be fair there aren't many S2000 cars that really grabbed the attention).

Speed-King · 10 Jun 2021, 14:16 (Ref:4055550)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BertMk2

The BMW GT cars always seem a little bit souless - impressive machinery but clinical, not cars you could really feel any affection for, admire - certainly, like - not so much.

Maybe the Procar M1 and the "batmobile" are exceptions. The class 1 DTM cars were also beasts. The 3 series S2000 car is another that despite being hugely successful appears utterly souless (although to be fair there aren't many S2000 cars that really grabbed the attention).

The "cheater" E46 M3 GTR with the V8 was pretty cool, I'd say.

canaglia · 10 Jun 2021, 14:23 (Ref:4055552)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BertMk2

The BMW GT cars always seem a little bit souless

maybe because, at their core, M3, M4, M6 and M8 aren't actually GT cars but high performance packages of 4 doors designed sedan cars?

canaglia · 10 Jun 2021, 17:19 (Ref:4055588)

BMW in GT, BMW in prototypes

https://www.instagram.com/markusflas...dium=copy_link

Pandamasque · 10 Jun 2021, 18:11 (Ref:4055601)

Now they need to find out which P2 manufacturer will have a high-nose chassis, so BMW has more space for THE GRILLE.

Quote:

Originally Posted by broadrun96

And the M4 GT3 uses a straight 6 according to BMW Motorsports. 2.993L to be specific, twin turbo P58 straight 6.

The poor thing is so muffled, the normally sonorous straight 6 character is missing.

The E46 M3 GTR was definitely not soulless. Most pre-Bangle era race cars from them were quite interesting. Under Bangle things just got bloated, which isn't a good look for any race car. Although the Z4 GT3 was quite interesting, it stood out in the class both with its looks and sound.

**FIRE** · 10 Jun 2021, 18:50 (Ref:4055610)

Quote:

Originally Posted by WyldStallion

Does BMW have a large fan base outside of Germany? I think their big hulky looking cars with the quiet noise has kept the vehicles from being spectacular from a sportscar standpoint. Thus keeping t hem from having a large loyal fan base in racing terms. I can't imagine they have a fan bases anywhere near Porsche or Corvette or Ferrari levels.

Strange question. Of course BMW has fans outside Germany.

broadrun96 · 10 Jun 2021, 19:01 (Ref:4055614)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BertMk2

The BMW GT cars always seem a little bit souless - impressive machinery but clinical, not cars you could really feel any affection for, admire - certainly, like - not so much.

Maybe the Procar M1 and the "batmobile" are exceptions. The class 1 DTM cars were also beasts. The 3 series S2000 car is another that despite being hugely successful appears utterly souless (although to be fair there aren't many S2000 cars that really grabbed the attention).

I would say the E30 DTMs were probably the last of the attention grabbers from BMW, some of the various 02 Series cars were nice as club racers and smaller cars as well.

The last attention getters for them were only in the oh dear god what are they doing manner. Z4 with various wide and wider bodykits, M6 making everything think it's barge racing and the M8 proving it is.

I think they may be better served with a 4 Series, or heaven forbid racing the sportscarish Z4, in GT3/4 and having an LMDh program until they can run their beloved hydrogen program in a prototype. The cars are too much like me, started out small and nimble and now, well not so small but at they're still pretty nimble

**BertMk2** · 11 Jun 2021, 15:41 (Ref:4055751)

Quote:

Originally Posted by broadrun96

, M6 making everything think it's barge racing and the M8 proving it is.

The same can be levelled at the Bentley though - that's effectively a stately home on wheels - but the Continental is one of my favourite GT3 cars (possibly only beaten by the Morgan). The Nissan GTR isn't exactly small either come to think of it.

broadrun96 · 11 Jun 2021, 18:38 (Ref:4055771)

Yes, but don't point out things that ruin an internet argument, I WANT TO BE ANGRY dagnamit.

But yes, it's not like other cars are that small. BUT Bentley should be racing a car the size of a county with an engine taken from an airplane or boat and wood grain, butler and drinks cart would be ok as well.

canaglia · 11 Jun 2021, 18:45 (Ref:4055776)

it isn't even a matter of size, the real issue is that, unluckly or luckly, a car doesn't need to be a "GT" to be homologated as GT3...
is chevrolet camaro a GT car? I don't think so, but there was a camaro gt3 back in 2012-2014 anyway.

