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24 Jul 2001, 08:29 (Ref:120955) | #1 | ||
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Another one bites the dust...
I've heard a nasty rumour that Historic Motor Racing magazine is no more.
This really saddens me, as this is what - the second, third time that Graham Gauld has tried to market a quality, scholarly Historic magazine, and come a cropper. It's not for the lack of a target audience, surely? There are hundreds of competitors out there, let alone the thousands of spectators who rush out to see them. And any journal that carries such an excellent study on Masten Gregory is all right with me...! Did you buy it? And if you looked at what was on offer and passed on it, what would have made it an essential read for you? Was it too esoteric? Too rarified? And as an aside, is it actually possible to make a success of a new niche magazine when the big distributors like WH Smith assume the market is covered when they stock "Motor Sport"? Especially when Haymarket tell them that it is.... |
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24 Jul 2001, 09:38 (Ref:120994) | #2 | |
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I fear maybe it's not, Tim. But if I were going to try, i'd get in contact with as many people in the sport as I could and offer them an incentive to promote the thing - websites, drivers who could run logos on their cars, etc., maybe advertise in raceday programs - just to get word out on the street.
I have to confess that i've never heard of this publication, let alone seen a copy - seems to me that maybe he hasn't done his job right... |
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24 Jul 2001, 09:38 (Ref:120995) | #3 | ||
The Honourable Mallett
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Tim,
Take a look at our forum here. You'll struggle to find anything about historic racing, but there's loads of racing history. That may give you the answer. Everybody knows about Fangio but not many people know allen Lloyd or Martin Stretton. That's what Haymarket have done with Motorsport. They tend to leave race reports to the classic car mags. Hence the demise of HMR. BTW, don't think I ever saw it on the newstands. |
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24 Jul 2001, 09:41 (Ref:120996) | #4 | |
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Maybe this type of publication is an ideal candiadte to be run as a website ? Just a thought.
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24 Jul 2001, 09:45 (Ref:120999) | #5 | |||
The Honourable Mallett
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24 Jul 2001, 12:04 (Ref:121075) | #6 | ||
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See http://www.racecar.co.uk/hmrn/index.html For info. We were subscribers from the start, although it was bl**dy difficult to find out how to subscribe..... Its a shame that WHSmiths has so much power in the marketplace. As for content, I'd say only about 30-40% was reports of historic races, the rest was racing history, and very well written too. |
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24 Jul 2001, 12:17 (Ref:121081) | #7 | ||
The Honourable Mallett
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The original mag was a type of A4 printed flyer. I first came across it in 1990. I believe I even contributed at one time, but don't quote me.
However the real point is that although it may well have loads of historic info and well written, don't we have books for that sort of thing? I'm not sure but the immediacy of Historic racing seems to be lost on people. I sometimes think that the majority of enthusiasts would rather rake over old times rthan rejoice in the chance to see the older cars racing. And that's my point about this forum. We spend ages taliking about the "late greats" but no time at all on the world of Historic Racing. Its a sign of the times I guess. |
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24 Jul 2001, 12:26 (Ref:121086) | #8 | ||
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Unfortunately, this is just another example of a failed magazine - the news trade in the UK is littered with them, partly because of the antiquated way the trade is run by three monopolistic wholesalers: WH Smith, Menzies and Surridge Dawson. They carve up the country between themselves, allocate themselves exclusive territories and discourage competition - if your local newsagent is not satisfied with the service he gets from (say) Smiths, he can't tell them to get lost, because no-one else can or will supply him: not much incentive there for the wholesaler to offer a decent service!!!
Having said that, I don't think Graham Gauld can have done much of a job in selling the mag in to the wholesalers - I deal with one of two Surridge Dawson warehouses in Bristol, which between them cover a swathe of the country from Cheltenham to Bournemouth and from Swindon to North Devon and neither of them stocked the mag, nor could they supply it!! Last edited by Vitesse; 24 Jul 2001 at 12:29. |
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24 Jul 2001, 12:27 (Ref:121087) | #9 | ||
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It is extremely hard/impossible to set up a new niche magazine. This is the reason that we put theGrid on the Net. Even with it so easy for people to send us copy, a lot of club/national racers can't be bothered. We get complaints saying 'why don't you cover me?'.....
