Brabham BT23

[Steve Wilkinson]

The following is a list of Brabham BT23 drivers in the aforementioned championship:

1970
Gray & Agness Mickel in the ex-Hawley BT23B

1973
Bob Snelson in a BT23C

[allenbrown]

This post marks the point at which an assortment of BT23 material was split out of the giant Brabham BT28-29-30-35-36 thread into its own thread.

Allen

[Andrew Fellowes]

again I've only done a very quick flip thru, but we don't seem to have these;

11/11/71 A/S p.46 BT23C ex Bob Gerrard, Traco Chev, DG300 (#C12?)
15/3/73 A/S p.59 BT23C ex Alister Walker, John Blades, Whitley Bay 20976 (#C16?)

[Andrew Fellowes]

suffering cats, aahhhh!

Bob GERARD
ALISTAIR Walker



1974 A/S Nov 28th p.57 BT23C ex Gethin for sale 01 567 3941 (#C2?)

[Ted Walker]

Andrew. I think the Whitley Bay No is in fact J Blades Tel No.

[Andrew Fellowes]

There are so many anomalies in this lot that I suggest read with caution. I have endeavoured to reflect this but I am sure I will have missed some of the alternative histories.
One reason for a summary like this is that it can help to untangle the less obvious, if I have misrepresented any views please don’t hesitate to put the boot in!

BT23-1 RF5 FVA 7021
1967 Jack Brabham
1968 Irish Racing Cars/Tommy Reid Ford Twin Cam, retained till
1970 Walter Kinear
1971 Nelson Todd
1973 Maurice Stirling
1982 for sale by Northdown Racing, Ripley, Surrey
1984 Jon Bradburn
1985 Andrew Fellowes
now with John Moulds


BT23-2 RF6 FVA 7012
1967 Denny Hulme/Frank Gardner
1968 Walter Habegger (see 4), but borrowed back by Hulme after BT23-5 crash
1969 Scuderia Picchio Rosso/Enzo Corti (23-4 scratched on chassis, -B.M.)
1970 Vittorio Brambilla

BT23-3 RF8 FVA 7003
1967 Frank Gardner
1968 Xavier Perrot
1969 destroyed by Perrot (at Nurburgring?)

BT23-4 FVA 7008
1967 Winkleman for Rees
1968 Walter Habbeger (see 2)
1969 Bruno Fray [this number sometimes ascribed to Corti's car which was given the wrong plate at a rebuild] C.T.

BT23-5
1967 Winkleman for Rindt & van Lennep
1968 Denny Hulme, accident NZ
Feo Stanton
Graham Hepburn
(Les Sargent)
1981 Denis Lupton, Melbourne
1983 George Goodare, Sydney

BT23-6 FVA 7027
1967 Witley Racing Services/Robin Widdows
1967 Sold to Mitsubishi to produce Colt F2
1968 (Canada for Dave Webster, or is this BT23-9?)
2003 for sale USA

BT23-7
1967 Mitter
1968 (Norbert?) or Werner Lindermann then to (perhaps BT23-9 D.M.)
1969 Lindermann/Montan Racing
1970 Montan Racing/Helmut Gall, destroyed

BT23-8
1967 Nanni Galli with Alfa engine
1968 Giorgio Pianta
1969 (Etienne Vigoureux as F3, see BT23-9)
or Albert Poon at Macau
-still in Italy a year or two back, C.T.

BT23-9
David Bridges for Brian Redman
1968 (Canada for Dave Webster, or is this BT23-7?)
1969 (Etienne Vigoureux as F3 see BT23-8)

BT23A 2300cc
1967 Jack Brabham, Tasman Cup Winner
David McKay
Gerg Cusack
Peter Simms, retains

BT23B-1
1967 Mildren/Gardner, Mike Hawley A/S 16 Jun p.73
1968 Bob Rose A/S 19 Jul. p.37
1969 Gary & Agnes Mickel
2005 NSW

BT23B-2
1967 Vogele, 3rd, Monza May 28th,
nothing more ‘till Willy Widar, to Jean Louis Gillet, to John Harper, to Phillip Walker
2003 H & H auctions 7th May, did not sell, est. 75 to 85,000 pounds UK
2004 Legends Racing

BT23B-3
1967 G Pitt
1968 Tony lanfranchi
JD Lewis, Roy Pike for Jack Smith, killed in the car in ’69, sold to Canada for
1969 Cordts. Mosport, 7th entered by Paul Seitz

BT23B-4?
Hawley?



