Japan GT and DTM

[Asa]

Am I right to think that the Japan GT and DTM are similar in terms of:

1. Technology. Both use sihouette cars that only share the look of the road going cars.
2. Performance. I think both are about 2 to 3 seconds a lap faster than a FIA GT1 car?

If I ran a DTM Mercedes in Japan GT with Bernd Schneider and Jean Alesi driving it, then what are my chances of winning?

[tblincoe]

Originally Posted by Asa

Am I right to think that the Japan GT and DTM are similar in terms of:

1. Technology. Both use sihouette cars that only share the look of the road going cars.
2. Performance. I think both are about 2 to 3 seconds a lap faster than a FIA GT1 car?

If I ran a DTM Mercedes in Japan GT with Bernd Schneider and Jean Alesi driving it, then what are my chances of winning?

hard to say as there are no direct comparison tracks available for both series... that having been said i think the Super GT cars would have their way with teh DTM boys.

[slicktsax]

yeah they haven't run on the same tracks yet so as far as lap times u really can't compare but i agree that the super gt cars will eat the DTM since the gt cars can corner faster

[TerryC]

Very interesting topic! Perhaps we should write to motorsport mags as a feature suggestion (hello autosport!): a head to head sprint race between SuperGT & DTM cars would be so cool!

[TheNewBob]

I didn't know Japanese GT cars were based on silhouettes... Which I guess is the reason why a 350Z wins a lot, and Ferrari 550's don't tend to do very well. That's disappointed me, actually! I thought the Japanese would be the last people to do something like that.

I can understand DTM doing something like that, however. It would be a good comparison. Although I can't see a DTM car winning...

[jhansen]

I did not realize that the DTM cars are quicker than the FIA GT cars, but found out they are:

Brno, Audi A4 DTM - 1m52.883
Brno, Ferrari 550M - 1m56.654

Oschersleben, Audi A4 DTM - 1m20.471
Oschersleben, Saleen S7R - 1m23.543

About three to four seconds quicker in these two examples. Those are some very quick German tin tops!

[Kicking-back]

Compare DTM 1996 at Suzuka with Japan GT 1996

Then Compare DTM 1996 at a track DTM races today, and you should get a relative comparison.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by jhansen

I did not realize that the DTM cars are quicker than the FIA GT cars, but found out they are:

Brno, Audi A4 DTM - 1m52.883
Brno, Ferrari 550M - 1m56.654

Oschersleben, Audi A4 DTM - 1m20.471
Oschersleben, Saleen S7R - 1m23.543

About three to four seconds quicker in these two examples. Those are some very quick German tin tops!

Don't forget your comparing works teams in the DTM with privateers in FIA GT, not to mention ballast etc.

Although running to the theoretically slower ACO specs, I would have expected the Works C5-R to have been quicker than any FIA GT car last season.

[jhansen]

Well even assuming the works cars like the Aston Martins and Corvettes would eat up those three to four seconds, that's still quick for a touring car. I much prefer the GT cars if I had to choose, but wouldn't mind seeing a DTM car turn laps in earnest.

[JAG]

Thats 'if' you condsider them to be touring cars!

I think of them more like sedan bodied prototypes.

[jhansen]

Yes, it does sound like it. I really am not trying to tout them as anything great or not great. I just would have never guessed them to be that quick. That's all I'm really trying to say. I don't know much about them honestly. Only seen them a few times on Speed over here.

[flor]

DTM cars are always near or faster than Formula 3 lap times, any comparison of JGT vs F3?

[captain crunch]

As far as i know there is nothing against a DTM car entering the JGTC. I think they are permitted, but i'm not too sure on that. Would be interesting to see them race, but the concept of a touring car beating a GT is fundamentally wrong. I mean, they call them Grand tourers after all............

[nsxr]

the jgtc rules did allow for dtm cars to compete up intil a few years ago. The jgtc/Super GT were inspired by the dtm

[JAG]

I believe it was based on an ex DTM car but was not competitive.

[Asa]

Wouldn't it be great to have a combined Super GT/DTM event, with works Nissan, Toyota, Honda, Mercedes, Audi, MG and Opel all having a real go at it. That would be a cracker.

[slicktsax]

actually that mercedes wasn't based on a former DTM car it was built from a street CLK430. HKS did it all on their own which is why it wasn't as competative as the factory NSX's and Supras. but it had a 6 speed sequential and i believe but not sure the engine was stretched to 5 liters. i think it had potential given more development time and proper funding although HKS is a pretty big company and can spend some huge bucks on development.

[Asa]

Originally Posted by flor

DTM cars are always near or faster than Formula 3 lap times, any comparison of JGT vs F3?

Super GT cars are faster (although not by much) than Japan F3 as well:

Below are the pole times from last year.

Suzuka Circuit:
TOM's Supra GT500 1:54.476
Kazuki Nakajima Dallara F304 Toyota 1:55.389

TI Circuit:
Motul 350Z GT500 1:22.404
Joao Oliveria Lola Dome F106/03 Mugen 1:24.952

[Monkey Head]

Originally Posted by flor

DTM cars are always near or faster than Formula 3 lap times, any comparison of JGT vs F3?

Japan F3 and JGTC pole position times in suzuka,2004:
Kazuji Nakajima:1:54.790(F3)
T.Tsuchiya* / M.Apicella:1'54.476(GT)

notes:Tsuchiya's supra added 10kg penalty weight and his tyres used on qualifying must be use on start.

[Asa]

It seems the DTM cars are very close to F3 in performance:

Hockenheim
DTM Jean Alesi Mercedes C-Klasse 1:34.834
F3 Alexander Premat Dallara Mercedes 1:33.880

Estoril
DTM Matthias Ekstorm Audi A4 DTM 1:34.039
F3 Alexander Premat Dallara Mercedes 1:34.431

Seems to me the DTM cars and Super GT cars would be very competitive against each other, if they ever got into the same race.

[flor]

is there a tyre war in the Super GT Championship or do all cars use the same tyres?

[lemanfan]

DTM cars have verry soft tyres because they have 2 pitstops for round 150 km race
so tyres offers them a lot of grip.
JGTC races are longer so the tyres needs to have harder rubber. I think that JGTC car produse more downforce than a DTM car. Engine power and weight of these cars are nearly same.
In general JGTC cars should be around 2 seconds faster for one lap.

[tblincoe]

Originally Posted by flor

is there a tyre war in the Super GT Championship or do all cars use the same tyres?

definite tire war between at least Yokohoma and Bridgestone as far as Japanese manufacturers are concerned... both companies pour tons of money into the series.

Michelin and Dunlop are also represented in the series as well if i'm not mistaken.

[kmchow]

Originally Posted by TheNewBob

I didn't know Japanese GT cars were based on silhouettes... Which I guess is the reason why a 350Z wins a lot, and Ferrari 550's don't tend to do very well. That's disappointed me, actually! I thought the Japanese would be the last people to do something like that.

Like the DTM, the JGTC also started out as a touring car series. However, as they years progressed, they became more silhouette and LeMans prototype-ish in their design and build. It's sad they can't keep more of their touring car roots/design.

[Mike_Wooshy]

Originally Posted by kmchow

Like the DTM, the JGTC also started out as a touring car series. However, as they years progressed, they became more silhouette and LeMans prototype-ish in their design and build. It's sad they can't keep more of their touring car roots/design.

did ????
as i always throught it was started by the porches 956s and even before that they had Rx-3s and Skyline Gtrs racing round Fuji in the 70's ...... you must be thinking of the japanese touring car rather than the JGTC mate .