How old is too old to be a marshal

[PVDA]

Yes I know there is a marshals forum on here but this really needs a wider Aussie audience.

Rumours are doing the rounds that a certain sanctioning body is looking at implementing a compulsary marshals retirement age of 65

I can understand that as we get older we may need to move to a different area of the sport as we aren't as physically active as we were in our teens or 20's but to be thrown on the scrap heap.

I know of several marshals who are either over or just under the magic 65 that I don't think the sport can afford to lose due to a short sighted decision like this.

S'pose I've got 20 years left

[I16]

Could be a good move to give them tickets of thanks and sit them on the seats that are painted to look like a crowd.

[Bodysnatcher]

do you have age discrimination laws in Australia?
We do in the UK, so this sort of thing would be very difficult to implement, especially since the state pension age is creeping upwards beyond 65.

As for I16's suggestion - I take it you've never been a marshal. Once a marshal, it's very difficult to become a spectator again.

I've seen guys go on beyond 65, most were very good in their role (not many still running around wanting to push cars), some eventually were not. Those who were starting to lose their edge due to age related factors are usually well supported by those around them.

Maybe chiefs should have to pass the over 65s as being fit for a role at the start of the season. What I do know is that if you're still a marshal at 65, very few want to stop (and I reckon I'll be one of them) or know when to stop. For those reasons, somebody else might have to take the decision for them. Of course that is very hard because the older guy you'll be trying to protect by gently moving to the sidelines was probably the one that taught you everything you know.

but compulsory retirement due to some arbitrary elapsed time - NEVER!

[Bryan Degerlund]

I shall be 67 in February. This year (2009) I have done over 60 days marshalling (mainly startline and pits), including 2x F1GP (GB and Abu Dhabi), Long Beach Indycar (flagging/response), 24-hr @ Dubai, and many major meetings in UK. My intention is to do a similar number next year.

So two fingers to whoever came up with this proposal!!

ps -- hope to see you next season Mick (GTB..)

[I16]

Originally Posted by Bodysnatcher

As for I16's suggestion - I take it you've never been a marshal. Once a marshal, it's very difficult to become a spectator again.

Just looked up and yes I was a marshal at a hillclimb in 1961 - then club stuff for a few years - then competitor for three or four more years.
On to very serious lapscoring for a few Tasman races. Bit more racing - lot more hard work earning a living and supporting a lovely family.
Last ten years working hard during the week and being an offical for most weekends in the year.
I would now be very happy to be be able to sit back and watch - a seniors pass for events would be very nice to receive.

[Muznik]

There is no way there should be a maximum age.

At worst, maybe some sort of compulsory testing over 65. But really I think all marshalls that are required to act in a physical capacity (e.g. Fire) should have to pass one.

My Pop just retired this year at 83. His job? ....he had the security contract on a large factory in Western Sydney. He handled nightshift in one of the seediest areas of Sydney for the last 25yrs. I'd like to see someone tell him he's too old to wave a flag !

Marshalls should be thanked, encouraged ... not ostacised.

[retro]

http://www.hreoc.gov.au/age/about_age.html

http://www.hreoc.gov.au/age/roadmap_ADA.html

http://www.hreoc.gov.au/complaints_i...omplaints.html

CAMS Policy

Occupational Health & Safety Policy

Scope 1

Definitions 1

Policy Objective 2

Policy Statement 2

Policy Direction 2

Accountabilities 3

OH&S Policies on Specific issues 3

Policy Manager 3

Scope

This policy applies to all personnel and all persons at CAMS activities, workplaces and/or locations.


Definitions


CAMS Designated Representative

Either a Steward of the Event, the Clerk of Course or the Secretary of the Meeting, or a licensed official otherwise nominated by CAMS or the organiser of an event


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Official

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Plant

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Self employed person

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A person who attends an event (whether by personal invitation, or in response to general advertisements or public notices, or otherwise) under the control of an Organising Permit issued by CAMS (whether or not entrance to such an event is obtained in exchange for a fee) for the express purpose of viewing the event.


Stakeholder

Any person or company directly associated with the business activities of CAMS, or events sanctioned by CAMS.


Visitor

Any person not normally assigned to work in that area e.g. new contractor.


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Any person who holds a position on a Board, Commission, Committee, Working Group, Panel or otherwise and gives their time and effort for no financial reward is recognised by CAMS as a volunteer.


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Any location whether or not a building or a structure where CAMS conducts its business activities including nominated venues whilst events under the control of an Organising Permit issued by CAMS.


Policy Objective

The Confederation of Australian Motor Sport Ltd (CAMS) is committed to providing, so far as it is practicable, its stakeholders with a structured environment to minimise risks to health, safety and welfare. CAMS recognise that motor sport is inherently dangerous and will continue to strive to minimise risk to those involved through a shared and integrated approach to health and safety. This policy outlines the organisational commitment and policy in achieving this objective.