BT23C-1
1967 Jack Brabham, Frank Gardner
1968 Piers Courage, Laurence Brownlie
1968 Piko Troberg, Harry Stiller as F3?
1969 Graham McRae, Alistair Walker
1970 Walter Kinnear, Bob Howlings
1971 Rodney Seow, Singapore
1980 Mike Truter, Singapore
1983 Brian Wilson, retains 2006

BT23C-2
1967 Frank Gardner?
1968 Frank Lythgoe, Peter Gethin
1969 Whitmore, Don Godden
1973 A/S 1st March p. 56 for sale Low Cost Racing BT23C-2 ex Gethin
1974 A/S 28th Nov. p. 57 BT23C ex Gethin for sale 01 567 3941

BT23C-3

BT23C-4
1968 Chris Lambert, destroyed at Zandvoort

BT23C-5
1968 Winkleman for Rindt
1969 Ecurie Ecosse/Graham Birrell
1973 Joe Applegarth
2003 Justin Segal, West Bloomfield, USA
2006 Private collection, UK
(note. Frank Curcio, NSW has remains of a chassis believed to be ex 23C-5)

BT23C-6
1968 Max Mosley
1969 Peter Parnell, ZA (see BT23C-10)
1970 Arnold Charlton

BT23C-7
1968 Frank Williams for Piers Courage
1969 Roly Levis,
Baron Robertson crashed, Phil Harris (see BT23C-17) rebuilt as F Ford by Phil Harris, returned to UK late 80’s, acquired by Bobby Rahal, major rebuild by Phil Simkin, for sale 2004 $95,000

BT23C-8
1968 Kurt Ahrens
1969-70 Bernd Terbec
1977 Bill Morris

BT23C-9
1968 Church Farm Racing for Derek Bell
1968-9 Laurence Brownlie

BT23C-10
1968 Malcom Payne
1969 Garth McGilliwie, ZA (see BT23C-6)
1970 Tony Dean
1971 Rod Pickering
1972 A/S 2nd March p.52 for sale, Rod Pickering
1972 Bob Howlings
1973 Bob Snelson
no more ‘till
2006 Private collection, UK

BT23C-11
1968 Winklemann for Rees & Mitter
1969 Bill Ivy, then to Brian Cullen after Ivy’s bike crash
1970 Brian Cullen (mechanic Steve Mills)
no more ‘till
1990 Mark Raymond or Rayment, UK
2004 for sale by Maverick Motorsport

BT23C-12
1968 Frank Williams for Manfredini
1969 Frank Williams for Guthrie
1969? Bob Gerard for Widdows & Hart
1970-1 Gerry Tyzack
1971 maybe Robin Darlington? –C.T.
(1971 A/S Nov.11th p.46 BT23C for sale ex Gerard, Traco Chev, DG300?)
1986 Adrian Thomas
1990 Monte Shalett
1998 Mark Leonard/G.P. Motors, La Jolla, CA
Peter Bull

BT23C-14
1968 Frank Williams for Carlos Piaretti, Temporada

BT23C-15
1968 Eduardo Copello, Temporada

BT23C-16
1968 Frank Williams for Juan Manuel Bordeu, Temporada,
1969 Frank Williams for Piers Courage, Jackie Ickx, then to
1970 Alistair Walker, then to Gagliardi
(1971 Marcello Gallo F3?)
1973 A/S March 15th p.59 ex Alistair Walker, John Blades Whitley Bay 20976
no more ‘till
2004 restored by Phil & Gary Simkin
2005 Private Collection, UK


BT23C-17
1968 Jorge Cuperio, Temporada
1978 approx destroyed by fire?

BT23D Alfa 2472cc
1968 Frank Gardner, Kevin Bartlett
‘Jim Abbotts with Olds, Chris Murphy killed hill climb’ -Ray Bell
(1978 destroyed by fire?) -D.M.

