Audi: Will they or wont they? (LMS 2008)

[SALEEN S7R]

Theres been a lot of speculation and rumor regarding Audi joining the LMS during recent months with both Wolfgang Ulrich saying it could be possible and Allan McNish saying that he would like to add a LMS title to his 2 ALMS championships. Does it really make sense for Audi to join the LMS though? In terms of brand recognition perhaps but then they already have the DTM for that although admitedly the DTM is on dodgy ground at the minute. Audi certainly dont need to raise awareness of diesel engines over here in Europe though, which of course is one of the main reasons for them staying over in the ALMS at the moment.

So, will Audi come to the LMS in 2008? And if so in what capacity, would we see a full factory Joest team similar to what we have seen in the ALMS in recent years? Or would we perhaps see privateer teams running the cars with factory backing like Audi Sport UK had in 2004? Either way Peugeot definately could do with some competition in the LMS next year, the only real reason they didnt win all the races were due to reliabilty. Yes Pescarolo, Zytek and Creation werent all that far behind but they werent really on the pace of the Peugeot's and now there is rumor that Peugeot could pull out of the LMS and take part in "selected" ALMS events as well as Le Mans but no LMS for 2008.

Personally I think Audi will join, although perhaps not as a full factory team like we see in the ALMS.

[ThePenguin]

I think that we will see them there, with a full factory team run by Joest.

[duke_toaster]

Originally Posted by SALEEN S7R

Does it really make sense for Audi to join the LMS though? In terms of brand recognition perhaps but then they already have the DTM for that although admitedly the DTM is on dodgy ground at the minute.

Understatement of the week

[JAG]

Audi certainly dont need to raise awareness of diesel engines over here in Europe though, which of course is one of the main reasons for them staying over in the ALMS at the moment.

The minute a company rests on it's laurals and takes a market for granted it loses market share to competitors.

By this logic, no one would race petrol cars as the market is already established.

Diesel race cars are one of the few, road car relevant, racing technologies that can be exploited by a manufactuer.. Even in Europe diesel doesn't have a performance reputation, yet manufactuers will no doubt have an increasing number of performance diesels in the pipeline.

Whats the betting the R8 Supercar has a diesel engine in a few years?

P.S. Ulrich said they would have raced in the LMS in 2007, after Le Mans, but early season accidents led to them being down on spares, so the expected Silverstone exntry never materialised.

I don't think it's either, or, the LMS and ALMS can both be well supported, and TBH Audi will need customer/semi-works cars, to back-up the full factory team at Le Mans, if more manufactuers enter.

Nothing like having numbers to back you up, as Porsche had in the 956/962 days,.

[morwenna]

I'd like to vote yes, but the real answer is I hope so! I'd love to see the R10 racing over here.

[kipper]

I doubt that Audi will run in the LMS as a full works entry; as has been said, they do have the DTM for brand awareness in Europe and whilst it may be having its problems at the moment, it looks as if Audi are remaining commited to the championship. That said, it wouldn't surprise me if a car or two were released to a favoured customer in order to provide some presence in the LMS.

[minimangler]

It says nothing about a works entry...

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by kipper

I doubt that Audi will run in the LMS as a full works entry; as has been said, they do have the DTM for brand awareness in Europe and whilst it may be having its problems at the moment, it looks as if Audi are remaining commited to the championship. That said, it wouldn't surprise me if a car or two were released to a favoured customer in order to provide some presence in the LMS.

That strategy might backfire, though. It would be not usefull for Audi if their privateers got beaten by the Pugs...

[brielga]

They should. I know it is a bit of wishful thinking but in the end it is not only about TV exposure, it is also about winning against a rival like Peugeot. The ALMS is a great showcase but in P1 they are the only ones and with the added LMP2 weight 2008 risks being a walk-over. A semi-works effort(like Veloqx or Goh in past years, Joest would be great) against the 908s would give us great racing... and the chance of their LIVES to the LMS organization to promote a GREAT championship and have people ATTEND th circuits!!!! It's a unique opportunity, too good to be true? Time will tell...

[minimangler]

Originally Posted by brielga

They should. I know it is a bit of wishful thinking but in the end it is not only about TV exposure, it is also about winning against a rival like Peugeot. The ALMS is a great showcase but in P1 they are the only ones and with the added LMP2 weight 2008 risks being a walk-over. A semi-works effort(like Veloqx or Goh in past years, Joest would be great) against the 908s would give us great racing... and the chance of their LIVES to the LMS organization to promote a GREAT championship and have people ATTEND th circuits!!!! It's a unique opportunity, too good to be true? Time will tell...

i wouldn't go quite that far in terms of size of opportunity, but it is a biggy. they better not miss out.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by kipper

I doubt that Audi will run in the LMS as a full works entry; as has been said, they do have the DTM for brand awareness in Europe and whilst it may be having its problems at the moment, it looks as if Audi are remaining commited to the championship. That said, it wouldn't surprise me if a car or two were released to a favoured customer in order to provide some presence in the LMS.

Is it possible to run an R10 without works backing?

