[BTCC] BTCC 2023 season discussion, News and Rumours!

[AnnoyedMoose]

Originally Posted by Adamcas87

Compared to what?

Like I said some people have more money some have less. People say BTCC is too expensive but so is TCR compared to most club racing. It's all relative.

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by Adamcas87

Compared to what?

C1 racing

[crmalcolm]

From about 5 years ago, but Jonathan Ashman had this to say about TCR UK:

"We’re not a competitor to the BTCC, we’re a feeder. There’s no point us taking on something like the BTCC, which is incredibly successful and does a tremendous job”.

At the same time, the following was written:
Currently, a full season in the BTCC can cost anywhere between £400,000 to £800,000 depending on what your targets are for the championship and what team you drive for. A full 7 round TCR UK season costs as little as £120,000 to £160,000, again depending on what team you drive for, the age of the car you buy and how many parts you get through. When you compare this to popular one-make series like the Renault Clio Cup and Ginetta GT4 Supercup which cost a similar amount for similar levels of performance and that offer only a little extra track time, it’s clear that TCR is an extremely attractive option for amateur drivers.

[Greem]

Why has the current meeting thread been closed?

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Greem

Why has the current meeting thread been closed?

Not sure - thanks for the spot. Possibly did this when meant to be making it a stickie.

It’s open now - thanks.

[crmalcolm]

After 21 rounds - how do the relative performances of each chassis compare?

The Vauxhall has now moved ahead of Honda.
Toyota and Hyundai remain closely matched.

The BMW is still the strongest performing chassis in this comparison.

[Mike Harte]

crm, out of interest, how would that graph look if it was 1st and 2nd, and also if it was averaged out over all cars in the teams?

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

crm, out of interest, how would that graph look if it was 1st and 2nd, and also if it was averaged out over all cars in the teams?

It will take me a little time to generate, but I'll present it soon....

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

It will take me a little time to generate, but I'll present it soon....

Many thanks because I think it may well be very interesting.

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

crm, out of interest, how would that graph look if it was 1st and 2nd, and also if it was averaged out over all cars in the teams?

If Sutton was taken out of the equation I reckon the Focus would still be fairly average to mediocre?

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

If Sutton was taken out of the equation I reckon the Focus would still be fairly average to mediocre?

Possibly.

To clarify, the chart presented so far has been the combined average finishing position of the 2nd and 3rd car of each type in a race. For the Ford, this has been Sutton the majority of the time, but not always.

[crmalcolm]

So in terms of alternative comparisons of how well each car is performing - if you only look at the first two cars across the line for each make.
The Ford is marginally better than the BMW.
The Hyundai is clear of the Toyota and Honda.
The Cupra is marginally better than the Vauxhall:

[crmalcolm]

If you look at the results for all cars of each make,

The BMW sits clearly ahead of the Ford.
Toyota is the next best.
Vauxhall, Honda and Hyundai equal.
The Cupra is adrift.

[Mike Harte]

Thanks for doing those two graphs; they do show something interesting about this year. They appear to demonstrate that the perception that some people have that the Fords are in a league of their own is not really correct because BMW are pegging them and just a fraction ahead.

In fact, as I wrote in the other thread, if WSR could only get them to play nicely between each other, they could be well ahead. Motorbase could show them a thing or two in that respect.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

Thanks for doing those two graphs; they do show something interesting about this year. They appear to demonstrate that the perception that some people have that the Fords are in a league of their own is not really correct because BMW are pegging them and just a fraction ahead.

That's the reason I started the comparison. It seemed that some people were perceiving the Ford as being dominant, when that is not the case. The graphs seem to back this up, but obviously the driver is not factored into the assessment.

FWIW, I think the BMW is still the strongest car in the field, but Sutton and Ingram are getting more out of their respective cars compared to Hill and Turkington.

[Mike Harte]

I agree with you, which is why I am enjoying this year.

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

That's the reason I started the comparison. It seemed that some people were perceiving the Ford as being dominant, when that is not the case. The graphs seem to back this up, but obviously the driver is not factored into the assessment.

FWIW, I think the BMW is still the strongest car in the field, but Sutton and Ingram are getting more out of their respective cars compared to Hill and Turkington.

Equally impressive is how much Cookie is getting out of his Honda. He deserves as much praise as Tingram and Sutton

[crmalcolm]

After Donington GP, how does each chassis look in comparison.

Firstly, taking the average of all cars:

[crmalcolm]

Secondly, if you just take the first two cars of each type over the line:

[crmalcolm]

And finally, the comparison that (IMO) shows the clearest 'pecking order' of the cars - 2nd and 3rd best results:

[WestHam92]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

If you look at the results for all cars of each make,

The BMW sits clearly ahead of the Ford.
Toyota is the next best.
Vauxhall, Honda and Hyundai equal.
The Cupra is adrift.

Given how quick the BMWs are, Sutton would run away with it if he was in one. I apologise if this has been mentioned on here before, but was there ever a chance of him driving a BMW before he joined Motorbase?

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by WestHam92

Given how quick the BMWs are, Sutton would run away with it if he was in one. I apologise if this has been mentioned on here before, but was there ever a chance of him driving a BMW before he joined Motorbase?

There was a bit of a rumour, but nothing seemed to be in it:

Warren Scott: “I’ve not spoken to West Surrey – it would be news to me. That certainly hasn’t been put on the agenda, and at the minute the plans are much the same [to continue with the Infiniti]. I have to do my best for Ash and my best for BMR, and if there were offers coming in I would certainly look at them.”

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by BTCC frog

For next year, I predict that we are looking at:

Title Contenders:
Jake Hill (champion)
Ash Sutton
Tom Ingram

Outsiders:
Colin Turkington
Rory Butcher
Josh Cook

So with a couple of meetings left, this prediction seems fairly reasonable. One thing I have observed recently though is the mental aspect of competing for the title.

In nearly every interview Hill gives, he seems to make reference to Sutton in some way, and quite often negatively. The most recent example being 'It's infuriating to be honest, because you can't race the bloke fairly'

On the contrary to this, Sutton will regularly focus on his own (or car's) performance. If he makes reference to another driver, it usually comes with some form of praise attached.

Is this the biggest stumbling block Hill currently has - he obviously has the car underneath him to win a title, and so perhaps the focus should now be on maximising his own performance and trying to eliminate those thoughts relating to other drivers (particularly Sutton)?

[AnnoyedMoose]

I wonder how much of that is because of where they currently are in regards to perceived car performance? Reverse their roles and would they be the same? Sutton has certainly been not so kind to other drivers in interviews in the past when things weren't going so well and he thought he had been hard done by.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by AnnoyedMoose

I wonder how much of that is because of where they currently are in regards to perceived car performance? Reverse their roles and would they be the same? Sutton has certainly been not so kind to other drivers in interviews in the past when things weren't going so well and he thought he had been hard done by.

Possibly - you might be right.

Although - I think it has been that way from Hill since before the first points were scored:

Hill [22 Apr]: 'Sutton's quite a bit quicker than us all at the moment so, that's interesting to see exactly what's happened there' - which I take at the time might not have been seen as overly concerned with other drivers, but is already hinting at focus being elsewhere.

Hill [23 Apr]: '[Sutton's] just chopped me, you know, I'm there, I've a nose there, I'm well there.'