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Old 29 Sep 2004, 13:07 (Ref:1110340)   #1
Steve Tarrant
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Birmingham street circuit to return?

Just found an article on etracksonline.co.uk suggesting that the Birmingham street circuit could return in May 2006 for touring cars, rather than formula cars.

Now that could be interesting .........................

Last edited by Steve Tarrant; 29 Sep 2004 at 13:08.
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Old 29 Sep 2004, 13:45 (Ref:1110387)   #2
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Kicking-back should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridKicking-back should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Very interesting indeed.

Also talk that the BTCC might race at a ChampCar street circuit in Manchester...
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Old 29 Sep 2004, 15:17 (Ref:1110467)   #3
Stephen Green
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Steve, there is a thread on this subject running in the Trackside Forum.

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Old 2 Oct 2004, 15:09 (Ref:1113400)   #4
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But Touring cars ran on the Superprix track back in 1986/7/8/9/90, so why is everyone saying its going to be Touring Cars rather than single seaters when Touring Cars have already raced on the track lots of times...!!!!!!!??!?!!?
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Old 2 Oct 2004, 16:43 (Ref:1113443)   #5
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err, because it's gonna be for, erm, touring cars - not single seaters?! :confused:
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Old 2 Oct 2004, 16:53 (Ref:1113449)   #6
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Rob29 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridRob29 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Err,Touring cars were the SUPPORT event 1986-90! The boom in interest in the BTCC came later in the 90s.
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Old 2 Oct 2004, 16:53 (Ref:1113450)   #7
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touringlegend should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridtouringlegend should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridtouringlegend should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Last time the Touring Cars were supporting the F3000 (?) but this time they'd be the main attraction.
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Old 3 Oct 2004, 10:08 (Ref:1113840)   #8
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Given how popular the Norisring round of the DTM is, a race around the streets of Birmingham could really be big. Now, if only BTCC cars weren't wimpy little two-litre shopping trolleys....
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Old 3 Oct 2004, 17:22 (Ref:1114124)   #9
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codename_47 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridcodename_47 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I don't know, personally I think if this race gets off the ground, the Manchester idea will be quietly dropped and Champcars will attach themselves to this event instead (and vice versa if there's a problem with Brum)

I personally can't envisage TWO street races in Britain in 2006 (or even THREE if the F1 London thing comes off...ha ha, yeah right), great though that'd be!

One would be more than enough though, and if they could model it on the Surfers Paradise street race in Australia (where pretty much every championship in the country used to get a round, before it all went pear shaped), we could have everything from Champcars to BTCC, F3 down to Clio's and FBMW's on the streets of Brum...what an event that'd be!
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Old 3 Oct 2004, 18:47 (Ref:1114199)   #10
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Originally posted by codename_47
I don't know, personally I think if this race gets off the ground, the Manchester idea will be quietly dropped and Champcars will attach themselves to this event instead (and vice versa if there's a problem with Brum)

I personally can't envisage TWO street races in Britain in 2006 (or even THREE if the F1 London thing comes off...ha ha, yeah right), great though that'd be!

One would be more than enough though, and if they could model it on the Surfers Paradise street race in Australia (where pretty much every championship in the country used to get a round, before it all went pear shaped), we could have everything from Champcars to BTCC, F3 down to Clio's and FBMW's on the streets of Brum...what an event that'd be!
The problem is they can only close the roads for two days - so that is going to restrict the number of championships they can have running. Particularly as most single-seater championships require free practice, qualifying and race on separate days.
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Old 3 Oct 2004, 19:35 (Ref:1114231)   #11
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i think a champ car may be a bit too quick to run round brum safely, they probably would need to improve the roads and safety massively to accomodate them. now a dtm race supported by the btcc would be an ideal, if unlikely, scenario.
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Old 3 Oct 2004, 21:24 (Ref:1114337)   #12
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improving the road surface would be a must, and would bristol streets forecort need remodling ??? As it was very cramped there before, and would be even more so now with how much BTCC has exploded in last few years. More TV time and more spectators pilling into the city. In order for it to work long term they would need to build a real pit area and Improve train stations around the city to accomadate the amount of people who would come up as driving into brum with most of the centre closed of is crazy. Also how would ford (or whoever is at bristol street now) feel about being booted out for a series they dont contend in ??? (btcc i mean, champcars maybe a diffrent kettle of fish thou),I mean if they where to look at long term investment, and the council wanted a real pit building where the pits last where. Or would they press for proposals that have been put forward since the demise of street track ? But On central News when it was mentioned they seemed to point around the old track that was used.
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Old 2 Aug 2007, 17:34 (Ref:1979228)   #13
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More discussion here: http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98953
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Old 3 Aug 2007, 15:08 (Ref:1979931)   #14
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perhaps a special duel around brum between the BTCC and STCC perhaps
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Old 15 Aug 2007, 12:05 (Ref:1989492)   #15
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hindy should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridhindy should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
We discussed this on Midweek Motorsport (Sky Ch 0157 and www.radiolemans.com at 8pm Uk time every week) a couple of weeks ago when it was suggested that there might be a British Rally event staged (sorry) on the streets of Brum.

If a council wants to close a road they can do it by local ordanance as per the 'Special Event' provisions of the Road Traffic Act. However this would only apply for display or processions, racing or any kind (incluidng time trials) is SPECIFICALLY excluded. Racing on the public highway is an offence and anyone who organises or takes part in such activity would be liable to prosecution.

To have a race - on public roads - requires an act of Parliament. At present only Birmingham has this and it identifies the exact roads and distances on those roads that can be used. i.e. ANy new event would have to be on the SAME track as used for the Superpirx.

