FR at the age of 14??? - Page 2

John Clucas · 2 Jan 2003, 08:40 (Ref:461875)

The trouble is that most of the options are expensive. FA/FSA karting in Europe can easily cost as much as Junior FF Zetec (say £65k) - and certainly more than T cars, Zip or the BRDC championship (say £35k).
Personally I think FA karting is a waste of time/money if you have been successful at National level in a competitive class - TKM or ICA in the UK (or FA if you want the prestige). On paper T cars, Zip or the expecially the BRDC FF championship seem much better bets, but don't seem to produce the results - perhaps they aren't competitive enough.
Having raced against top FA karters for the last 2 years, I'd say FA is counterproductive if you are going into FF Zetec - the lack of grip has to be adjusted to. (the same applies to anything with a lot of grip - even JICA)
I'd spend the money on testing. First in something cheap, say FF1600 to get the hang of things, then in whatever I was targeting. It's much more impressive seemingly ariving from nowhere like Button, Hamilton and Green did than doing your learning in public - even if, as they did, you spend more on testing than you would have in your first year of racing.

superbird · 2 Jan 2003, 13:11 (Ref:461999)

I wonder if the Dolbys have sold their motorhome? That would probably pay for a season in T-Cars

JR Ewing · 3 Jan 2003, 09:03 (Ref:462550)

Quote:

Originally posted by superbird
I wonder if the Dolbys have sold their motorhome? That would probably pay for a season in T-Cars

Lol. Nice one!

Dauntless · 4 Jan 2003, 15:23 (Ref:463589)

I think you guys are forgetting how much pressure there is on the drivers in karts. Having been on both sides of the paddock (karts and formula cars), I don't see much difference in the "pressure" between them. In both arenas, the best drivers are pushing themselves and their cars to the limits, and parents and driver coaches are pushing the kids just as hard.

In fact, when my son jumped from shifter carts to Formula Atlantics, after his first session in the Ralt RT-41 he jumped out of the car, laughed, and said that it was like driving a big, heavy kart in slow motion. He still likes to drive the kart about every fortnight just to stay sharp.

Let's face it, those kids can adapt to cars a lot faster than we generally give them credit for!

String · 4 Jan 2003, 19:51 (Ref:463767)

Dauntless, can I ask if the RT-41 was an already sorted car for the track or did he alter it to suit him? And was there anyone else on the track in the same kind of car to give him an idea of the kind of pace he needed to run at?

Dauntless · 5 Jan 2003, 00:24 (Ref:464001)

The car was assembled and set up to the Ralt factory specs when we bought it. We got the Ralt manual with the car, with a suggested initial setup, so the car wasn't "evil", either. The setting was the test day for the 1998 Snowbird Double-National race in Phoenix, Arizona, and there were several other Atlantics present. He started on pole both races, and I think finished 2nd in the first, and won the second.

I think he ended up running about 59-flat at the event, and later held the track record at 56.8 (broken this past spring).

shurikus · 5 Jan 2003, 01:15 (Ref:464048)

in 2001 Mikhail Alyoshin, he was only 14 years old at that time, started for a first time in russian Formula 1600 championship race. his plans were to compete right from the 1st round of the championship, but judges don't allowed him to participed in 1st round, because he was only 13 y.o., when the championship started.
Mikhail finished that season 5th in overall standings.
in 2002 he moved to russian F3 championship, where he managed to finish the year in 4th spot - not bad at all for 15 years old boy

Russfeld · 5 Jan 2003, 01:20 (Ref:464054)

Didnt Scott Dixon win NZ Formula Vee at 13 and NZ or Oz FFord at like 15?

**ghinzani** · 5 Jan 2003, 12:05 (Ref:464354)

So what the youngest anyones raced a car then? I heard once that the Mexican Rodriguez brothers were 12.

String · 5 Jan 2003, 20:22 (Ref:464739)

Surely there is a point which the nappy these young lads are wearing, kind of dosen't help when it comes to the seat-of-the-pants driving!

And if this line of info gets these KIDS any younger, we are going to end up 'getting up half an our earlier before we go to bed to go to work!' (monty python scketch, if you are younger than 30, ask your dad!)

Mr Jinxx · 6 Jan 2003, 00:41 (Ref:464949)

I'm with young Mr Clucas here. Get into cars as soon as possible, and try and learn them out of the public eye. The Button Hamilton Green method of seeming to have just sat in a car for the first time does still woo people.

