[BTCC] BTCC 2021

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

Yes, but as the electrical gubbins is also supplying additional power, that should more than negate the weight disadvantage. Do the hybrid cars have less petrol power than the current (no pun intended) ones do? I seem to recall that the amount of electrical assistance available will be used instead of the success ballast.
It will be interesting to see what gamed TOCA play to ensure that AJ is kept completely out of the way of the real race action (anywhere within the race).

The same 300bhp is available from the ICE.
The hybrid adds an extra 40bhp for up to 15 seconds per lap (less time available for those who would currently carry ballast).

The target was for the entire system to be under 50kg. Cosworth are reporting that the motor is 7.5kg, battery pack sits in the current ballast location weiginh 20kg, with the cooling system behind the headlights.

So if the figures are accurate - Jordan will have the equivalent of roughly 30kg ballast, but have an extra 40bhp for 15 seconds (or more if TOCA want the car to run significantly better lap times).

[schanche]

No more Crees in Porsche this year either now, sitting out rest of season possible for return 2022

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

The same 300bhp is available from the ICE.
The hybrid adds an extra 40bhp for up to 15 seconds per lap (less time available for those who would currently carry ballast).

The target was for the entire system to be under 50kg. Cosworth are reporting that the motor is 7.5kg, battery pack sits in the current ballast location weiginh 20kg, with the cooling system behind the headlights.

So if the figures are accurate - Jordan will have the equivalent of roughly 30kg ballast, but have an extra 40bhp for 15 seconds (or more if TOCA want the car to run significantly better lap times).

So when there is a safety car he will catch up for the restart!!!

[AnnoyedMoose]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

The same 300bhp is available from the ICE.
The hybrid adds an extra 40bhp for up to 15 seconds per lap (less time available for those who would currently carry ballast).

The target was for the entire system to be under 50kg. Cosworth are reporting that the motor is 7.5kg, battery pack sits in the current ballast location weiginh 20kg, with the cooling system behind the headlights.

So if the figures are accurate - Jordan will have the equivalent of roughly 30kg ballast, but have an extra 40bhp for 15 seconds (or more if TOCA want the car to run significantly better lap times).

It's more than that. The battery pack and motor is 30kg but then you've got the controllers, high voltage loom, cooling fluid, pumps etc. The whole system is quoted to be 64kg by Cosworth.

[Sodemo]

Also aren’t the current cars pushing out nearer 380bhp?

[thetool]

If they were they should be a lot quicker than they are. HP figures always tend to get exaggerated.

[antnee]

I don't see why everyone is getting so worked up by this. There have been plenty of one-off appearances who HAVE scored points (Dan Camm, Round1???). It doesn't matter where AJ finishes, his position will be 'invisible' for the points.

They won't want him running around at the back in clear air as they can simulate that on a normal test day. They will want him to be with other cars, to see how the system reacts running close to other cars, how the power deployment works, etc.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by antnee

I don't see why everyone is getting so worked up by this. There have been plenty of one-off appearances who HAVE scored points (Dan Camm, Round1???). It doesn't matter where AJ finishes, his position will be 'invisible' for the points.

They won't want him running around at the back in clear air as they can simulate that on a normal test day. They will want him to be with other cars, to see how the system reacts running close to other cars, how the power deployment works, etc.

Because this is a driver capable of being very quick, in what we are told is the quickest car in the field, who holds a grudge against one of the front running teams.

[Greem]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Because this is a driver capable of being very quick, in what we are told is the quickest car in the field, who holds a grudge against one of the front running teams.

Who will be under very strict instructions from M-Sport, Cosworth, TOCA, Motorsport UK *and* Alan Gow himself to not muck anything up.

Honestly, if he was to do something deliberate to affect any of the championship contenders it would be the end of his career. I'm genuinely surprised that anyone would think that he'd be so daft.

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by Greem

Who will be under very strict instructions from M-Sport, Cosworth, TOCA, Motorsport UK *and* Alan Gow himself to not muck anything up.

Honestly, if he was to do something deliberate to affect any of the championship contenders it would be the end of his career. I'm genuinely surprised that anyone would think that he'd be so daft.

It's almost if TOCA deliberately picked him to keep him under control!

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by S griffin

It's almost if TOCA deliberately picked him to keep him under control!

What on earth are you talking about?!!!

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

What on earth are you talking about?!!!