If anyone wants to help, I'd be happy to set up a historical race site.... |
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24 Jul 2001, 13:03 (Ref:121102) | #10 | ||
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I agree entirely about the race reporting, however. In fact HMRN only really covered the 'blue riband' races such as Goodwood, Monaco, Laguna Seca etc. I want to see reports from HRSR, CSCC, HSCC meetings etc. And where do I find them? In Autosport - an ostensibly 'modern' mag! This is, of course, no bad thing, as it helps to open up historic motorsport to a wider audience, but maybe its time that Motorsport took such feelings on board and devoted a bit more space to 'modern historic' motorsport - after all most of their advertising revenue (and a consideable amount of their subscription) comes from those actively engaged in it (and its nice to see your name in the comics on occasion!) |
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24 Jul 2001, 18:06 (Ref:121184) | #11 | |||
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The fact about HMR is that it was badly managed. It was published in the USA, edited in France, designed in Hong Kong, printed in the UK and its advertising agents were in the UK too. It gathered virtually no advertising, so needed a healthy readership or a fair amount of funding until the readership and advertising built up. Oddly I found my first and only copy in W H Smith, admittedly in the rue de Rivoli in Paris. You don't expect a tiny circulation magazine from Grand Rapids Michigan to be on a British wholesaler's distribution list without some justification. I'm still amazed it got as far as Paris. Shame because it had some good articles, though the pictures were of variable quality. I just pray that Automobile Historique goes from strength to strength. They carry virtually no advertising, but they assure me their circulation is 20,000. It is the epitome of what a magazine on the subject should be. And the main shareholder is a racer of historic cars - Flavien Marçais won his race at the Pau historic meeting in the 1953 Cooper Bristol MK11 built for Horace Gould, hence a long report in the current issue. It's F Marçais' grandfather's archive that provides much of the source material for the magazine. Sorry to wax so lyrical for so long but vive Automobile Historique !! |
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25 Jul 2001, 05:45 (Ref:121407) | #12 | |||||
The Honourable Mallett
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And what about talking about the owners of the cars? How they prepared them and what technical changes they can make to meet the regs? We need some posters talikang about these things as well. Quote:
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26 Jul 2001, 22:16 (Ref:122294) | #13 | ||
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send some stukk to http://www.thegrid.co.uk
the reason we set it up was to cover national & club motor racing. |
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27 Jul 2001, 09:19 (Ref:122488) | #14 | |||
The Honourable Mallett
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27 Jul 2001, 09:55 (Ref:122495) | #15 | ||
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Three points Peter:
1. There are magazines that cover your interest - Automobile Historique covers contempory historic racing. Autosport Club section has good coverage. On-line there's Bolide. But generally the races are covered by monthly magazines which are way out of date on publication. Used to be the same with Motor Sport in the '50s and '60s. 2. I've said this before - if you think there's some thing worth discussing, then post it. Maybe I or someone else will respond. But don't forget - this is a world-wide forum; we can't all be at Silverstone or Thruxton every weekend. 3. I do post when I'm off to Montlhéry or wherever, and generally I get zero response. Forty five years ago I got myself into a load of trouble with racers of historic stuff, by suggesting that they weren't Fangio etc. Just about then I became friends with Willy Green and my attidude changed - he's a maestro. So post away Peter and maybe you'll get a response. It's down to you. But no-one will do it for you. |
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27 Jul 2001, 11:12 (Ref:122536) | #16 | ||
The Honourable Mallett
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I am aware that there are loads of magazines which cover the subject but this is a discussion forum and as such we don't discuss it.