Policy Statement

CAMS policy is to recognise and manage so far as is practicable its moral and legal responsibilities for the safety and health of its personnel and persons who may be affected by CAMS activities.


Policy Direction

As far as is reasonably practicable, CAMS will achieve this by:

 Managing a comprehensive Health and Safety program which seeks to protect and enhance the health and safety of CAMS’ stakeholders;
 Consulting with stakeholders on an ongoing basis regarding health and safety;
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Policy author: Safety & Medical Co-ordinator Version: Final
Policy Ref No.: FIS 001 Created on: 13/03/08
Title: Occupational Health & Safety Policy Last Modified: 17/07/09
Page 3 of 3
 Providing information, instruction, education, training and supervision to personnel and contractors to the duties they perform, to ensure their safety;
 Encouraging CAMS' stakeholders to contribute and make suggestions about better ways to identify hazards and mange risks;
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Accountabilities

Safety is a shared responsibility, and the following accountabilities apply to the implementation of this policy:


Management

All management is accountable to implement this policy within their area of responsibility.

Management is responsible for:
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OH&S Policies on Specific issues
Policies, procedures, operational safety requirements and safe work methods on specific occupational health and safety issues, consistent with the principles in this policy, will be issued as appropriate.

Policy Manager
Manager, Safety and Medical Services
Department: Motor Sport
Date approved (this version): 16/07/2009
Date due for review: 16/07/2011

[Silver 3]

Typical of CAMS beauracracy brown nosing goverment policies rather than looking after it's own members interests.
See thread" Who owns CAMS?"
Quite ridiculous to think anyone over 65 is not competent. Sure-test them if you must-- not senile,can run!! -- = still capable of marshalling.

[Trevor]

It might be a ploy to get Timmy out of the seat - LOL

BTW, they can try the OHS law route, but it wan't work, one test case in a court overseen by a judge will see it thrown out, particularly if the peson over 65 is more then able to to the job.

[NewsStalker]

As I heard it the other day, a number of F1 officials are 'retiring' - although they only heard of this when it wa announced publicly!

OTOH - CAMS seem to continually shoot themselves in the foot by alienating their most experienced officials.
'
BTW - just how old is the moccasin wearer?

(Hmmmm - if they implemented this policy where would that leave Bernie at Albert Park? - I know - he's not an official but....fireworks anyone?)

[MPA]

I wonder..... If you're too old to marshal at 65 are you too old to race?

[BFC]

so who is going to kick me out?i get invited by the PROMOTER not CAMS to go to a racemeeting...besides i aint got a CAMS licence anyhow so they have no jurisdiction over me

[JimW]

As my UK colleagues point out above, this approach would not wash here. (Government legislation which is sensible - I never thought I would say that.)

Our newsletter from the MSA (strictly the MSF) had an item in the last edition. I can't find my copy and it does not seem to be on-line, but it made the point that capability is the issue, not age. We self-certify when signing on every meeting that we are fit to perform the duty.

For most of the point is that when we talk about retiring, people ask Why? rather than When?

Regards

Jim

[NewsStalker]

Originally Posted by BFC

so who is going to kick me out?i get invited by the PROMOTER not CAMS to go to a racemeeting...besides i aint got a CAMS licence anyhow so they have no jurisdiction over me

It comes back to this - yet again.

CAMS have no legal jurisdiction over officials in even demanding that they be licensed. They have tried this a number of times and every time have had to back off as soon as legal action was threatened if they attempted to enforce their own unenforceable rule.

[Denosaur]

I wonder if it's the "New Guard" wanting to push the old one out and try and get there agenda in place??

Either way, I'm sure that it wouldn't go down well in Legal Land.

Should head over to Volunteering Australia and see what they have to say......

[redesp]

What has age got to do with the ability of a marshall to do a job??

I've seen plenty of younger marshalls who can't physicallly cope with the demands of the marshall duties... I remember seeing a firery attend a breakdown who was too big to run.. let alone carry 10kgs worth of extinguisher. And by the time he got from his position to the car he was stuffed and out of breath due to lack of fitness.

If anything, either the promoter, governing body, track owner (or who ever is engaging the marshalls) should look at ensuring that they are physically capable of performing the role.


This should include medical report or physical capability tests for those marshalls who are requreid to compelte physical tasks. Maybe an annual test that coincies with issuing of relevent accreditation.

The flip side to this then becomes litigation when eiher the marshall hurts themselves as a result on not being able to perform a task OR (worse) drivers are put at greater risk due to marshall inability to service them.

I'm not saying don't engage those who can't physically do the work.. just put them in a role that's suitable to their capability...

[RotorFan]

What kind of marshals are we talking about? I think a flag/sector/start/finish etc marshal needs to be fit to some degree. There are some blokes out there that have trouble getting from A to B (or like to have a sleep on point) that shouldn't be marshals. In the cases I'm thinking of they aren't over 65 though.