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Old 19 Sep 2022, 13:53 (Ref:4126497)   #1096
V8 Fireworks
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V8 Fireworks should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
The new Mustang:



On the Camaro side, the plot thickens:

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New rumors point to Chevy using the Camaro name for an electric sedan.
https://www.motor1.com/news/524557/c...an-renderings/

Have Supercars made the wrong choice by sticking with ICE at a time when both the Chevrolet Camaro and Dodge Challenger will soon be transitioning to electric?!

If the Mustang is the only remaining ICE muscle car in 2024, wouldn't a one-make Mustang series be more authentic?

Meanwhile Ford Performance are releasing a Mustang GT3, which could race neatly against the BMW M4 GT3 and others, and arguably make Gen 3 regulations redundant anyway...
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Old 19 Sep 2022, 21:33 (Ref:4126525)   #1097
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Bring it on! Now!
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Old 20 Sep 2022, 05:15 (Ref:4126550)   #1098
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If the Mustang is the only remaining ICE muscle car in 2024, wouldn't a one-make Mustang series be more authentic?
Who cares what the production car has? They can still race a V8 even if the car is electric.

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Meanwhile Ford Performance are releasing a Mustang GT3, which could race neatly against the BMW M4 GT3 and others, and arguably make Gen 3 regulations redundant anyway...
The fact that you still think GT3 would render Gen3 redundant shows you have no clue at all.

GT3 cars cost an absurd amount - many of them easily in $1m territory. They are much more fragile and less repairable than any Supercar. They have yearly upgrades that cost equally as much and cars are rendered uncompetitive very often after a new car appears.

Most importantly moving to GT3 would never be considered for Supercars as most of the teams are manufacturing businesses that make stuff to go racing. If you don't understand that now you should really stop commenting.
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Old 20 Sep 2022, 11:27 (Ref:4126574)   #1099
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GT3 cars cost an absurd amount - many of them easily in $1m territory.
The Gen 3 kit is rumoured to cost $600,000 AUD before labour, wildly missing the cost target.

Thinking manufacturer representation from the likes of BMW, Nissan, Lexus and Mercedes as you find in GT3 is unimportant is what is truly missing the point!

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Most importantly moving to GT3 would never be considered for Supercars as most of the teams are manufacturing businesses that make stuff to go racing. If you don't understand that now you should really stop commenting.
Lol. Yeah all these teams like Matt Stone Racing, PremiAir Racing and Team 18 with their big fabrication shops... (Not!)

I'm all for a return to free chassis design, but the idea teams are allowed to design their own chassis, suspension, pedal boxes, uprights, throttle bodies, dry sumps etc under Gen 3 is demonstrably wrong. You have two control engine suppliers and nearly all control parts for the entire car...

Pray tell, what parts ARE the CNC machines at Brad Jones Racing or Grove Racing actually allowed to make under Gen 3? Certainly not the front uprights anymore, nor the dry sumps, nor the throttle bodies, nor...

Last edited by V8 Fireworks; 20 Sep 2022 at 11:33.
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Old 20 Sep 2022, 11:51 (Ref:4126575)   #1100
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Thinking manufacturer representation from the likes of BMW, Nissan, Lexus and Mercedes as you find in GT3 is unimportant is what is truly missing the point!
Manufacturers are not represented in GT3 - it's illegal.

Manufacturers develop GT3 vehicles to sell to CUSTOMERS, and make a profit doing so.

With recent currency movements a competitive GT3 car will surely be in the $1.2m range, and if you crash one properly you need another one.

Let's not forget even at B12hr this year 2 entire new cars were required after Practice 1.

How many COTF cars have been written off and could not be repaired cost effectively? The up front purchase price is somewhat irrelevant when you realise that current front runners are running cars 3+ seasons old.
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Old 20 Sep 2022, 12:25 (Ref:4126580)   #1101
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So you don't have info that the likes of Grove, BJR, Tickford and WAU will be equally involved in the mass production of Gen 3 parts as you didn't mention it?

That's a big worry that the production of parts will be unreasnably concentrated at PACE and 888.

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Manufacturers are not represented in GT3 - it's illegal.

Manufacturers develop GT3 vehicles to sell to CUSTOMERS, and make a profit doing so.
Yes, and the Australian teams could build GT3 (or TCR) cars and sell them *worldwide*! E.g., 888 could design and sell the official Camaro GT3 car, Grove could design and build the official Nissan Z GT3 car etc. That could create so much revenue!

Sure beats forcing Super2 teams to upgrade and buy Gen2 cars to create revenue, when the Super2 teams can't afford them and would rather stick to the trusty Gen1 cars. This latter choice seems a far less ethical business model.
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Old 20 Sep 2022, 13:32 (Ref:4126583)   #1102
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Who cares what the production car has? They can still race a V8 even if the car is electric.
If the car manufacturer does not want to have their car raced with an ICE what happens then? More importantly it seems fairly easy to assume that the four or two door sedan/coupe is just about dead anyway so where does that leave racing series such as SC?
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Old 20 Sep 2022, 21:44 (Ref:4126633)   #1103
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Came here to make a similar post.

