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Old 21 Sep 2022, 12:29 (Ref:4126703)   #211
Evantra
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Evantra should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridEvantra should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I assume the MINI JCWs are connected to the Coopers? In which case it would make sense for both to be a part of the TOCA package permanently? (same with the Porsches, although I think neither would be a good addition)

Have to have faith that Gow isn't going to let the Ginettas go without something big lined up to replace it.
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Old 21 Sep 2022, 12:42 (Ref:4126709)   #212
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The downside of the other minis is that they’re not current cars and are nothing more than a club championship. It’s nice once in a while but as a permanent addition, who really wants to see 20 year old, 115bhp cars?
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Old 21 Sep 2022, 13:22 (Ref:4126713)   #213
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The downside of the other minis is that they’re not current cars and are nothing more than a club championship. It’s nice once in a while but as a permanent addition, who really wants to see 20 year old, 115bhp cars?
And they can't manage five minutes without a considerable accident.

If they want a replacement junior series, the Saxos are the next biggest I would've thought? Problem is there that the cars are 20 years old.
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Old 21 Sep 2022, 13:26 (Ref:4126715)   #214
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Fiesta Juniors is an option but they use ST150s, which are at best, 14 years old.

There’s plenty of cars which could work for a new junior series, it’s just that none of them have existing support yet.
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Old 21 Sep 2022, 13:26 (Ref:4126716)   #215
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Perhaps it is time for an obvious BTCC 'feeder' series to be part of the package?

The return of the B-TEC Development Series that struggled to get off the ground in 2017.....
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Old 21 Sep 2022, 13:57 (Ref:4126722)   #216
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Originally Posted by Evantra View Post
I assume the MINI JCWs are connected to the Coopers? In which case it would make sense for both to be a part of the TOCA package permanently? (same with the Porsches, although I think neither would be a good addition)

Have to have faith that Gow isn't going to let the Ginettas go without something big lined up to replace it.
Yes they are connected and share a website. I believe the MINI Challenge UK (JCW and Cooper) brand is run by Anthony and Justina Williams (owners of Excelr8).

I do think Mr Gow has something up his sleeve... I would anticipate an announcement this weekend. Possibly on the Friday/Saturday or even live on ITV4 on Sunday in an interview with Steve Rider.
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Old 21 Sep 2022, 14:04 (Ref:4126726)   #217
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Perhaps it is time for an obvious BTCC 'feeder' series to be part of the package?

The return of the B-TEC Development Series that struggled to get off the ground in 2017.....
Or even a series for lightly-modified versions of the road cars upon which the NGTC cars are based. Similar to the old Class B/Production Class of 2000-2003. Also similar to the old Pirelli World Challenge TC (now TC America) classes on the GT World Challenge America support bill.
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Old 21 Sep 2022, 14:09 (Ref:4126727)   #218
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Just read this from Graham Goodwin at Daily Sportscar, with regard to Ginetta

"multiple paddock sources have confirmed to DSC that the move was prompted in no small part by significant increases in entry and other fees suggested by TOCA for 2023 including a very significant hike in the fees for ITV coverage going forward."
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Old 21 Sep 2022, 14:17 (Ref:4126728)   #219
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Or even a series for lightly-modified versions of the road cars upon which the NGTC cars are based. Similar to the old Class B/Production Class of 2000-2003. Also similar to the old Pirelli World Challenge TC (now TC America) classes on the GT World Challenge America support bill.
Possibly. I could get on board with that.

My thinking is around a series that (if 2023 was the date):
  • Featured NGTC builds over 5 years age.
  • Models that are not currently on the grid.
  • Non-hybrid PU, providing circa 200bhp.
  • Drivers must meet the current Jack Sears criteria.

Possibly even make it the Jack Sears series?

From a rough estimate (ignoring damaged and christmas-tree'd cars) the following would be available:
Alfa Romeo Giulietta
Audi A4
Audi S3
BMW 125
Chevrolet Cruze
Honda Civic FK2
Mercedes Benz A-Class
MG6
Proton Persona / Gen-2
Subaru Levorg
Toyota Avensis
Vauxhall Insignia
Volkswagen CC
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Old 21 Sep 2022, 14:29 (Ref:4126729)   #220
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Only got to read the press releases about the ambitions of the Caterham series when they moved to BARC for 2023 to see where this is going.
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Old 21 Sep 2022, 14:32 (Ref:4126731)   #221
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I hope it’s not Caterhams. I’m strongly of the opinion that anything on the TOCA tour should have a roof and doors.
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Old 21 Sep 2022, 16:34 (Ref:4126743)   #222
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Originally Posted by SSmith View Post
Just read this from Graham Goodwin at Daily Sportscar, with regard to Ginetta

"multiple paddock sources have confirmed to DSC that the move was prompted in no small part by significant increases in entry and other fees suggested by TOCA for 2023 including a very significant hike in the fees for ITV coverage going forward."
Someone has to pay if TOCA are looking for a more permanent move to ITV1
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Old 21 Sep 2022, 17:21 (Ref:4126745)   #223
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Originally Posted by crmalcolm View Post
Possibly. I could get on board with that.

My thinking is around a series that (if 2023 was the date):
  • Featured NGTC builds over 5 years age.
  • Models that are not currently on the grid.
  • Non-hybrid PU, providing circa 200bhp.
  • Drivers must meet the current Jack Sears criteria.
Something like that would great, like GT4 is to GT3. But as you said, given the BTEC series will stillborn, and NGTC entrants in TCR UK were short lived, I think it would be unlikely.

Another possibility that might prove popular is the Thundersaloons elsewhere on the BARC package. Possibly too 'clubby' though, and if it's down to an amount of money that Ginetta couldn't stump up, that really limits things.
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Old 21 Sep 2022, 17:45 (Ref:4126748)   #224
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Originally Posted by Evantra View Post
Something like that would great, like GT4 is to GT3. But as you said, given the BTEC series will stillborn, and NGTC entrants in TCR UK were short lived, I think it would be unlikely.

Another possibility that might prove popular is the Thundersaloons elsewhere on the BARC package. Possibly too 'clubby' though, and if it's down to an amount of money that Ginetta couldn't stump up, that really limits things.
Oh - it's absolutely a pipedream.

I'm sure Mr Gow has a good idea of what awaits us - but personally I don't see an obvious candidate that fits the bill.

The one thing that does cross my mind - if we are really talking about a series that is willing to pay money to be live on the main ITV channel - is something that might seem 'exotic' compared to the current package. Not sure what that would be though......
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Old 21 Sep 2022, 19:41 (Ref:4126754)   #225
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I hope it’s not Caterhams. I’m strongly of the opinion that anything on the TOCA tour should have a roof and doors.

I'd rather have Caterhams, GB3, GB4 and whatever else doesn't have a roof and doors than another dull Porsche series with about 12 cars in the grid, most of which in seperate classes so its less a race, more just turning laps....

Saying that, maybe there's a slot for a classic series.
That BARC Trucks stream has a multi-era classic touring car racing championship, and a lot of touring car series have a classics championship on their package, so pipe dreams aside, could it happen?
(Answer: No, but it'd be nice!)

Come back Clio Cup, it's not been the same since you left!
(Seriously though, do come back Clio Cup if possible )
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