V6 Engines for 2014

[Marbot]

The crowds may be somewhat disappointed with IndyCars too. Since they are also going down the road of smaller capacity V6 engines.

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by Marbot

Apparently, some circuits will switch to Indy cars if F1 introduces its 'green' engines.

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/...-hits-F1-races

This is just complete nonsense and will never happen...

I cannot for the life of me understand what the problem is now..

[Marbot]

Another article about the circuits finding a voice for themselves.

http://www.pitpass.com/44037-Unifyin...in-F1s-history

And another.

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpa...s_art_id=44034

Maybe it might just happen?........But probably not. Jean Todt must be feeling like all of the world is against him, right now.

I should add that according to the BBC race forum, Adrian Newey said that rpm limits for the new V6 engine could be as high as 16,000 rpm.

[gregc]

What I don't get is Bernie et al going on about the sound - I remember the old 1.5 turbos sounding pretty good back in the day.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bE13zilzvXE

[Marbot]

Benetton 4 cylinder turbo warming up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1UZ3Vlox_M&NR=1

hmmm....It's not really got the soul of a V8, V10 or V12 has it. But it's how it used to be.

[JeremySmith]

It is a bit tame...I think it was Joe Saward that said he had heard a simulation of how the 4 cylinder turbo would sound and thought it sounded fine..

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

It is a bit tame...I think it was Joe Saward that said he had heard a simulation of how the 4 cylinder turbo would sound, and said that he thought is sounded fine..

They do sound fine, just not all of the time. A lot of the time they sound like an old Honda Civic with its exhaust removed.....and then the turbo comes in!

Teams seem happy with V6, but with some tweaking here and there.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/92664

[Bonanza]

Originally Posted by Marbot

Apparently, some circuits will switch to Indy cars if F1 introduces its 'green' engines.

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/...-hits-F1-races

I bet at least 95% of that article is complete nonsense. Why would Silverstone spend ages negotiating a new 17 year contract to then cancel and instead of looking at IndyCars? It's a british newspaper....they probably don't know the first thing bout IndyCars.

oh, and the V6 turbos will be fine.

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by Bonanza

I bet at least 95% of that article is complete nonsense. Why would Silverstone spend ages negotiating a new 17 year contract to then cancel and instead of looking at IndyCars? It's a british newspaper....they probably don't know the first thing bout IndyCars.

oh, and the V6 turbos will be fine.

This is the way I feel, another piece of journalistic rubbish..

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Bonanza

I bet at least 95% of that article is complete nonsense. Why would Silverstone spend ages negotiating a new 17 year contract to then cancel and instead of looking at IndyCars? It's a british newspaper....they probably don't know the first thing bout IndyCars.

oh, and the V6 turbos will be fine.

Well it is the Daily/Sunday Express and don't know the first thing about anything.

[duke_toaster]

To be honest, from the onboard shot I prefer the sound of the Renault V6 turbo to the modern cars. More roar, less whine.

[Marbot]

With regard to the Daily Express story, and the comments made by Ron Walker in the pitpass articles. It now seems very strange that the teams are asking for the rev limit to be raised from 12,000 rpm to something closer to 18,000 rpm for the V6 engines.

Further to that:

http://www.pitpass.com/44056-Exclusi...000rpm-engines

What's this then? Engine-gate!

[TF110]

Seems serious. I see their worries as well. Diminishing F1, the spectacle is the noise, the sound plays a huge part. Enough with the 'green' crap IMO. The cars don't pollute nearly that much. They race for 2 hours 19 or 20 times a year. Wow. That's not so bad. The green should be applied but not at the expense of performance or spectacle! I wonder how this will play out. Sounds interesting. Without the tracks, what is F1 to run on? More Tilkedromes it seems. Maybe he'll make ones with 1.5km straights for DRS zones, create some more 'passing'. If there's any truth to this, it's a big deal.

[ujoint]

FIA bring back some bigger engines. Like they are going to that.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by TF110

Seems serious. I see their worries as well. Diminishing F1, the spectacle is the noise, the sound plays a huge part. Enough with the 'green' crap IMO. The cars don't pollute nearly that much. They race for 2 hours 19 or 20 times a year. Wow. That's not so bad. The green should be applied but not at the expense of performance or spectacle! I wonder how this will play out. Sounds interesting. Without the tracks, what is F1 to run on? More Tilkedromes it seems. Maybe he'll make ones with 1.5km straights for DRS zones, create some more 'passing'. If there's any truth to this, it's a big deal.

I'm sure plenty of Grade 2 and 3 tracks would love to have F1.

[TF110]

Love to have them and having enough money to have them are two different things. Plus the facilities and all that other crap? Going to be pretty hard.

