Is 888 the elephant in the room at V8SC ?

[davester]

No TV deal, diminishing TV audience?

Is 888's dominance the factor that correlates with the troubled empire?

The sport was built on Ford vs Holden old school rivalry. It has good and bad moments in history. Then TC came along and got it moving nicely. Then 888 came along, were a Ford team, became a Holden team, smashed HRT and hence wiped out the enthusiasm of an army, and maybe, just maybe 888 haven't connected with the displaced HRT army as V8SC would have liked or indeed needed?

Let's be honest, the HRT army was the largest tribe going. But in recent years they have had little reason to tune in. And now in WP ownership guise, blending the HRT and WP brands doesn't help in rebuilding the love from a branding perspective, especially when the technical magic seems to have gone.

When you consider the talent of Tander, Courtney, Rick Kelly, and even that talented boy in blue "SVG" can not even get a sniff of victory, alarm bells must be ringing not only from the competition, but also from within V8SC.

888 have been brilliant, but maybe too brilliant, and maybe combined with their crossing over to Holden has dampened the passions of the rank and file of the sport's fans...and that massive HRT army that formed the backbone of the fans.

Add to this souring recipe the sports current multiple champ has maybe got an image problem when compared to enigmatic heroes Brock, Moffat, Johnson, and Lowndes. Yep, that's a tough call to be making, but I just dont detect the same worship in any measure that Whincup's impressive achievements deserve. He's made Lowndes look second rate, is clearly the #1 yet doesn't seem to have connected like past heroes. I truly respect what Whincup has achieved, but I don't barack for him...I should because I like winners.

Could the sport's resurrection be as simple as HRT/WP getting back into the winners circle? Or has the corporate diluting of the mighty HRT brand by the WP brand wounded the army's tribal following beyond repair?

888 dominance + Whincup image questions + struggling HRT/WP and maybe the displacement of their army seems to equal a world of pain for all.

[Micklegend]

I agree with the above...you can almost hear the collective yawn when JW wins a race, I sometimes think there are bigger cheers for 2nd and third! Not really fair on JW, but thats the racer and personaility he has become. He will never get a cult following as others mentioned. Also, I dont think anyone can make CL look second rate...he has just performed better in recent times according to the results sheet.

Will be interesting to see how things go with Erebus and Nissan in relation to the TV and on track audiences.

I think V8SC got it right letting others into the game....or it would have been killed off eventually.

[formerf1champ]

Originally Posted by davester

No TV deal, diminishing TV audience?

Is 888's dominance the factor that correlates with the troubled empire?

No. Thier dominance correlates with the regulations, making the cars more and more a spec formula.

Originally Posted by davester

The sport was built on Ford vs Holden old school rivalry. It has good and bad moments in history. Then TC came along and got it moving nicely. Then 888 came along, were a Ford team, became a Holden team, smashed HRT and hence wiped out the enthusiasm of an army, and maybe, just maybe 888 haven't connected with the displaced HRT army as V8SC would have liked or indeed needed?

Let's be honest, the HRT army was the largest tribe going. But in recent years they have had little reason to tune in. And now in WP ownership guise, blending the HRT and WP brands doesn't help in rebuilding the love from a branding perspective, especially when the technical magic seems to have gone.

When you consider the talent of Tander, Courtney, Rick Kelly, and even that talented boy in blue "SVG" can not even get a sniff of victory, alarm bells must be ringing not only from the competition, but also from within V8SC.

888 have been brilliant, but maybe too brilliant, and maybe combined with their crossing over to Holden has dampened the passions of the rank and file of the sport's fans...and that massive HRT army that formed the backbone of the fans.

So, what are you saying? Make it so that HRT win everything? No thanks! If their flaky fans don't like it, they can get stuffed!

Originally Posted by davester

Add to this souring recipe the sports current multiple champ has maybe got an image problem when compared to enigmatic heroes Brock, Moffat, Johnson, and Lowndes. Yep, that's a tough call to be making, but I just dont detect the same worship in any measure that Whincup's impressive achievements deserve. He's made Lowndes look second rate, is clearly the #1 yet doesn't seem to have connected like past heroes. I truly respect what Whincup has achieved, but I don't barack for him...I should because I like winners.

What do you expect him to do? Moffat was no comedian.

Originally Posted by davester

Could the sport's resurrection be as simple as HRT/WP getting back into the winners circle? Or has the corporate diluting of the mighty HRT brand by the WP brand wounded the army's tribal following beyond repair?

888 dominance + Whincup image questions + struggling HRT/WP and maybe the displacement of their army seems to equal a world of pain for all.

No, definitely not that.

[formerf1champ]

Originally Posted by Micklegend

I dont think anyone can make CL look second rate...

He does make Craig appear lazy and complacent.

Originally Posted by davester

he has just performed better in recent times

Recent? Only the last six seasons!

Originally Posted by davester

according to the results sheet.

I'm not sure what else matters, tbh.

Originally Posted by davester

Will be interesting to see how things go with Erebus and Nissan in relation to the TV and on track audiences.

Novelty will wear off. People won't give a ****.

[Reload]

Is the problem the 888 elephant in the room or the mice that didn't roar ?

[Umai Naa]

Well that's just it.

It's well known that there were cars competing in the '12 season that were simply making up the numbers. Questionable talent, cars that were clearly uncompetitive for reasons relating to team politics, failure to continue development, and so on.

Could all change if they kept the grids capped to 28, but introduce a few extra cars to qualifiying...

[GTRMagic]

Apparently there shall be 6x 888-constructed VF Commodores on the grid in season 2013.

Perhaps the angle that should be taken is why the 4 cars not run by the constructor may or may not perform as well as those from the mother ship.

Then start worrying about the rest of the field flattering to deceive on occasion..