The reason for my dismay is that I've been asked if it would be worth splitting Historic Racing away from this forum. I don't believe it is because I think it goes hand in hand with Racing History. Other questions spring to mind. Where is the 250F that Fangio used in the '57 German GP? If it is owned by a racer, what is it doing at the moment. You see the topics do run together. I'm not worried whether the races are at Thruxton or Laguna Seca. So I fail to see your point there Kpy. But the differences in regulations would make a topic of their own don't you think? I would love to post about historic racing but geographically its not possible for me to attend any events and normally if it is, I'm racing my car anyway. I remember Willy driving a Lister Knobbly Jaguar at Brands. In fell in love with the car and to me its much better than the D Type. But they weren't as successful. Why? And why are they now much more competitive? So there are some questions. Maybe someone could start a topic for each. As the co-moderator I don't want to push people in any direction. |
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27 Jul 2001, 14:22 (Ref:122616) | #17 | ||
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Peter Mallett
[B]I am aware that there are loads of magazines which cover the subject but this is a discussion forum and as such we don't discuss it.]/B] Well fine, but as Sam Goldwin once said - Include me out. Good luck with the Capri racing. |
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27 Jul 2001, 14:47 (Ref:122628) | #18 | |||
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Re: Another one bites the dust...
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We don't discuss it |
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28 Jul 2001, 06:18 (Ref:122871) | #19 | ||||
The Honourable Mallett
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kpy
[B][QUOTE]Originally posted by Peter Mallett [B]I am aware that there are loads of magazines which cover the subject but this is a discussion forum and as such we don't discuss it.]/B] Quote:
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2 Sep 2002, 02:33 (Ref:370930) | #20 | ||
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Peter Mallett,
Just signed on. A year ago, you asked about the 250F that Fangio used to win the 1957 German GP at the Nurburgring. That was chassis 2529. It is currently owned by Hartmut Ibing of Germany. He runs the car every once in a while (this years Goodwood FoS)and also lets others run it to (Willie Green June track day at Donington). Cheers, Barrie |
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2 Sep 2002, 14:07 (Ref:371272) | #21 | |
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re relevance . . . Im trying to build/restore a fairly humble car to race, for several reasons, the MK1 Cortina is my fave car, to build a GT and race prepare it is about all I could afford to do, and I enjoy it all, from welding up rotten chassis rails to going to historic events, at the moment either helping out or just specatating.
If I could take my own car to events and compete, as well as enjoy all the other aspects, it would be fantastic. tracing the history has not been so easy, GT's wherent raced that much (as opposed to the LOtus) so not much info seems to ba available, although I have managed to settle on a spec for the car which I can afford . . .how original it is I have no idea though, al I want is to get on a track some day and get to the finish without making a complete tit of myself! the only publications I'm aware of which touch this subject are motorsport, classic Ford and various classic car mags have brief articles, but usually as has been said here, just the big boys and big cars. |
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2 Sep 2002, 19:56 (Ref:371551) | #22 | ||
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I have never heard of this magazine so i wont miss it! However if it was trying to give more in depth reports on current historic racing and the cars out on the circuit then i am sorry to hear of its demise! i race against some fairly well known cars and names but sadlly due to budget constraints I am unlikely to be up at the pointy end (although i have had a class win!) I would love to read more than a 2 or 3 liner on mine and other historic races (which is all Autosport do as one column will cover a whole meting). Why not let such a magazine have race reports on the european historic racing scene. It sounds to me that if someone orgainised it properly it culd be great magazine so all you budding publishers out there get on with it! but make sure its in English!!
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9 Sep 2002, 07:41 (Ref:376131) | #23 | ||
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Simon
The magazine you need is Historic Motor Racing News, a subscriber-only monthly newsletter which does just what you ask. Contact them at hmrn@dial.pipex.com |
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9 Sep 2002, 10:33 (Ref:376269) | #24 | ||
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i do get that and it is good. but it could cover a lot more!
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9 Sep 2002, 11:32 (Ref:376328) | #25 | |||
The Honourable Mallett
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But if there was a mag which ran historical info concerning the build of historic touring cars it would get my vote. I'd love to find an in depth build spec for the group 2 Cologne Capri for instance. |
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