Home Mobile Forum News Cookbook FaceBook Us T-Shirts etc.: Europe/Worldwide. eBay Motorsport Links Advertising  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Clubmans Rallycross Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Other Motorsports > Rallying & Rallycross


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 16 Apr 2019, 16:56 (Ref:3898033)   #76
S griffin
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 8,188
S griffin has a real shot at the championship!S griffin has a real shot at the championship!S griffin has a real shot at the championship!S griffin has a real shot at the championship!S griffin has a real shot at the championship!S griffin has a real shot at the championship!
Well the historics add something to the event, shame they still get stuffed up. And itís nice to see some stylish drivers out there too
S griffin is online now  
__________________
He who dares wins!
He who hesitates is lost!
Quote
Old 18 Apr 2019, 11:49 (Ref:3898381)   #77
BertMk2
Race Official
Veteran
 
BertMk2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
United Kingdom
Nr Maidstone, Kent
Posts: 9,141
BertMk2 is going for a new lap record!BertMk2 is going for a new lap record!BertMk2 is going for a new lap record!BertMk2 is going for a new lap record!BertMk2 is going for a new lap record!BertMk2 is going for a new lap record!
I see that Tom Onslow-Cole is having another outing in the RX150's - presumably another freebie drive to add something to the meagre entry for them.
BertMk2 is offline  
Quote
Old 18 Apr 2019, 23:29 (Ref:3898473)   #78
S griffin
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 8,188
S griffin has a real shot at the championship!S griffin has a real shot at the championship!S griffin has a real shot at the championship!S griffin has a real shot at the championship!S griffin has a real shot at the championship!S griffin has a real shot at the championship!
Well he just loves competing. Rallycross should be right up his street
S griffin is online now  
__________________
He who dares wins!
He who hesitates is lost!
Quote
Old 23 Apr 2019, 10:32 (Ref:3899142)   #79
BertMk2
Race Official
Veteran
 
BertMk2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
United Kingdom
Nr Maidstone, Kent
Posts: 9,141
BertMk2 is going for a new lap record!BertMk2 is going for a new lap record!BertMk2 is going for a new lap record!BertMk2 is going for a new lap record!BertMk2 is going for a new lap record!BertMk2 is going for a new lap record!
Cracking day of racing at Lydden yesterday (and lovely weather which makes a nice change!). Lively supercar final was won by Derek Tohill in most of a Fiesta - I was suprised he made it to the flag, I thought the amount of smoke coming off the tyres would surely end up in a puncture. Tohill, O'Donovan and Godfrey looked to be a mile ahead of the others all day in terms of pace (although as ever Hill looked quick whilst the Evo lasted - and as ever it let him down). Mike Manning's Fiesta never really looked (or sounded) to be running at 100% which was a shame but it's good to see him back again.

Supernational was a bit of a one horse race all day - nobody was getting near Ovenden and the field was thinning out by the end of the day, that's a class that needs a bit of a lift. There used to be such a wide variety of cars in that class - some of them have shifted into the Retro classes now so that dilutes it a bit but there were quite a few regulars missing too.

Speaking of the Retros - Liam was absolutely flying in the RS200, fastest time of the day across all classes is no mean feat. Have to say the sight of 2 RS200's, 2 6R4's and the Quattro sitting on the grid was a bit special - it's not something I saw in period so it's a real privilege to see it now.

The Swifts, Juniors, MINIs and RX150s all gave some good close racing too (which was a real surprise for the RX150s). Monster accident in the Swifts too - glad to see the driver get out of what was left of the car.

As for Lydden itself - traffic getting out was better than normal as they actually had people managing it (and the way the finals were ordered meant that people left more gradually rather than a charge to get out right at the end). Toilets were the usual state - but did at least start the day clean (although no paper towels all day).
BertMk2 is offline  
Quote
Old 23 Apr 2019, 10:54 (Ref:3899145)   #80
tbtstt
Veteran
 
tbtstt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
United Kingdom
Redhill, England
Posts: 3,256
tbtstt should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridtbtstt should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I had a good day as well. Great weather, decent racing in the majority of classes - including the RX150's - and a close Supercar final.

Real shame to (yet again) see Hill have bad luck. Mike Manning still doesn't seem to have got that Fiesta sorted, hope he manages to make some more progress with it as I think he is going to really struggle in Europe with the car in it's present state. Great to see Tohill get the win, I thought he had the speed at Silverstone, he just wasn't as tidy as Godfrey. Good showing from Julian in the Fiesta (though a shame that he hasn't used the time in the garage to get rid of that godawful livery!).

As Bert says the Super National class was a bit of a one horse race. That Clio has so much grunt that, once it's putting the power down, Tristan already has breathing space behind him by the first corner.