[Marbot]

The WMSC fax vote, with regard to 2014 engine specification, happens today. So it will be interesting to see the reaction of Mr Walker to that. I think the reason for the 12,000 rpm limit was so that engine manufacturers would no longer need to use pneumatic valve systems to open and close the valves.

[Teretonga]

On one hand the FIA plays the grandmother of the sport, wringing its hands over costs and the need for cost reductions. The teams are the grandsons worried about their inheritance and always complaining that they aren't listened to and that they are the inheritors so they should have some say.

Now the circuit promoters are playing the wicked uncle who comes in and thrws a spanner in the works by threatening to take away the childrens toys and go and play in someone elses sandpit....
And in the middle of it all sits the grey-mop haired brat playing the innocent little boy he is as he manipulates and plays off one side of the family against the other.

Its a pantomime, a show, an East London theatre drama, and a television soap opera, all in one.
Unfortunately its all becoming a little boring and the viewers just might start deserting it in droves. Oh. Its all about motor racing, but at times you'd never know.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

Oh. Its all about motor racing, but at times you'd never know.

If it was all about motor racing we should be happy to see Hamilton, Vettel, alonso et al, racing around in Superleague cars with their gloriously noisy, 12,000 rpm limited, V12 engines. But we would hear from the manufacturers that this isn't what F1 is about, and that new technologies should be embraced. The fans, through some sort of misplaced loyalty, would probably agree with FOTA. Thereby shooting themselves in the foot.

Interesting what Adrian Newey said on the BBC forum, that the original 4 cylinder rule was put in place to attract Audi/VW into F1, but they have since declined to commit. Manufacturers messing around with the sport, as usual.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Marbot

If it was all about motor racing we should be happy to see Hamilton, Vettel, alonso et al, racing around in Superleague cars with their gloriously noisy, 12,000 rpm limited, V12 engines. But we would hear from the manufacturers that this isn't what F1 is about, and that new technologies should be embraced. The fans, through some sort of misplaced loyalty, would probably agree with FOTA. Thereby shooting themselves in the foot.

Interesting what Adrian Newey said on the BBC forum, that the original 4 cylinder rule was put in place to attract Audi/VW into F1, but they have since declined to commit. Manufacturers messing around with the sport, as usual.

If you took the top 10 drivers and put them in Super League and gave Superleague FTA coverage world wide on good circuits just about nobody would even know or care that F1 had died. Ditto the aerodynamics!

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by wnut

If you took the top 10 drivers and put them in Super League and gave Superleague FTA coverage world wide on good circuits just about nobody would even know or care that F1 had died. Ditto the aerodynamics!

It's a shame that Superleague has such a poor concept (soccer team related) because the cars are actually quite awesome things to see and hear.

[Crazy_Pigal]

15000 rpm, I can't see the why the manufactures have asked for this...If they're planning to control power by limiting fuel flow then there's no more power to be had by revving the engine higher, peak power will naturally fall at lower revs as the friction losses increase with speed & they'll have a turbo or two to help....
I wonder if they've quietly dumped the fuel flow limit as well??? In which case Bernie really has got his way!

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Crazy_Pigal

15000 rpm, I can't see the why the manufactures have asked for this...If they're planning to control power by limiting fuel flow then there's no more power to be had by revving the engine higher, peak power will naturally fall at lower revs as the friction losses increase with speed & they'll have a turbo or two to help....
I wonder if they've quietly dumped the fuel flow limit as well??? In which case Bernie really has got his way!

I did say that perhaps the main reason for the 12,000 rpm limit was that it would eradicate the need for pneumatic valve systems, and could perhaps pave the way for something a bit more road car relevant instead. Sometimes you have to go backwards to go forwards.

[phoenix]

Originally Posted by Marbot

I did say that perhaps the main reason for the 12,000 rpm limit was that it would eradicate the need for pneumatic valve systems

If that were the main reason, wouldn't it be simpler and more straightforward to ban pneumatic valve systems - or any system other than conventional valve springs?

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by phoenix

If that were the main reason, wouldn't it be simpler and more straightforward to ban pneumatic valve systems - or any system other than conventional valve springs?

If you just ban pneumatic valve systems or whatever, then some engine manufacturers (Ferrari, Mercedes probably) are just going to spend a cart load of money on just getting a few more rpms out of their conventionally valve sprung engines.

An rpm limit saves a lot of wasted time, money and effort on something that gains no one anything much at all in terms of worthwhile technological breakthroughs. 18 - 20,000 rpm engines aren't much use anywhere else other than in motorsport. Neither are 12,000 rpm engines, come to that! (I have ridden road bikes with 16,000 rpm red lines, but only the word 'gutless' springs to mind about those, and the engines wear out like you wouldn't believe!).

It would also stop some engine manufacturers (Cosworth) from leaving the sport because they see no reason to keep up with the spending that other engine manufacturers do to gain a few extra bhp.