Pandamasque · 11 Jun 2021, 22:15 (Ref:4055789)

Quote:

Originally Posted by canaglia

it isn't even a matter of size, the real issue is that, unluckly or luckly, a car doesn't need to be a "GT" to be homologated as GT3...
is chevrolet camaro a GT car? I don't think so, but there was a camaro gt3 back in 2012-2014 anyway.

A Camaro is more of a grand tourer than say a Porsche 904 or a Saleen S7

In racing GT was always a very broad term which covered all manner of 2-door production cars, with or without a roof, from tiny open top sports cars to rear-engined sports cars, mid-engined sports cars and supercars, actual grand tourers as well as pony cars and everything in between. And early on some of the same cars also raced in "touring" events.

At some point there was a place for BMW M1 and an E21 320i. What's wrong with that?

canaglia · 12 Jun 2021, 04:23 (Ref:4055814)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

A Camaro is more of a grand tourer than say a Porsche 904 or a Saleen S7

In racing GT was always a very broad term which covered all manner of 2-door production cars, with or without a roof, from tiny open top sports cars to rear-engined sports cars, mid-engined sports cars and supercars, actual grand tourers as well as pony cars and everything in between. And early on some of the same cars also raced in "touring" events.

At some point there was a place for BMW M1 and an E21 320i. What's wrong with that?

Sorry but hardly disagree... looking back to late '90/early '2000 Saleen S7 was one of the most GTesque car around, the TT version was basically an hypercar using nowadays standards.
Anyway speaking about BMW in general, my opinion is that M3,4,5,6,7,8 aren't actually GT cars but racing cars derivated from high performance packages of designed 4doors sedan.
Imagine if audi would introduce a RS5 gt3 instead of R8 gt3, it would be basically the same.

Pandamasque · 12 Jun 2021, 21:34 (Ref:4056003)

Quote:

Originally Posted by canaglia

Sorry but hardly disagree... looking back to late '90/early '2000 Saleen S7 was one of the most GTesque car around, the TT version was basically an hypercar using nowadays standards.

But a hypercar is not a GT by definition. A classic Grand Touring car is an FR coupe, most likely 2+2. Think "DB" Astons, Ferrari 365 GTB, Lamborghini Espada, Porsche 928, the modern Bentley Continental or Ferrari Lusso.

The Saleen S7 was hardly a cross-continent road trip car!

canaglia · 12 Jun 2021, 21:49 (Ref:4056008)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

But a hypercar is not a GT by definition.

not to mention that the definition of hypercar changes according to the times and to the mass cognition (f40 was an hypercar in late '80, not anymore now) but wasn't that the point of my statement.
THere are cars that are designed to born with a GT attitude, other cars are designed to be something else and only later maybe "updated" to be a GT-like car. So if you ask me, are bmw cars GT? my answer would be no. It's my opinion of course.

broadrun96 · 13 Jun 2021, 00:39 (Ref:4056043)

They aren't but them not being one does not make a S7 a GT. Somehow GT became sportscar and the grand touring idea was completely lost. Little in racing would be in that class now in GTE/3. Ferrari would be something bigger than the 488 and same for Aston, Porsche is a middle ground there but you aren't travelling with what you can fit in the front, Acura, Audi, Nissan nah. Mercedes and Lexus you could argue, MB I can go with but the Lexus well see BMW. Bentley no problem, and I could accept Corvette as the cheap entry model

canaglia · 13 Jun 2021, 08:29 (Ref:4056064)

all these divergent opinions confirm somehow there aren't fixed canons for the meaning of "GT" nowadays, let's put it this way...
among cars like 488, 911, huracan etc.. a car like M4 is a little alien because is from a very different automotive segment.

Koenigsegg · 13 Jun 2021, 09:35 (Ref:4056071)

Can't we just appreciate a big manufacturer like BMW is willing to race its models in the biggest GT class around right now? And they're doing it with one of their sportiest models.