BT23E-1
Rebuilt late 80’s, sold to Art Valdez, USA

BT23F-1
2004 Dave Darrow, Canada

BT23G-1

BT23G-2

[Andrew Fellowes]

spelling -again.

GREG Cusack not Gerg

Is it BT23A or BT23A-1?

[David McKinney]

Some observations:

BT23-1
I have Kinnear till 1972, when he sold to Roy Courtney, then Stirling 73

BT23-2
I don’t have Habegger, but an unknown American who didn’t get a chance to race it before it was reclaimed for Hulme, then Picchio Rossi

BT23C-1
chronology a bit astray
1967 works/Brabham and Gardner
1968 Troberg early, then Stiller F3, then Williams/Courage F2 from Albi
1969 Brownlie and McRae NZ, McRae Europe
I don’t have either Walker or Kinnear against this number

BT23C-4
I have Scuderia Picchio Rosso/Enzo Corti against this in 1969 - BT23?

BT23C-6
As I think I’ve mentioned, I have Garth McGillwie in this in 1969, not Parnell

BT23C-7
Just to protect Baron Robertson’s memory, the car was crashed during his ownership, but not by him!

BT23C-8
Owned for past few years by David Brown

BT23C-9
No known Brownlie connection with this car

BT23C-10
Again, Parnell rather than McGillwie in 1969
Also Howlings between Dean and Pickering in 1970, then again in 1972

BT23C-11
I have Harold and Gerry McGarrity in this in 1973

BT23C-12
add Kelvin Lambeth in HSCC racing 1988/89

BT23C-14
Cacho Fangio also drove this one for Williams in the Temporada

BT23C-15
entered by Berta for Copello (and also Reutemann) in the Temporada
Believed retained by Berta for some years afterwards

BT23C-17
I have this with Squadra Tartaruga/Xavier Perrot from mid 1969, and Kurt Beuss 1970
I’m not sure that it was the same BT23C-17 that Baron Robertson raced in NZ 1971-72, Kelvin Cameron 1973, and destroyed by fire c1978

I’ll have a look at the bigger-engined cars after work

[Ted Walker]

BT23b-1 still in UK 2006.BT23b-2 still in UK 2006. BT23b-3What proof do we have that it went to Canada after Jack Smiths accident ????I thought the engine and box were removed.The engine going into the "tasman anglia" the chassis ?????(Jack Smith was Canadian) Only 3 cars were constructed.

[Chris Townsend]

23F-1 originally Bill Gubelmann I think, then Al Justasson.
Will extract from FB records and post later

Chris

[Bryan Miller]

Andrew,

BT23B-1 isn't correct , the car here is the ex Mildren ex Coombes/G.Hill chassis which David McKinney believed to be -1 , however the car started life as BT16 , F2-8-65 , never went near Agnes and Gray Mickel in hillclimbs in the U.K.
This is the car nearing a long and costly rebuild owned by Rob. McMillan in Sydney.

Bryan.

[David McKinney]

As promised....

BT23B-1
Mildren 1967
Niel Allen 1967-68
Col Green 1968-71
?Neville Rear WA 1972

I have different numbers from yours for the other 23Bs:
•B2 for Pitt > Pike > Jack Smith; Al Pease 1970, back to UK and Jack Smith 1972 (and his accident)
•B3 for Hawley 67, Bob Rose 68, Mickels 1969-70
•unknown no. for Vögele etc
but I am prepared to accept these are wrong!
(I still make that four cars, Ted!)

BT23D
restored to original by Ian Tate 1987

Don’t know about any Fs or Gs

[allenbrown]

I agree with the histories of what you call B2 and with what you call B3 but I don't agree with the numbers. The third BT23B was Vögele's. If one BT23B/1 was sold to Australia and another BT23B/1 sold to Hawley, I woudn't be totally surprised. This seems to be what happened a couple of years earlier with BT14 FL-1-65. An MRD tax dodge maybe? Or just man in charge of chassis plate stamping who couldn't count?

Allen

[Bryan Miller]

Allen,

I don't think you can say that a BT23 was sold to Australia , F2-8-65 appears to have been returned to the works and altered at the works to accept Climax 2.5 FPF and HD5 Hewland in the style of the BT23 series cars with limitations , e.g the Correct BT23 cars were fitted with magnesium front uprights , whereas the car here ,F2-8-65 still retains BT early series Triumph Herald/Spitfire uprights , I know this as I rebuilt the whole sorry front end.