[TWRv12]

Or blame Ford for dumping 888?

[Racenut]

Why do people insist on having a shot at the team that is doing the best job?
They should have a look through the feild and look at the ones that shouldnt be there.
For as long as I can remember there has been one team that dominates (different eras) HDT, Gibson, HRT, 888 among others. It should just motuvate the others to catch up

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by Racenut

Why do people insist on having a shot at the team that is doing the best job?
They should have a look through the feild and look at the ones that shouldnt be there.
For as long as I can remember there has been one team that dominates (different eras) HDT, Gibson, HRT, 888 among others. It should just motuvate the others to catch up

Ahh... But what if you dont know how..

[F J Nedos]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Ahh... But what if you dont know how..

Then bloody well learn! Those teams had to. And work hard/harder.

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Ahh... But what if you dont know how..

........and don't have the resources or budget to close the gap.

[The Generals Army]

Originally Posted by bluesport

........and don't have the resources or budget to close the gap.

Same could be said for any sport. The domination of any team club etc doesnt mean that the sport is dying.

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Ahh... But what if you dont know how..

Originally Posted by bluesport

........and don't have the resources or budget to close the gap.

Originally Posted by The Generals Army

Same could be said for any sport. The domination of any team club etc doesnt mean that the sport is dying.

There wasn't any mention of the sport dying in the above posts.

[STEALTHY]

Storm in a teacup.

The problem is not with the best team winning, its that the other teams cant find regular pace. Any fans who are butthurt about their team not performing should contact them, or better yet, donate some money, so they can get some performance/personnel gains (unless you support FPR, they'll just find their own way to stuff everything up).

[FAS33]

Originally Posted by STEALTHY

Storm in a teacup.

The problem is not with the best team winning, its that the other teams cant find regular pace. Any fans who are butthurt about their team not performing should contact them, or better yet, donate some money, so they can get some performance/personnel gains (unless you support FPR, they'll just find their own way to stuff everything up).

Lol that is a problem though. taking it to extreme but if one team were to dominate for a long time and doesnt look like T8 will he slowing anytime soon. It does begon to be predictable racing and turns some rounds very boring esp if it were a boring track like QR or abu dabi. be honest how exciting was the race at abu dabi? Or whincup 10 secs in front with 10 laps to go, even if it went yellow in the last laps, noone can catch him, and if they do its cause hes not driving 100%. If they say Cotf will be more exciting and a more leveled playing field, im all for it. But i doubt itll change much in the way the top 2 teams will go about dominating once again. Would like to see HRT or DJR or even the kelly bros fighting at the front.

[davester]

Just to clarify...this thread is not about bashing 888, they have been brilliant, and achieved (still achieving) what others wish they themselves could do.

The thread is about the correlation between 888's success and the apparent struggles the sport is currently facing...and whether a significant factor in the sport's declining support on TV or at the track is linked to a displaced HRT army of fans, whom no longer feed of the same success they once had. It's difficult in any industry to look elsewhere for blame when your primary income source (in this case the HRT supporters) lose motivation.

[Gaz170]

Can't blame 888 for being too good. Even if it makes racing boring, that's not their fault but rather the fault of those who can't keep up.

[rik]

Originally Posted by davester

The thread is about the correlation between 888's success and the apparent struggles the sport is currently facing...and whether a significant factor in the sport's declining support on TV or at the track is linked to a displaced HRT army of fans, whom no longer feed of the same success they once had. It's difficult in any industry to look elsewhere for blame when your primary income source (in this case the HRT supporters) lose motivation.

You seem to be very focused on HRT? They have declined recently due to the death of the principal, Tom Walkinshaw. I don't think HRT will be revived until a new owner is found. I also have fears for HSV.

Overall the series has issues with the cars, the Commodore used to sell about 90,000 and the Falcon 70,000 cars per year 10 years ago. Today it's 30,000 and 14,000.... And in 2012 the highest selling car is a Mazda3 at 45,000.

So really the problem is that it's taken far too long to allow new manufacturers .

[AussieTimmeh]

Well, to be fair to the OP, you used to see HRT merchandise everywhere. The red army was massive, you couldn't go to the shops without seeing someone wearing something HRT related.

These days, all the people I know who used to be HRT supporters now wear Jack Daniels or 888 merchandise. A few aren't interested in V8s much anymore. They don't seem worried by it, but in my opinion HRT certainly does not have the largest fan base by default anymore. Statistic based purely on my experience with friends and what I see people wearing when I am out and about. I am sure some HRT fan club would love to spout figures about how many people belong to their forums, but unsure how many would be active anymore. I am sure they have a core group of supporters, like any team.

I still raise my eyebrow at acquaintances who used to hate 888 when they were with Ford who now adorn themselves with 888 gear with lions on them. Each to their own; they don't have much else to support I guess.

I go into 2013 with no allegiance to any brand, but if 888 win the first few races again, my interest will decline pretty quickly. Like Schumacher winning so many world championships in a row, or Loeb doing the same, I don't think it's good for the sport long term. Especially in the digital age when there are so many exciting series around the world landed on my doorstep.

[JT.]

it will be a cold day in hell when I start buying 888 merch over HRT

[GTRMagic]

When is the new AMG/Erebus merchandise likely to land?

[Umai Naa]

Originally Posted by JT.

it will be a cold day in hell when I start buying 888 merch over HRT

I take it you're one those who are still wearing the same faded HRT jacket from 15 years ago?

[JT.]

Originally Posted by Umai Naa

I take it you're one those who are still wearing the same faded HRT jacket from 15 years ago?

damn straight

[ff s conscience]

I think its mildly annoying for the average aussie bloke that a pommie team rocks up and starts winning straight away, in any chassis they choose.....

That's what's maybe killed some of the enthusiasm.....