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Old 30 Jul 2023, 09:05 (Ref:4170536)   #151
S griffin
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They are good in their own series, but can't really be used elsewhere. But they could be used for some endurance racing
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Old 30 Jul 2023, 14:20 (Ref:4170606)   #152
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They are good in their own series, but can't really be used elsewhere. But they could be used for some endurance racing
Actually no - less than 1/3 of the cars in Australia can last 20 laps.

Hyundai and VAG cars if you're lucky.
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Old 31 Jul 2023, 12:37 (Ref:4170814)   #153
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This is an interesting point - makes for a good club car, especially superseeded models which are quite cheap in reality.
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Except that they are really not, you have a single source of parts, they don't crash well at all, and relatively few are useful for any kind of endurance race.
If TCRs are so terrible for club racing entrants, why does this 750 MC club race feature no less than six TCRs including both VWs and SEATs? Entrants are free to enter any kind of car they want -- including one they build themselves, the vast majority of which are also built out of road cars too.

I believe the Audi TT is an ex-VLN car, so it's also very similar to a TCR. (Or it might be a UK car running the VLN aero package. Recall the Audi TT was allowed to be an early TCR, before the rules changed to five doors only.)

Why on Earth would an entrant use a TCR car if they are no good?!

The leading cars completed 50 laps in the (safety car laden) 2 hour Oulton Park race -- a 1-2 for Seat Leon TCRs no less while the Lotus and Ginetta struck mechanical troubles, so TCRs can't be that unreliable, can they?

I concur with gravin and find it dubious you could build your own hot hatch with a chrome moly cage, DSG or Sadev gearbox, two-way Ohlins, AP Racing brakes and functional aero for less than the $100,000AUD/50,000GBP you'd spend on an older TCR.

If the EA888 engine pops you can get another one, they are cheap, or do something fun like the TDI engine in the Audi TT to promote your diesel tuning shop (that's a DSG car rather than a sequential car).

It will take a small tuning workshop a lot of design time and knowledge to design better race-spec control arms than what comes on the TCR too -- what price do you put on ready supplied development?

(Are a lot of these tuning shops running TCRs which are out-of-life on their control arms and uprights, while having no facilities to crack test them between every round (not they could bother/afford to do so)? Probably, but that's nothing new in club racing! Some of the tuning shop-built cars like the E46 M3s or Lotus Elise are probably as bad or worse for some parts being outside of their design spec or component life!)

The Australian racing category that is most similar are probably the "300" enduros: https://www.speedcafe.com/2023/07/17...ns-sydney-300/ If you think the winning tuning shop-built BYP Racing Honda Integra DC2 with its supercharged K24 (and hardened gears in a standard Honda gearbox, not a Sadev) has better reliability, more careful component lifing or is easier to repair crash damage than a JAS Motorsport Civic TCR, I have a Sydney Harbour Bridge to sell you!

Last edited by V8 Fireworks; 31 Jul 2023 at 13:06.
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Old 31 Jul 2023, 13:10 (Ref:4170818)   #154
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I believe there is push back against GT4s (and possibly TCRs) in the 300 enduros, precisely because they are too reliable, even when they perform the same as a shop-built or home-built car.

I'm not too familiar with the reliability of the JAS Motorsport Civic TCRs, but don't see why they would do a bad job on durability. I'm a little more concerned that their FL5 doesn't seem a big step over the FK8 in terms of aerodynamics (visually), when compared to cars like the Lynk&Co and Elantra N, and worry JAS may not have done enough development.
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Old 1 Aug 2023, 10:39 (Ref:4170911)   #155
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The Civics do endurance races all the time.

NLS, Creventic, Super Taikyu for example.

The difference between here and everywhere else it seems, is that everywhere else they're being upkept and maintained.

If you're on a lease deal here, you're paying Super2 money for a car run by a team that's not exactly adhearing to the component lifing chart that's included in the operating manual...
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Old 1 Aug 2023, 10:43 (Ref:4170912)   #156
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Like all the other cars they can do enduros with the enduro kit that none of the cars here have.
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Old 1 Aug 2023, 14:49 (Ref:4170950)   #157
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Like all the other cars they can do enduros with the enduro kit that none of the cars here have.
Exactly. A few tweaks and they could compete in longer races.
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Old 2 Aug 2023, 11:50 (Ref:4171041)   #158
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Exactly. A few tweaks and they could compete in longer races.
All costs $$$ nobody wants to spend.