Liam was absolutely wringing the neck of that RS200. Seemed to have a few issues in the heats, but it was an absolute missile in the final. Harris wasn't exactly slow in his RS200, but Doran left them all behind. First time I can recall seeing a 4WD car laying rubber all round the elbow as well! Really enjoyed the little scraps thoughout the Retro field, even the cars at the back were trading places. Shame to see that Stratos get smashed up.

Seemed a decent size crowd and I was glad to see that there were adequate facilities to match.

The only real negative were the start line issues which caused a few delays, but the whole thing still wrapped up before the curfew.
tbtstt is offline  
Quote
Old 23 Apr 2019, 12:01 (Ref:3899162)   #81
chunder
Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
England
Stevenage
Posts: 8,298
chunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Lol, if you never saw Schanche and Gollop or actually guys like Alamaki or Rasmushaugen before them black ribber everywhere was common! And on slicks, that is what a properly driven Group B car did.

Amazed it lasted!!
chunder is offline  
Quote
Old 23 Apr 2019, 13:25 (Ref:3899178)   #82
tbtstt
Veteran
 
tbtstt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
United Kingdom
Redhill, England
Posts: 3,256
tbtstt should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridtbtstt should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunder View Post
Lol, if you never saw Schanche and Gollop or actually guys like Alamaki or Rasmushaugen before them black ribber everywhere was common! And on slicks, that is what a properly driven Group B car did.
Sadly I wasn't old enough to appreciate details like that at the time. You see the modern cars occasionally put a bit of rubber down, but not trace a line through a corner!

Quote:
Originally Posted by chunder View Post
Amazed it lasted!!
The Doran RS200? It had issues in heats two and three (perhaps temperature related?) as it was silly fast, then seemed to suddenly slow down. It was pinned for the whole final though.
tbtstt is offline  
Quote
Old 23 Apr 2019, 14:59 (Ref:3899191)   #83
Pozi
Rookie
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 97
Pozi should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbtstt View Post
The Doran RS200? It had issues in heats two and three (perhaps temperature related?) as it was silly fast, then seemed to suddenly slow down. It was pinned for the whole final though.
The commentator said heat 2 was just a mistake by Liam because he left the track after the the red flag and the officials would not let him back on again.
Pozi is offline  
Quote
Old 23 Apr 2019, 15:04 (Ref:3899192)   #84
tbtstt
Veteran
 
tbtstt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
United Kingdom
Redhill, England
Posts: 3,256
tbtstt should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridtbtstt should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pozi View Post
The commentator said heat 2 was just a mistake by Liam because he left the track after the the red flag and the officials would not let him back on again.
Ah, I wondered what happened there. I didn't seem him initially leaving the track, but saw the marshal at the bottom of the hill direct him off the circuit. He must have ducked into the slip road then come back out again?
tbtstt is offline  
Quote
Old 23 Apr 2019, 15:43 (Ref:3899207)   #85
chunder
Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
England
Stevenage
Posts: 8,298
chunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
there is an interesting element to this though.

That car is probably a second a lap quicker than the final versions of the Group B RS200's running in 92, the last year of the rules. Pat ran one for years after that, very powerful, very trick. But I would suggest Liam is no match for Martin on his day. That track record stood for years from 1988 and 1990.

But Liam is a current level driver, in WRX probably a top 6 driver in terms of speed, and he was quicker than the current spec of rallycross cars.

Yes the 200 is probably lighter and more powerful, but nowhere near as much torque, I doubt as clever in terms of diffs and gearboxes. and obviously mid engined.

Lydden was ALWAYS the best track for the RS200, was quicker than the 205 usually there too.

So a modern car is slower? Tohill is a decent peddler, not on Dorans level but not bad. The rest are quick clubmen.

I find it interesting that an old car, albeit with new tech on it is quicker. Was he running slicks or cut slicks? Probably. they would work better than the crap tyres modern cars have to run.

Imagine going to say Cloaenog with a 205 and say Elfyn Evans, can you imagine if he was quicker through the stage than Ogier, Tanak, Neuville in the modern WRC cars?
chunder is offline  
Quote
Old 23 Apr 2019, 17:38 (Ref:3899221)   #86
tbtstt
Veteran
 
tbtstt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
United Kingdom
Redhill, England
Posts: 3,256
tbtstt should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridtbtstt should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Ha, I was waiting for the old versus new debate to start!

I think he was running slicks, sure I got a picture of the car in the paddock so I can check that later. There was a write up on that car (in it's current guise) published a year or so ago (in Octane). I'll have to check but I am pretty sure a lot of it's underpinnings were pretty modern (I am 99% sure it's running modern suspension).