Obtaining a new act for Birmingham - or indeed any other city - would take several years and a LOT of public funds. I'm not sure with the current prediliction of councils for car bashing (especially Manchester who are applying for toll charge to be applied for all roads inside the M60!!) than any council wants to openly support a project like this.

Hope this helps

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Old 15 Aug 2007, 12:07 (Ref:1989493)   #16
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ss_collins should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridss_collins should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridss_collins should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridss_collins should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
I wonder if Symes would ever give a track licence to the super prix course
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Old 15 Aug 2007, 14:58 (Ref:1989607)   #17
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And who would "Symes" be?
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Old 15 Aug 2007, 15:29 (Ref:1989621)   #18
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JimW should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridJimW should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridJimW should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridJimW should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid

John Symes is the MSA's risk management expert and responsible for the approval of venues which require a licence from the MSA.

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Old 15 Aug 2007, 15:33 (Ref:1989623)   #19
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I wonder if Symes would ever give a track licence to the super prix course
Why wouldn't he? Standards have changed, of course, but I don't remember it being considered dangerous when F3000 ran there.
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Old 15 Aug 2007, 15:42 (Ref:1989629)   #20
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JimW should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridJimW should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridJimW should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridJimW should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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Originally Posted by hindy
To have a race - on public roads - requires an act of Parliament. At present only Birmingham has this and it identifies the exact roads and distances on those roads that can be used. i.e. Any new event would have to be on the SAME track as used for the Superprix.
Well nearly. As a new act would be required then the roads to be covered would be specified in that act.

Also what about the road closures for the Jim Clark rally? Same issues and that seems to happen each year.

Compared to the Birmingham politics/money things, I suspect the parliamentary issues are modest.

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Old 15 Aug 2007, 15:45 (Ref:1989632)   #21
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JimW should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridJimW should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridJimW should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridJimW should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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Why wouldn't he? Standards have changed, of course, but I don't remember it being considered dangerous when F3000 ran there.
Dangerous? - of course it was dangerous. Its a street circuit. Ask the chap who assaulted the market wall and the one who went flying over my head and nearly into an underpass. (To name but two.)

Half the fun of it.

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Old 15 Aug 2007, 16:28 (Ref:1989650)   #22
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ss_collins should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridss_collins should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridss_collins should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridss_collins should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
thats it but perhaps times have changed and John is perhaps more cautious than those who went before him. Jim Clark has its own act to put the rally on but only Birmingham can run races - though London would have done had Bernie not asked too much wedge.
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Old 15 Aug 2007, 18:20 (Ref:1989729)   #23
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there aren't that many safety concerns. i mean if they can hold a round on that a1 gp track in beijing, they can hold a race anywhere!!
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Old 15 Aug 2007, 20:59 (Ref:1989803)   #24
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ss_collins should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridss_collins should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridss_collins should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridss_collins should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Well I dunno if John would agree with you there - might be fun to find out. Next time I see him I'll see if hes up for a fun trip to Brum...
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Old 16 Aug 2007, 09:27 (Ref:1990075)   #25
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Originally Posted by JimW
Well nearly. As a new act would be required then the roads to be covered would be specified in that act.

Also what about the road closures for the Jim Clark rally? Same issues and that seems to happen each year.


Regards

Jim
JC Rally took about 5 years to get the act - and that was in Scotland of course - slightly different rules - which is why Mull used to have a closed road Rally. JC Rally only has rolling road closures not full time.

As for B'ham - I have looked at the terms which were not breached and there was no time limit so the original act is still in effect - it's never been repealed. What I am saying is if the exact same circuit was used there would be no need to re-apply. However if new roads were to be used, or even a different configuration of the old track, then a new act would be required.

The talk of a competitive Rally stage seems to be ill-advised and badly researched. The act is a matter of public record and if I can do the research then surely the proponents of this new event should have done the same before announcing something which is virtually impossible to deliver. I have seen the original comments and the organisers seem to think they can move the event to whatever roads they wish and that getting a new act would be 'no problem'.

Frankly if a new act is required don't expect anything for 2-3 years at the earliest.

I have been at a couple of BRC Live! events and in most recent times they were run at an Army Camp on the outskirts of Nuneaton, private roads, a completely different scenario from what is being proposed here.

This whole scheme is being advocated by Advantage West Midlands - a Quango - although it seems from what I have read and heard that they don't want to finance the event itself. AWM did ante-up for the councillors to go to the IOM - again a very different situation by the way as the Island has two major advaintages when staging motor racing events;

a) No speed limits outside of Douglas - not just 70 MPH - NO speed limits, fast as you like mate...
b) It has a Parliament on the Island which has powers of self- determination on the Road Traffic Act as it applies to the Island - hence a) above.

According to AWM they want "a world class event" to bring the "halo effect" to Birmingham and the region. With the greatest of respect to Mark Taylor and the British Rally Championship the series is far from that. Indeed there are those that would argue that, at present, it isn't even the best National Rally Championship in Britain.

Sadly I think our hopes have been raised only to be dashed. If Birmingham really want a world class event then they need to be talking to Promoters/organisers who have the relevant experience. Public/Private partnerships are an extremely specialised area. Given the shortcomings of the rally proposal it is clear that AWM and BRC don't have the required depth of knowledge and experience.

This is not me having a rant - I'm just tired of ill-informed talk about this event....I hope that Birmingham and AWM are serious about bringing "world class" motor sport back to the streets - I never got to see the Superprix and I'm so cheesed off I missed it!!!!

Maybe we should have Mark Taylor on the show in the coming weeks - I;ll see if we can set it up...

JH
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