Stan money would do the trick...
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Old 5 Aug 2023, 02:43 (Ref:4171418)   #159
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Meantime, another pilot fif the ASM Lynk&Co

https://www.speedseries.com.au/tim-slade-joins-tcr-australia-field-in-autoglym-lynk-co/]Tim Slade[/url]
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Old 5 Aug 2023, 03:01 (Ref:4171422)   #160
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Bit of an embarrassment now.
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Old 5 Aug 2023, 09:04 (Ref:4171443)   #161
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This series will take time to grow. I expected a few bumps in the road along the way. Although I admit there are some things that aren't helping, like constant driver changes in one team
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Old 6 Aug 2023, 11:41 (Ref:4171581)   #162
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This series will take time to grow. I expected a few bumps in the road along the way. Although I admit there are some things that aren't helping, like constant driver changes in one team
“The series will take time to grow” is a legitimate statement in the first year or two but we are now in the 5th year.History shows if things aren’t strong by then they never will be.
The issue in Australia is that it was pretty much funded by a rich man writing blank cheques initially.When he got sick of setting fire to his money the cold winds of reality hit.
What it is right now is as good as it’s ever going to get.
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Old 11 Aug 2023, 05:55 (Ref:4172112)   #163
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What it is right now is as good as it’s ever going to get.
It's a worry. The cars aren't expensive to run (or buy), so that can't be the problem.

The grids are dwindling in TCR Europe, and even TCR Germany which used to have 40 car grids, too.

Even though the cars aren't that slow, it seems like they don't appeal to amateur gentleman or lady drivers who would rather drive Carrera Cup or GT3 cars? The internal competition from Trans Am on the ARG race program cannot help matters either.
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Old 13 Aug 2023, 01:33 (Ref:4172409)   #164
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Plans afoot for the Harris family to acquire the D'Alberto championship winner, to expand to a two-car outfit.

Mr D'Alberto is said to be waiting on the new FL5 to arrive.

However, still plenty of cars sitting about...
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Old 13 Aug 2023, 03:44 (Ref:4172411)   #165
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“The series will take time to grow” is a legitimate statement in the first year or two but we are now in the 5th year.History shows if things aren’t strong by then they never will be.
The issue in Australia is that it was pretty much funded by a rich man writing blank cheques initially.When he got sick of setting fire to his money the cold winds of reality hit.
What it is right now is as good as it’s ever going to get.
This weekend TA2 entrants openly talking about who has left because of being on Stan.

These categories down more than 40% from their peak, the cars are around, but it doesn't seem to be the organisers are doing anything to stem the bleeding.

The way it's going Stan are not going to renew, but the catgegories have another 2.5 years of this unless they leave and run their cars elsewhere.

Potentially a dangerous game to try to run TCR cars under a different organiser in Australia though.
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Old 13 Aug 2023, 07:33 (Ref:4172427)   #166
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Maybe it’s time to encourage a few guest drivers to come along, if they can persuade a few big names to turn up now and again it could keep the series going
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Old 13 Aug 2023, 07:45 (Ref:4172430)   #167
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This weekend TA2 entrants openly talking about who has left because of being on Stan.

These categories down more than 40% from their peak, the cars are around, but it doesn't seem to be the organisers are doing anything to stem the bleeding.

The way it's going Stan are not going to renew, but the catgegories have another 2.5 years of this unless they leave and run their cars elsewhere.

Potentially a dangerous game to try to run TCR cars under a different organiser in Australia though.
Has the Hi-Tech Oils Series which have live free to air TV faired any better?

Numbers in TA2 seem to be done there too.
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Old 13 Aug 2023, 10:08 (Ref:4172443)   #168
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Numbers in TA2 seem to be done there too.
I think this one was never really in the same league as the ARG series but the fragmentation hasn't done them any favours, but I feel TA2 is being left out in the cold while ARG markets S5000 and TCR as it's headline categories, the problem is the punters don't care!

Meanwhile SuperUte grids have seem to easily have more cars than the 3 ARG categories put together.

On the surface you'd think they would be less attractive than TA2 but they put on a similar show - good noise and aggressive, taily racing, against Supercars and GT racing where it looks like people are racing with all the aids turned on....
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Old 13 Aug 2023, 12:24 (Ref:4172515)   #169
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is this even watchable now?

Who watches it ?
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Old 15 Aug 2023, 05:42 (Ref:4172832)   #170
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is this even watchable now?

Who watches it ?
Very much so. Watching good drivers driving fast is always watchable.

I do. But I might be the one of very few.
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Old 16 Aug 2023, 02:19 (Ref:4172944)   #171
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is this even watchable now?

Who watches it ?
Watchable in what sense? 9 shows the Saturdays of each event FTA.
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Old 16 Aug 2023, 05:39 (Ref:4172953)   #172
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Watchable in what sense? 9 shows the Saturdays of each event FTA.
Thats great thats its FTA.

I did mean was it or is it popular?

Good to get some FTA coverage though
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Old 16 Aug 2023, 21:45 (Ref:4173048)   #173
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Thats great thats its FTA.

I did mean was it or is it popular?

Good to get some FTA coverage though
Probably the biggest crowds outside of Supercars for a national circuit racing series.
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Old 17 Aug 2023, 04:57 (Ref:4173061)   #174
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Probably the biggest crowds outside of Supercars for a national circuit racing series.
Thats great.

I thought the GT series would have been next after supercars
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Old 17 Aug 2023, 05:55 (Ref:4173063)   #175
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missed that ..

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Watchable in what sense? 9 shows the Saturdays of each event FTA.
I was unaware of that & will add it to my motorsport diet.
Is it consistently on one of their secondary channels?
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