Sure the magazine article was talking about well in excess of 600 BHP in that car, so I think the torque levels may well be equal to (or even greater than) a modern Supercar.

I think it's a tough one to call. Yeah, an restricted Group B car stuffed with modern tech is likely quicker than a current car, but when it drastically deviates from it's original specification can you really consider it an "old" Group B car? And if you remove the restriction from the new car that will surely be faster again. A direct comparison of period cars would be interesting, though I wonder how many (if any) of those there are in use.
tbtstt is offline  
Quote
Old 23 Apr 2019, 18:32 (Ref:3899232)   #87
BertMk2
Race Official
Veteran
 
BertMk2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
United Kingdom
Nr Maidstone, Kent
Posts: 9,141
BertMk2 is going for a new lap record!BertMk2 is going for a new lap record!BertMk2 is going for a new lap record!BertMk2 is going for a new lap record!BertMk2 is going for a new lap record!BertMk2 is going for a new lap record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbtstt View Post
Ha, I was waiting for the old versus new debate to start!

I think he was running slicks, sure I got a picture of the car in the paddock so I can check that later.
It was on slicks - just checked one of my photos in the paddock.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbtstt View Post
I think it's a tough one to call. Yeah, an restricted Group B car stuffed with modern tech is likely quicker than a current car, but when it drastically deviates from it's original specification can you really consider it an "old" Group B car? And if you remove the restriction from the new car that will surely be faster again. A direct comparison of period cars would be interesting, though I wonder how many (if any) of those there are in use.
This is the thing - how much of that RS200 is 'period'? Not much I'd have said - suspension, brakes, engine, turbo, gearbox, diffs - all that will be better than period. Add to that the advantage of the mid engine layout and you're well on your way. Remove the engineering restrictions from the modern cars and you'd see an improvement in performance for sure.
BertMk2 is offline  
Quote
Old 23 Apr 2019, 20:47 (Ref:3899253)   #88
tbtstt
Veteran
 
tbtstt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
United Kingdom
Redhill, England
Posts: 3,256
tbtstt should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridtbtstt should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I found the article I was thinking of (Octane, November 2017, if anyone cares). According to that feature the engine is - or at least was - producing 750 BHP/750 Ft. Lbs, overall weight of the car was 1000 Kg and it was running a modern sequential box.

So that's modern transmission, as much (if not more) torque than a modern engine plus 300 Kg less weight.

Interestingly (or not depending on how much trivial details matter to you) the car had single coilovers in the pictures for that article, but it was on twin shocks yesterday: a requirement of the class perhaps? If that is the case then perhaps other details have had to change.
tbtstt is offline  
Quote
Old 23 Apr 2019, 21:03 (Ref:3899255)   #89
chunder
Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
England
Stevenage
Posts: 8,298
chunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
The car has had numerous layouts since Pat bought it in 1990.

The standard is twin shocks, most period ran this.

I know the car in the later Hydrex era had considerably more than 700hp, maybe 850, Pat did not skimp on power! Then the restrictor era finally came into GB rallycross and it was moved around a it until it was bought back and the Doran team rebuilt it.

I would think the torque is not that high ie 750lb/ft, the modern engines have massive torque because of the restrictor, a regular high boost turbo not so much, but still high.

I doubt the class puts heavy restrictions on cars, some have been turned away and are now back again with different drivers, it is a face fits series.
chunder is offline  
Quote
Old 23 Apr 2019, 21:41 (Ref:3899262)   #90
BertMk2
Race Official
Veteran
 
BertMk2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
United Kingdom
Nr Maidstone, Kent
Posts: 9,141
BertMk2 is going for a new lap record!BertMk2 is going for a new lap record!BertMk2 is going for a new lap record!BertMk2 is going for a new lap record!BertMk2 is going for a new lap record!BertMk2 is going for a new lap record!
A few pics from the day:
Attached Thumbnails
T3.JPG   q1.JPG   m1.JPG  

IMG_9184.JPG   q2.JPG   S2.JPG  

BertMk2 is offline  
Quote
Reply

Bookmarks




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
World Rallycross Championship 2019 tbtstt Rallying & Rallycross 660 Today 14:21
British RallyCross R8 Croft / British RallyCross GP geordiecriag101 Rallying & Rallycross 16 13 Oct 2015 21:15
MSA British Rallycross Championship - Round 1 / Belgian Rallycross Championship B Friendly Marshals Needed 2 15 Mar 2011 16:23
MSA British Rallycross Championship - Round 1 / Belgian Rallycross Championship B Friendly Marshals Needed 2 15 Mar 2011 16:22


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT. The time now is 19:20.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2018 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.