It’s just a light hearted comment. Gee whizz

[Evantra]

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[BTCC frog]

Does the amount of success ballast need altering between different races? I think it is about okay for race one, as it puts the title contenders mid-pack and different drivers up front. It is good for race two as we get to see the leaders struggling and holding up drivers behind, while the likes of Sutton charge through the order on low ballast.
But is it time to get rid of the success ballast in race threes (or at least reduce it)? The reversed grid race allows for slower drivers to start at the front of the grid, but because they have less success ballast on they are able to hold their positions quite easily. This didn't seem to be massively relevant in the past, but I feel it has been very relevant this season, particularly for Adam Morgan's two wins at Brands Hatch and Thruxton. My suggestion is that it would make the final race of the day far more exciting if no drivers were carrying success ballast, while also making it fairer, as the drivers who headed race two would find it easier to carve through the pack in race three.

[AnnoyedMoose]

I'm not sure it's as simple as that. Cars make their lap times in different ways and we've seen many a time that a car that does nothing in the pack is a different beast up front. Often you can only go as fast as the car in front and if the quali performance puts you back there that's where you stay even if you're faster.

It's a moot point anyway as success ballast is gone next season and we have the whole different scenario of variable "push to pass" time to factor in instead.

[antnee]

Originally Posted by AnnoyedMoose

I'm not sure it's as simple as that. Cars make their lap times in different ways and we've seen many a time that a car that does nothing in the pack is a different beast up front. Often you can only go as fast as the car in front and if the quali performance puts you back there that's where you stay even if you're faster.

It's a moot point anyway as success ballast is gone next season and we have the whole different scenario of variable "push to pass" time to factor in instead.

Nail on head there. As an example, one of the old Civic FK2's strengths was on the brakes which helped with the 'last second dive' so they could always make progress through the pack.

[BertMk2]

More of an issue than the ballast is the problem with a race 1 dnf ruining the rest of the weekend - we've seen it quite often where a car that qualifies well gets punted out of race 1 and then is at the back for race 2 (often through no fault of the driver in question). Maybe the grid for race 2 should be decided on 2nd fastest lap in qualifying?

[S griffin]

It does seem a little bit unfair to me that a driver who's leading the championship is not only penalised in qualifying, but in R1 too, as he is unlikely to make much progress from starting lower down due to the ballast

[mprmke]

Originally Posted by S griffin

It does seem a little bit unfair to me that a driver who's leading the championship is not only penalised in qualifying, but in R1 too, as he is unlikely to make much progress from starting lower down due to the ballast

I'd agree with this. I'd make qualifying a free for all. No ballast, free tyre choice (from the race options available). Even if it means having an extra ballast for a driver in race one, which means anyone who would have been carrying ballast into qualifying and qualifies in one of the "ballast" positions, gets an extra percentage on top for race one, I still think that would be more interesting and fairer.

[BTCC frog]

I think I would keep qualifying and race one the same, or if anything reduce the ballast slightly. Then increase it in race two to make it more difficult to win two in a row and help the title contenders who struggled in race one fight their way up the grid. This is because my favourite type of race is when the leader is struggling and there is a long train of cars behind trying to get past, but the leader is defending extremely hard (a bit like Brands Hatch race two with Oliphant). Then the reversed grid race would be zero ballast for everyone so the cars at the front would actually be slower and the leaders of race two would be able to fight back to the front, otherwise this race ends up being a bit of a lottery. For example, if Turkington had started ahead of Morgan at Thruxton, he probably would have won. If they were on equal ballast he would have had a better chance to get past, while Sutton and Cook would have been able to fight through to the front more easily. I think it would probably increase both the fairness of the championship and the excitement of the races, but it may be that in practice it wouldn't actually work.

[Nononsensecapeesh]

Rest in peace, Gordon Spice, got the right thread this time.

[Craner Curves]

Michael "Creesy" Crees going about with an ExcelR8 fleece on?

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by Craner Curves

Michael "Creesy" Crees going about with an ExcelR8 fleece on?

It's Croft, he's probably cold

[crmalcolm]

Heading into the last three meetings, predictions on the final results?

I predict the final top 10 table will read:
Sutton - 348
Ingram - 293
Hill - 282
Turkington - 276
Cook - 274
Shedden - 263
Morgan - 259
Proctor - 252
Moffat - 242
Butcher - 235

[BTCC frog]

That’s very specific. Did you use some kind of formula to get those numbers, or did you predict every race result, or is that just a rough estimate? I predict:
1. Ash Sutton (wrapping it up at the second race at Brands Hatch)
2. Jake Hill
3. Tom Ingram
4. Colin Turkington
5. Josh Cook
6. Gordon Shedden
7. Dan Rowbottom
8. Rory Butcher
9. Aiden Moffat
10. Adam Morgan
11. Senna Proctor
12. Tom Oliphant
13. Stephen Jelley
14. Chris Smiley
15. Jason Plato