The SC model is dying and will be replaced. The replacement may not yet be on the horizon but we all know it is lurking there waiting to be discovered. Maintaining the status quo is not a long term option, it will require a root and branch overhaul, possibly replacement by something entirely different.

There will be winners and losers, and the current ownership model is not conducive to that sort of revolutionaly change.
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Old 20 Sep 2022, 22:55 (Ref:4126637)   #1104
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Yes, and the Australian teams could build GT3 (or TCR) cars and sell them *worldwide*! E.g., 888 could design and sell the official Camaro GT3 car, Grove could design and build the official Nissan Z GT3 car etc. That could create so much revenue!
Pure, absolute fantasy. Not going to happen.

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If the car manufacturer does not want to have their car raced with an ICE what happens then? More importantly it seems fairly easy to assume that the four or two door sedan/coupe is just about dead anyway so where does that leave racing series such as SC?
So they don't then. Lots of manufacturers are promoting EV racing but nobody watches it.

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The SC model is dying and will be replaced. The replacement may not yet be on the horizon but we all know it is lurking there waiting to be discovered. Maintaining the status quo is not a long term option, it will require a root and branch overhaul, possibly replacement by something entirely different.
People have been making this claim for more than 20 years.

Yet the "dinosaur" has outlasted every other comparable racing category by a factor of 2 or 3 times.

Just like the decline of Rome lasted longer than the entire lifespan of any other society you could compare it to.
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Old 21 Sep 2022, 01:34 (Ref:4126645)   #1105
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So they don't then. Lots of manufacturers are promoting EV racing but nobody watches it.
No I did not mention BEV's at all the question is what does SC use when no one makes a sedan or coupe as has always been used in the past. At that stage there will be no US sourced sedan to base the series on only SUV styled cars and this is a trend worldwide. Not too far into the future the sedan will not exist in the US and Europe will only have a smattering of 2 door sports cars none of which could be remotely suitable and I can't see those manufacturers being even remotely interested as the cars have the engine at the wrong end of the car. I have said it before, reality is about to smack SC in the face in the not too distant future. It sems to me that the only thing SC and also NASCAR can do is invent their only generic bodies that are a race car and nothing else which would not be too hard but that goes against the ethos of racing recognisable cars that can sort of be related to road cars we can buy.
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Old 21 Sep 2022, 07:11 (Ref:4126656)   #1106
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.. and probably kills a lot of sponsorship dollars too.
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Old 21 Sep 2022, 13:29 (Ref:4126717)   #1107
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Pure, absolute fantasy. Not going to happen.
If the likes of Grove Racing and Tickford Racing don't back themselves to build better customer race cars than JAS Motorsport or M-Sport, what can you do?

Regardless the market is there to sell mass-produced customer GT3, TCR or Rally2 cars and exists. They could also invest in an autoclave and take on the likes of Oreca and Multimatic in the LMP2 and Formula 4 market. It's the perfect way to have machine, composite and fabrication shops ticking over with abundant work.
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Old 21 Sep 2022, 23:28 (Ref:4126774)   #1108
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.. and probably kills a lot of sponsorship dollars too.
Thinking a bit more about this, a tube frame with your choice of old/current style body (have to be some limits for a spec series), current engines (or some other spec engine(s)) might be a basis. Plenty of expertise here in building tube frames with plastic bodies, that's pretty much the current formula. The old Ford/Holden/whatever rivalries could be recreated/created and effectively make it a nostalgia series, with added on-track drama.

That would keep open the potential for support of one sort or another from manufacturers.

Recognise that road relevance is dying fast as a foundation for an ICE race series, and if you want to base it on road cars the only option available is to look back for inspiration.

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Old 22 Sep 2022, 02:15 (Ref:4126781)   #1109
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It is my understanding that any car design that SC uses must be OK with the owner of the design and this might present some hurdles to using retro designs when sedans fall totally off the planet. The only suitable car programmed to go through to the late 2020's is the Mustang and I would not bet on that as Ford have split the company into two entirely separate divisions and if the ICE division dies sooner then no more Mustang. Ford have made it very clear that they are getting out of the passenger car market and instead concentrating on the commercial BEV market along with sport trucks and they are selling everything they make. Stellantis have killed the Challenger and by all reports the Camaro is finished as well. The move away from the 4 door / 2 door sedan / coupe will force a big change in motorsport where that style of car has been the used for racing but I suppose the bright thing about all this is we are not there yet.
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Old 22 Sep 2022, 02:25 (Ref:4126783)   #1110
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... I suppose the bright thing about all this is we are not there yet.
Yes. Small consolation for us petrolheads, but we will take what we can where we can ...
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