On the other hand, if you want to be an instant hit, you need age and confidence. Some people are old, some are brash and confident. Some are both and some are neither. G0d, I must lay off this vin rouge!! What I mean is that drivers will progress at their own rate, but if they have competed at top level karting, it may take them a few months to get used to top level cars. If they are more experieced in cars, but have not competed at top level before, it will take them longer to get that sort of confidence mind set. It comes, but it takes longer. That, in my view, is the only advantage in going the top level karting route.

String · 6 Jan 2003, 10:39 (Ref:465189)

But haven't many would be superstars also got stuck in karts? or just spent too long in them, so that when they make the move to cars it kills there carrea (Fullerton for instance)

**ghinzani** · 6 Jan 2003, 10:52 (Ref:465199)

Quote:

Originally posted by String
Surely there is a point which the nappy these young lads are wearing, kind of dosen't help when it comes to the seat-of-the-pants driving!

And if this line of info gets these KIDS any younger, we are going to end up 'getting up half an our earlier before we go to bed to go to work!' (monty python scketch, if you are younger than 30, ask your dad!)

We used to prepare our Formula Ford in hole int road - and pay driver fer privellege!!

DSM · 6 Jan 2003, 11:26 (Ref:465217)

....luxury!!

Russfeld · 6 Jan 2003, 14:56 (Ref:465349)

Is there much proof to the Hamilton/Green/Button pre-tests? Seems in some ways like sour grapes. I know Davidson was doing a lot of Ray testing and Kent(?) Fords before he went to haywood, but surely someone as hyped as Lewis Hamilton, if he were to test single seaters whilst karting, that'd have gotten out at some point.

String · 6 Jan 2003, 15:44 (Ref:465380)

Right!... we used to prepare our formula ford infront of circuit entrence and bribe our way in t'race. And we called it a formula ford, but it was just a peice of wood wi pram wheels and an elastic band for an engine... but it whara f ford to us!!!!

Mr Jinxx · 6 Jan 2003, 22:26 (Ref:465772)

I know of no proof, Russfeld, only what I have heard, in common with a lot of other people. Some testing I understand is done at lonely airfields in the south of England, and I understand other testing is possible abroad, for those with European connections. The proof of it I do not know. The wisdom of it, however, is indisputable in my book. It's a smart move if you can do it.

Lisboa · 6 Jan 2003, 23:18 (Ref:465827)

At 16 in F.3?? BIG MISTAKE! If you are a talented driver, the fisrt year you won some races in the second part of the champioship, and than in the second year you won a lot of races, you finish the championship in the top 3. And than? At 17 or 18 you think formula 1 will offer you a chance? My god....how many stupid manager are in motoracing?

littleman · 6 Jan 2003, 23:50 (Ref:465846)

Age alone isn't the only factor.Some drivers have a certain maturity when they are just 16 or 17 years of age whilst others don't 'tune-in' until they reach their twenties.Get them in a car as soon as possible to see what type they are.

Russfeld · 7 Jan 2003, 01:05 (Ref:465878)

How about just moving them up when they're ready instead of trying to breed Grand Prix drivers?

**ghinzani** · 7 Jan 2003, 02:21 (Ref:465901)

Eddie Cheever won F2 races and tested for Ferrari at 17/18.

Russfeld · 7 Jan 2003, 02:41 (Ref:465912)

And that was back in the days when young drivers were pretty rare, and test drivers even more so

String · 7 Jan 2003, 12:25 (Ref:466248)

Well I still think its a bad move, talent apart, its the maturity of the driver that will suffer, too much too soon, big head!

Real serious want to win stuff team managers, will go for maturity over age, but sometime throwing money at a team helps too! In which case is the team taking the youngster on for money or talent, and if its both, will the lad be able to handle being beaten, or develop an older head on young shoulders?

littleman · 7 Jan 2003, 21:03 (Ref:466665)

I don't know of one single team manager who would ever reject a fist full of dollars,whether attached to driving talent or not!Virtually every team will run two or more cars so providing you get a good guy in at least one machine then the other seats are available to the highest bidders.All the teams work on this simple principle.The most important factor for a young driver is the support he receives.He must work with people he can absolutely trust and who have his best interests at heart.Money is a vulgar commodity and can affect people in strange ways!There are plenty of people in the paddock who are only too keen to part son and wealthy father from their money.

**ghinzani** · 8 Jan 2003, 00:09 (Ref:466879)

We used to run this bloke called Thornton Mustard who was pretty rapid on his day, anyway he had paid for his son Alex to do some karting etc and then offered to pay for him to do a season of Formula Vauxhall jnr or Formula Ford if he wanted to. And the kid had the maturity to say to his dad that he didnt think he had either the talent or maturity to do the opportunity justice, so thanks but no thanks. You had to admire him for that, I think he was 17 maybe. ****ed the team owner off tho!!