All R8's have been run with some factory help.

[Justin Moran]

Originally Posted by ThePenguin

I think that we will see them there, with a full factory team run by Joest.

Fully back that sentiment! Joest would be a logical choice to run the European team. Pedigree speaks for its self.

[Johnny1lap]

I would rather see have pugs v audi instead of pugs v smaller teams,no offence but this year it has been peugeot parrade year,you cant compete. More chances of victory if your the big ones of LMP2

[Mal]

I think we will see them. I think the time is right to move diesel road cars forward in europe and to grab a slice of the performance car market. I think therefore we will see Audi launch one or more sports orientated diesel cars whilst being able to use the R10 race car into proving its sporting heritage.

However I do think the positive comments about going to LMS from Dr Ullrich and Alan McNish etc were probably aimed at the Audi board's ears and not just ours. After all it is not the racing departments decision it is the board and marketing peoples.

[minimangler]

Originally Posted by Mal

However I do think the positive comments about going to LMS from Dr Ullrich and Alan McNish etc were probably aimed at the Audi board's ears and not just ours. After all it is not the racing departments decision it is the board and marketing peoples.

That's a pretty good point, it will cost a lot to split resources.

[TheNewBob]

Originally Posted by Mal

However I do think the positive comments about going to LMS from Dr Ullrich and Alan McNish etc were probably aimed at the Audi board's ears and not just ours. After all it is not the racing departments decision it is the board and marketing peoples.

Well they have to be pretty bloody stupid to ignore it. Such a successful (and already legendary) car and team on their hands, do they know how much they can play that to their advantage, pretty much anywhere?

They can easily push things forwards by competing in the LMS. An example is the noise. Miserable spoilsport residents all over Europe hate lots of loud car sounds, and there is still a general perception with some people that diesels are noisy and lousy. Not nearly as much as there used to be, but the perception still exists. It's still surprising people just how quiet the R10 is.

Now, personally, I really hate quiet racing cars and the R10 is butt ugly in my opinion too, but then again we're already aware of the car on this forum so it's not us they are particularly trying to impress (although their impeccable record is definitely admirable). Those they are trying to impress will have different viewpoints that are much more open to influence.

[Bentley03]

Well, the announcement should come today (in just a couple of hours, I believe?).

I'm not feeling overconfident after Peugeot's recent manoeuvring and statement that they may not do the entire Le Mans Series and that they may take in a few rounds of the ALMS in order to go head to head with Audi. But, I've got everything crossed.

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by Bentley03

Well, the announcement should come today (in just a couple of hours, I believe?).

14:00 in hall 3 of Essen Motorshow. The countdown can begin

I hope Luhr and Rockenfeller will do ALMS, with some of the Audi "oldies" in LMS, but I doubt the exact drivers lineup will not be presented today.

[The Badger]

Id prefer to see McNish-Capello and Rockenfeller-Biela in the LMS .

Let Luhr , Pirro and Werner in ALMS .

[gwyllion]

If Audi really runs 2 cars in ALMS and 2 in LMS, they will need an extra driver. Maybe return of Lehto or Kaffer. Premat is an option as well, but I suspect he will get a new car in DTM (replacing Scheider).

[Bentley03]

Just heard.....

Audi will participate in the Le Mans Series in 2008!

[Antho]

http://www.endurance-info.com/articl...&mode=&order=0

[Mal]

Lets hope LMS fulfil this provision:

"Stable regulations with the clear positioning of the LM P1 sportscar as top category and good TV marketing in Europe are conditions for Audi’s factory involvement in both of the Le Mans series,” explains Head of Audi Motorsport Dr Wolfgang Ullrich.

[gwyllion]

Luhr leaves DTM and goes to R10.

Lineup for Le Mans is the same as this year:

• Biela/Pirro/Werner
• Capello/Kristensen/McNish
• Luhr/Prémat/Rockenfeller

From reading the following, I get the impression that Capello, McNish, Werner and Luhr will do ALMS, as this is

Regular drivers for the sportscar project in the 2008 season will be Dindo Capello, Allan McNish, Marco Werner and Lucas Luhr, the latter moving from the DTM to the Audi R10 TDI. Meanwhile Frank Biela and Emanuele Pirro, the two longest serving and most experienced Audi factory drivers, compete again with the R10 TDI. Audi also wishes to commit the experienced duo to the brand for the long-term as a result of their unstinting service and loyalty to Audi after their active careers.

The DTM lineup does not change. Abt retires and Luhr goes to R10, so 2 new drivers are needed to drive the 2007 cars. One pilot (presumably female) will be paid by Audi to race for Futurecom, like Ickx did the previous years.

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

From reading the following, I get the impression that Capello, McNish, Werner and Luhr will do ALMS.

Mmm, I guess it depends on the amount of cars Audi will enter next year. Three scenarios seems possible: ALMS only, LMS only, ALMS + LMS. But I think the LMS only seems highly unlikely.

In the most optimistic scenario Audi will need 2 extra drivers. How many LMS races overlap with DTM races? Maybe they can use Rockenfeller and Premat.