Bryan.

[Andrew Fellowes]

Al Pease BT23B, 1/7/70
http://www.autocourse.ca/photos/sais...awa/index.html

Chassis number?
http://www.fortunecity.co.uk/pitstop...rtier_BT23.jpg

[David McKinney]

Bryan
I've always been aware of the Coombs/Mildren car history, but am sure its plate said BT23B-1 when it appeared in the 1967 Tasman - or if my memory's faulty about that, it was certainly described as a BT23B

[Andrew Fellowes]

So is a suggestion that;

F2-8-65 is the Mildren car
BT23B-1 is Hawley, Mickels etc.,
BT23B-2 is Vogele (so say Legends Racing)
BT23B-3 is Pitt, Cordts etc.,

which is the 4 cars so BT23B-4 did not exist?

Thats assuming Legends are correct, that would only leave 1 & 3 to be possibly swapped around

[Andrew Fellowes]

if Legends are not correct then as David says (sorry I didn't mean to ignore your list quite so blatantly);

BT23B-2 Pitt, Cordts
BT23B-3 Hawley, Mickels
which would by default make
BT23B-1 Vogele

[Bryan Miller]

David, never for one moment was I questioning your call out .
In period here it seemed to be known as nothing if you get my drift , whereas cars like Jack's BT23A-1 were given a fine tooth comb going over.
Did Charles Vogele have an earlier BT11A FPF car.?????????

Bryan.

[David McKinney]

Being away from my records as we speak, I cannot be 100% sure, but am fairly certain a BT11-FPF did rank among Vogele's various Brabhams

I'll try later to dig out references to the Mildren "BT23B" from 1967

[Ted Walker]

Vogele did in fact own a BT4,11A and 23B. I was involved with the BT11A and 23B returning to the UK.When we removed the wheels they still had his name on them.The car stillhas its original plate BT23B-2 I have photos that I took on the debut of the Hawley car clearly showing its plate23B-1 its possible that a "ffiddle plate" was done as for the BT4 (FJ-11-62) thats sitting in front of me.

[allenbrown]

Originally Posted by Bryan Miller

Allen, I don't think you can say that a BT23 was sold to Australia.

I didn't. David did. I was just trying to explain how that might be possible if BT23B/1 was the Hawley car.

[David McKinney]

Originally Posted by David McKinney

I'll try later to dig out references to the Mildren "BT23B" from 1967

Confession time
I've checked more than a dozen 1967 Tasman references and none of them mentions BT23B
I wondered then if my source had been a Brabham model history article - in Autosport?
At which point the thought struck me that perhaps I'd read something to the effect that the BT23B was the F2-based FPF model, and jumped to the conclusion that this reference must have been to the Mildren/Gardner car.
It embarasses me to admit that the more I think about it, the more I suspect this is the likely explanation for my assumption (I was very young at the time
)
Apologies if I came close to messing up history

[Bryan Miller]

Allen,
I didn't mean ''you'' as in personally , but ''you'' as in anybody.
Do we know any first appearances of the U.K./ Europe based BT23's , the Mildren car was being used as a spare by Coombes/ Hill till mid 1966 to back up their Matra , the car was here in time for the Hordern Trophy at Warwick Farm 1st week of December and would presumably have been sea freighted out ,6/8 weeks timeframe on that , so built/modified during August/Sept , as Frank Gardner seemed to be the instigator of an F2 car with an FPF 2.5 this car would seem to be more of a prototype for the BT23B and to a lesser extent the BT23A.
Incidentally Kevin Bartlett told me a few years ago when I asked why after the Tasman the team had retained the BT11A and sold the F2 based car that the F2 car wasn't ''nice'', not Kevin's words exactly .

[Bryan Miller]

The rest of the history of F2-8-65 / nee BT23B is as follows ,
Neil Rear , Western Australia fited Ford Twin-cam , car ended up in W.A. for many years in the hands of photographer Julian Cowan , [ now deceased] , his widow consigned the car to Goodmans in Sydney for auction 11th August 2002 , where the car was purchased by the current owner Rob. McMillan.